LDS Mormonism is an enemy of the Cross and therefore not Christian

[Sophrosyne]

I'm not sure the relevance of this question....

Therein lies the problem.

 

[Ironhold]

So -

Does wearing a cross, in and of itself, make one a Christian?

If so, then I'd like people to take a good, hard look at this picture.

This is a photo I took a few years ago. To the left is a bracelet with Virgin Mary iconography. To the right is a wooden cross with beads.

Those capsules above them are the ones they were in when I got them out of the vending machine.

Yes folks, you read that right: I got religious icons out of a vending machine. $0.50 US apiece. Made cheaply to be sold cheaply. I've got a third wooden cross next to me; this one is smaller and so was a mere $0.25 out of the machine.

To me folks, that is blasphemous, as it represents what should be holy icons reduced to mere trinkets.

Yet by the logic expressed in this very thread, all I'd have to do is strap them on one day and I'd be a "proper" Christian. A few pennies' worth of cheap wood and string, and I've got a one-way ticket to Heaven just for wearing them around.

Tell me - how much Jesus kitsch must one own to be guaranteed salvation? The Jesus on the Crucifix night light? The Victory in Jesus toy monster truck with the gold chrome highlights? The Jesus is Lord pocket fan? I've seen all three - and others - in stores in my area. In fact, a local "everything's a dollar plus" had a lengthy section of a wall display permanently devoted to Jesus is Lord merchandise, including disc launchers and notepads. Would purchasing one of each put someone ahead of the Pope in line to Heaven? (Said store has since gone out of business, BTW.)

Anyone can drop a quarter or two in a machine and get a token these days.

Not everyone can prove that they actually do walk with Christ.

That's why I regard statements like the OP as completely missing the point, straining at gnats while swallowing camels and all.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm going to focus on most important points here, rather than replying to all.

And all of those crosses will not save you.

I never said those crosses will save anyone. But the PREACHING of the cross will. That's why it's such an important symbol. That's what this verse is saying:
I Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

You know what won't save anybody at all? The preaching of: Moroni, beehives, compass and square, sun moon and stars, pentagrams and inverted pentagrams. The preaching of the messages of those symbols cannot save anybody at all. But you are content with the outward display of those things of which the message is spiritual garbage and you say you want the cross to be kept "inward". Why is that?

If is Christ's sacrifice which saves us. Yes, it was on the cross, and the cross symbolizes it. But it is the actual sacrifice which saves you, not the symbol of it.

That's right. And that's why as symbols go the cross is the central symbol of the Christian faith. The symbol won't save anyone but it is a symbol of the Gospel that does save anyone. That being the case, why is this symbol shunned by mormons while mormons are happy to proudly and ubiquitously display all sorts of other symbols? Why is there an angel Moroni on every temple instead of a cross? Is the angel Moroni a more important symbol than the cross to mormons? Clearly, it is. Why? Clearly, the message of Moroni is more important to mormons than the message of the cross.

Why are you so focused on outward display? That's not how God looks on things (1 Samuel 16:7).

The outward display of the cross is not for God to see, it is for those who need Christ to see. It is a proclamation to those who see it of the power of the Gospel message. I Samuel 16:7 has nothing to do with it. I Samuel 16:7 has to do with how we should view people as God views people. Displaying the Cross is proclaiming the Gospel message. It is part of preaching of the cross as mentioned in I Cor. 1:18. Christ commanded us to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world. Paul wrote in God's Word that the preaching of the cross is the power of God to those of us who are being saved.

So why does the mormon religion shun the symbol of the cross while embracing many, many other symbols? Why do you believe the compass and square are more powerful symbols to the point that they are put on the magic underwear of the Temple mormons? What is the message of the compass and square that it is greater than the message of the cross?

 

[Ironhold]

So why does the mormon religion shun the symbol of the cross while embracing many, many other symbols?

Who says we shun it?

Nobody's stopping anyone who is LDS from going out and getting one.

In fact, if you'll read my post above, you'll see that I have a few of my own courtesy of some local vending machines.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I never said those crosses will save anyone. But the PREACHING of the cross will.

