Mormonism

[TOmNossor]

I guess I want to say two things.

The statement that men may become gods is not blasphemy in the Early Church, the Easter Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, and of course the CoJCoLDS.

When a LDS says that their purpose in life it to become a god, this may mean that they focus overly on the results of our growing love for God rather than the glory of growing that love. Because of this, I do not like the way HappyinHisgrace expressed this, but I still think she declares most christians heretical.



Now concerning faith and works:

Tom and fatboys are explaining well how these go together. What I want to add is that it was the reformists who first separated Justification and Sanctification in order to introduce the idea of Justification by Faith Alone. The Protestant who walks down the path of Justification AND Sanctification walks the same path as the Catholic who walks the Infused Righteousness path. R.C. Sproul speaks of double imputation where first our sins are imputed on Christ and then Christ’s righteousness is imputed upon us. This sounds very similar to infused righteousness. Most Protestants reject “easy believism,” but some groups embrace “by grace alone through faith alone,” and never invite Christ righteousness into their heart. It is impossible to truly walk with Christ without changing ones life through actions. Those who fall victim to the wrong understanding of “faith alone” have been confused by 15th century “reforms” that changed the way of viewing Justification and Sanctification to something new and different never before recorded in Christian circles. Fortunately few Protestants actually walk by “easy believism.”



Charity, TOm

 

[twhite982]

feo, de donde eres? Me aparece que hablas el Espanol por cause de tu nombre. Verdad? Digame si hablas el idioma de Dios.

Espanol es el idioma de Dios?

Pense ques eso fue ingles.

Hablo solamente un poquito de espanol, asi es muy apparamente que es solamente un poquitito.

Mi esposa es de Panama y cuando fui en el ejercito, la encontre y casemos. el demas (the rest ???) es historia.

Que te vayas con Dios, amigo.

Tom

 

[feo]

I guess I want to say two things.

The statement that men may become gods is not blasphemy in the Early Church, the Easter Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, and of course the CoJCoLDS.

Charity, TOm

I'm Not Quite Sure About the "Easter Orthodox Church" But i Was Raised Catholic, and Never do i Remember Them Preaching That i Would "become a God". if you Are referring to The Saints, Catholics do not Consider Them gods.

and when you Say The Early Church, When i Read About That in The NT- i Dont Recall Anything Dealing With "men becoming gods". point me in The Right Direction in Scripture.

 

[feo]

feo, de donde eres? Me aparece que hablas el Espanol por cause de tu nombre. Verdad? Digame si hablas el idioma de Dios.

ummm no Hablo un Espanol. donde es Arizona, USA

 

[rnmomof7]

feo, de donde eres? Me aparece que hablas el Espanol por cause de tu nombre. Verdad? Digame si hablas el idioma de Dios.

Los nombres no son confianza digna, cualquier persona pueden ser cualquier cosa que desean en el Internet. Un residente de San Diego puede ser fluido en español, y un mejicano en NY puede no ser

 

[Dark_Lite]

Since we're all jumping on the language train...

Yo avon oprelo múna gosonos lenu eso venlovà eçletra ti àyo liva.

Yep.

 

[Suzannah]

I guess I want to say two things.

The statement that men may become gods is not blasphemy in the Early Church, the Easter Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, and of course the CoJCoLDS.

When a LDS says that their purpose in life it to become a god, this may mean that they focus overly on the results of our growing love for God rather than the glory of growing that love. Because of this, I do not like the way HappyinHisgrace expressed this, but I still think she declares most christians heretical.



Now concerning faith and works:

Tom and fatboys are explaining well how these go together. What I want to add is that it was the reformists who first separated Justification and Sanctification in order to introduce the idea of Justification by Faith Alone. The Protestant who walks down the path of Justification AND Sanctification walks the same path as the Catholic who walks the Infused Righteousness path. R.C. Sproul speaks of double imputation where first our sins are imputed on Christ and then Christ’s righteousness is imputed upon us. This sounds very similar to infused righteousness. Most Protestants reject “easy believism,” but some groups embrace “by grace alone through faith alone,” and never invite Christ righteousness into their heart. It is impossible to truly walk with Christ without changing ones life through actions. Those who fall victim to the wrong understanding of “faith alone” have been confused by 15th century “reforms” that changed the way of viewing Justification and Sanctification to something new and different never before recorded in Christian circles. Fortunately few Protestants actually walk by “easy believism.”