Your OP says nothing about preaching the cross. Your OP and subsequent posts are about putting cross iconography on everything.

You know what won't save anybody at all? The preaching of: Moroni, beehives, compass and square, sun moon and stars, pentagrams and inverted pentagrams. The preaching of the messages of those symbols cannot save anybody at all. But you are content with the outward display of those things of which the message is spiritual garbage and you say you want the cross to be kept "inward". Why is that?

That's right. And that's why as symbols go the cross is the central symbol of the Christian faith. The symbol won't save anyone but it is a symbol of the Gospel that does save anyone. That being the case, why is this symbol shunned by mormons while mormons are happy to proudly and ubiquitously display all sorts of other symbols? Why is there an angel Moroni on every temple instead of a cross? Is the angel Moroni a more important symbol than the cross to mormons? Clearly, it is. Why? Clearly, the message of Moroni is more important to mormons than the message of the cross.

All of this is not related to your OP.

I Samuel 16:7 has nothing to do with it. I Samuel 16:7 has to do with how we should view people as God views people. .

Yes, which you are clearly not doing. Your entire title and OP is based around judging by the outward appearance.

Displaying the Cross is proclaiming the Gospel message. It is part of preaching of the cross as mentioned in I Cor. 1:18. Christ commanded us to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world. Paul wrote in God's Word that the preaching of the cross is the power of God to those of us who are being saved.

So why does the mormon religion shun the symbol of the cross while embracing many, many other symbols? Why do you believe the compass and square are more powerful symbols to the point that they are put on the magic underwear of the Temple mormons? What is the message of the compass and square that it is greater than the message of the cross?

Again, al of this is not part of your OP.

Now, since your OP is that the symbol of the cross makes one a Christian, if I spray paint a cross on my dog, does that make my dog a Christian?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

So -

Does wearing a cross, in and of itself, make one a Christian?

No, and nobody said or is saying that it does, so why are you asking? Why are you bringing up something that nobody has said? To confound the actual topic?

If so, then I'd like people to take a good, hard look at this picture.

This is a photo I took a few years ago. To the left is a bracelet with Virgin Mary iconography. To the right is a wooden cross with beads.

Those capsules above them are the ones they were in when I got them out of the vending machine.

Yes folks, you read that right: I got religious icons out of a vending machine. $0.50 US apiece. Made cheaply to be sold cheaply. I've got a third wooden cross next to me; this one is smaller and so was a mere $0.25 out of the machine.

To me folks, that is blasphemous, as it represents what should be holy icons reduced to mere trinkets.

For starters, it doesn't matter whether a cross is made of the cheapest plastic or the finest gold encrusted with diamonds. It doesn't matter whether it is worth a penny or a million bucks. It is the symbol of it that is precious to believers.

Second, no matter how cheap or expensive it is, it can be a properly used symbol or one that is improperly used. It can be seen as the symbol of the Gospel message or it can be seen as something with magical powers which it doesn't have. How a person views it is on that person. But in Christianity the cross is a symbol of the power of the Gospel of Christ. It's not the material or object itself, it's the message that the symbol stands for.

You can buy a Bible in just about any dollar store. It will be cheap (a dollar), cheaply made in most cases, but it is a Bible nonetheless. In that cheap, dollar Bible is the same powerful message you will find in an expensive, leather-bound Bible. It really doesn't matter what the Bible is made of - the message inside is the same and just as powerful. And it is the same with a symbol like a cross - the message does not change. And yes, someone can buy a bunch of dollar store Bibles because they are cheap and take them home and use them by stacking them up to replace a leg on their chair, but that doesn't cheapen the message of the Bible because someone is misusing it. And, to be honest, if someone uses the materials of the dollar-store Bible, it doesn't hurt God anyway - it is just paper with ink. The power isn't in the item itself but in the message contained in that item. Same with the cross - it is the message of the cross that is powerful, not the material make-up of the cross.