Charity, TOm

Dear Tom,

I'm sorry to drag this thread back out of the closet. I was just perusing the area and found this. I must in all friendship, clarify this for your faithful readers. Neither the Early Church, Roman Catholic Church, nor the Orthodox teach that men become gods. I think you were referring to a doctrine of theosis which does not teach that men become gods. This is simply a misunderstanding. Theosis is a process of sanctification whereby human beings come into True Communion with God, and participate in a small way in HIS divinity. We do not become divine ourselves. For a full explanation of Theosis, as taught in Orthodoxy, please refer to the following objective article from an online Encyclopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis


From an Orthodox Bishop: The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware also discusses this theology.


Anyway, I did not want anyone to get confused and think that Catholicism or Orthodoxy, or the Early Church, taught that men become gods. It just isn't true. And it most certainly would be considered blasphemy by all of the same.

 

[rnmomof7]

Dear Tom,

I'm sorry to drag this thread back out of the closet. I was just perusing the area and found this. I must in all friendship, clarify this for your faithful readers. Neither the Early Church, Roman Catholic Church, nor the Orthodox teach that men become gods. I think you were referring to a doctrine of theosis which does not teach that men become gods. This is simply a misunderstanding. Theosis is a process of sanctification whereby human beings come into True Communion with God, and participate in a small way in HIS divinity. We do not become divine ourselves. For a full explanation of Theosis, as taught in Orthodoxy, please refer to the following objective article from an online Encyclopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis

From an Orthodox Bishop: The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware also discusses this theology.


Anyway, I did not want anyone to get confused and think that Catholicism or Orthodoxy, or the Early Church, taught that men become gods. It just isn't true. And it most certainly would be considered blasphemy by all of the same.

This is often said by Mormons to try to imply that their belief was a long standing position as seen in the EO

They misrepresent the idea of Theosis and bend it to support their doctrine

I do not believe this is the first time Tom has heard the explanation , but it fits the purpose for which it is repeated

 

[Krystina661]

Posting cause I want to subscribe to this thread.

 

[Suzannah]

This is often said by Mormons to try to imply that their belief was a long standing position as seen in the EO

They misrepresent the idea of Theosis and bend it to support their doctrine

I do not believe this is the first time Tom has heard the explanation , but it fits the purpose for which it is repeated

Ahh. I see. Well, I guess I ought to come back here more often and make sure that my faith is not being slandered and misrepresented.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Ahh. I see. Well, I guess I ought to come back here more often and make sure that my faith is not being slandered and misrepresented.

That would be wonderful and appreciated. There are a few LDS on this section of the forum that have repeatedly stated that the early Church believed that man can become Gods. They have told been told over and over that they are stating incorrectly the teachings of the early church and they have been given articles and explanations on the subject but continue to state that the early church did believe and teach that man can become Gods. I would love to read your interaction with folks on this subject so I will stay tuned to this thread.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[Suzannah]

That would be wonderful and appreciated. There are a few LDS on this section of the forum that have repeatedly stated that the early Church believed that man can become Gods. They have told been told over and over that they are stating incorrectly the teachings of the early church and they have been given articles and explanations on the subject but continue to state that the early church did believe and teach that man can become Gods. I would love to read your interaction with folks on this subject so I will stay tuned to this thread.

God Bless,
Grace

Dear Grace,

I certainly will "stay tuned" also. :o I could not believe my eyes!
I will post as the issue comes up, but if it comes up and I don't respond, pm me will you?

For everyone else: THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE EARLY FATHERS NEVER TAUGHT THAT MEN BECOME GODS.

To the LDS: Please stop saying that. It is not true.


Anyone is welcome to send me questions if they have any issues at all with the Eastern Orthodox Faith.

 

[skylark1]

Dear Tom,

I'm sorry to drag this thread back out of the closet. I was just perusing the area and found this. I must in all friendship, clarify this for your faithful readers. Neither the Early Church, Roman Catholic Church, nor the Orthodox teach that men become gods. I think you were referring to a doctrine of theosis which does not teach that men become gods. This is simply a misunderstanding. Theosis is a process of sanctification whereby human beings come into True Communion with God, and participate in a small way in HIS divinity. We do not become divine ourselves. For a full explanation of Theosis, as taught in Orthodoxy, please refer to the following objective article from an online Encyclopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis


From an Orthodox Bishop: The Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware also discusses this theology.


Anyway, I did not want anyone to get confused and think that Catholicism or Orthodoxy, or the Early Church, taught that men become gods. It just isn't true. And it most certainly would be considered blasphemy by all of the same.

Suzannah,

Thank you for posting this. I also have read claims by LDS that Eastern Orthodox teaches theosis, which was defined by them (LDS) as man becoming a god.

In my opinion, these portions from the posted link clearly explain the Orthodox belief. Man becoming godly, rather than man becoming a god.

Theosis, deification, or divinization, is an analogue to the Western Christian doctrine of sanctification, developed in Eastern Orthodoxy, especially in the hesychast tradition. According to this teaching, Man is to become holy, godly, united with God as completely as it is possible for a created being to do so, and in that sense, in this life but consummately in the resurrection at the end of the world, the nature of God is to become united with the nature of Man.

...............................

The crucial Orthodox assertion, that God is One, sets an absolute limit on the meaning of theosis - it is not possible for any created being to become, ontologically, God or, another god. Rather, by deification is meant that, God causes Man to be in creaturely form everything that God is: that is, in terms of knowledge of the truth, in wisdom and in holiness, in all the energies of God.




​

 

[Suzannah]

Skylark! Thank you so much for reading the article at the link. Yes, you are absolutely right. Sometimes, "east" does not meet "west" very well and we are sometimes talking about two entirely different things.

There were Gnostic heretics who attempted to present the idea that man could become "gods" however, the Eastern Orthodox churches pronounced various Anathemas upon them. They were ex-communicated for this teaching. The Holy Orthodox Church has never taught deification of man and never will. And I will add: Anathema to those who teach it!

 

[emerald Dragon]

Hey, so I live in the Mormon capital of the world and all my family is Mormon besides my mom and I. I wanna know how you would go about telling them the true story about Christ and stuff. I mean they just don't want to hear it espicially that they dont have to do good works to get to heaven. I need help thanks.

Doesn't the true story of Christ match what you view,and what they view? Why are you so worried?

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[emerald Dragon]

Yeah, thats right. You just work your way right on up there to heaven. What was it again that Jesus called the pharisees who thought the same thing? If you can work to get there, Jesus died for nothing. I for one will accept what He has already done for me and then do my works in my gratitude for his boundless love and mercy. I deserve nothing but death and hell but have been given life in Heaven with the one Holy God of the universe. I could NEVER have earned such a thing but my gratitude will be shown in how I now live my life.

Talk about sarcasm! Is there a way of posting things without getting mean? We didn't insult or harm you, so why so you do it?

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[rnmomof7]

Doesn't the true story of Christ match what you view,and what they view? Why are you so worried?

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

Sorry E-D, it is not even in the ball park .

That has been explained to you many times but you do not seem to hear it .

 

[ChoirDir]

Historically, The Book of Mormon is not supported by any archaeological evidence and has no correspondence to what is known of pre-Columbian civilizations. Mormon adherents seem untroubled by this fact, relieving that it's "just a matter of time" before such evidence is uncovered. Their claim that the American Indians are descendants of the Lamaniles is likewise unfoundecl; they are of Mongolian stock, not Semitic.

Any comments?

 

[feo]

of Course There Are no Comments About The Lack of *evidence* Supporting the Book of Mormon. Thats one of The Reasons Why i Believe Mormons Will Not Disclose Their Tithing exenditures... is because i Think They invest HEAVILY in finding evidence... and They're Ashamed to show The Failures of all The Archiological diggin Goin on.

 

[Rescued One]

Doesn't the true story of Christ match what you view,and what they view? Why are you so worried?

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

Worried? Wanting to lead someone to Christ isn't a sign of worry, it's a sign of caring.