But, since you are so appalled that such items are sold cheaply, how do you feel about the trinkets on a website like this:
https://ldsjewelry.com

Look up the "My Eternal Family" silicone ring - it is only $0.20!!!! That's cheaper than your vending machine crosses and beads!!! How can this holy icon be reduced to a cheap trinket by the Mormons!!! A "My Eternal Family" ring should be made of the finest gold and gemstones!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

Yet by the logic expressed in this very thread, all I'd have to do is strap them on one day and I'd be a "proper" Christian. A few pennies' worth of cheap wood and string, and I've got a one-way ticket to Heaven just for wearing them around.

Tell me - how much Jesus kitsch must one own to be guaranteed salvation? The Jesus on the Crucifix night light? The Victory in Jesus toy monster truck with the gold chrome highlights? The Jesus is Lord pocket fan? I've seen all three - and others - in stores in my area. In fact, a local "everything's a dollar plus" had a lengthy section of a wall display permanently devoted to Jesus is Lord merchandise, including disc launchers and notepads. Would purchasing one of each put someone ahead of the Pope in line to Heaven? (Said store has since gone out of business, BTW.)

Where do you see that logic? Where did anyone say you have to "strap them on one day and [you'd] be a "proper" Christian"??? You are making up garbage now.

Looking at https://ldsjewelry.com it's clear that symbols are very, very important to Mormons. Click on "Jewelry" and you will find 35 web pages of jewelry alone. Many, many different symbols and messages and abbreviations of meaning to mormons... Tons of CTR stuff, pages of it. Angel Moronis. Starstone. And do a search for "star" and 37 items come up!!!! Including inverted pentagrams!!! Inverted Pentagrams with "CTR" in them even!!

Clearly the mormons love their kitsch and jewelry and symbols and "CTR" and their stars! But do a search for "cross" and only one result comes up - and it's for a "crossover CTR ring", not for a cross, but a ring that has a crossover design where the "CTR" initials are.

So stars are important symbols, CTR is an important symbol, but crosses? Nah. Crosses are unimportant to mormons - the message of the stars and CTR are far, far more important to mormons.

By the way, you'll be happy to know that the Joseph Smith ring is now on sale for only $1,063.95!!!!

Tell me, how much mormon kitsch must one own to be guaranteed a planet of his own with a ton of wives and eternal sex? The 100's of CTR rings? The Hold To The Rod keyring? The I Know the Scriptures are True zipper pull? The Silver Angel Moroni oil vial? I've seen all these - and others - just in the website that I posted here. Google search and you'll find tons more LDS online bookstores selling their cheap trinkets of every symbol EXCEPT crosses. Not a one with a cross. Would purchasing one of each mormon trinket (no crosses) put someone ahead of Joseph Smith in his celestial kingdom to bed his wives???

Just curious - is anything in that online mormon jewelry store "blasphemous" to you? (Said store is still in business, BTW, apparently doing a good business of selling trinkets and symbols to mormons since they obviously love them so much - well, all symbols except their enemy, the cross, anyway.)

Anyone can drop a quarter or two in a machine and get a token these days.

Or drop 20 cents on a cheap mormon trinket online, too.

Not everyone can prove that they actually do walk with Christ.

That's why I regard statements like the OP as completely missing the point, straining at gnats while swallowing camels and all.

What in the OP "completely miss[ed] the point"? So far you haven't addressed the OP - you fabricated a point that nobody made and argued that point. Talk about straining at gnats - at least gnats exist, you're straining at your own fables.

If you want to argue against the OP then please do so. Nowhere in the OP did I say that crosses save or that wearing and displaying crosses save. What I DID say was that the central message of Christianity is the message of the cross and that it is natural that Christians will display or wear or use crosses since it is the central symbol of Christianity. I went on to say that the Mormons eschew and shun the cross which is odd since it is the central symbol of Christianity and mormons claim to be Christians. I went on further to point out that Mormons do love their symbols (and the website I posted in this response to you helps prove that) and their symbols include many things, including occultic things, but do NOT include the cross of Christ.

Argue that if you want, but don't make up straw man arguments that nobody made.

 

[John Davidson]

One of the central tenets in Christianity is Christ's atonement on the Cross. In this, Christ redeemed us even though none of us deserve it, plus He claimed victory over sin and death. The Cross is the symbol of the power that lies behind Christianity.

In the Mormon religion, they are gravely set against the Cross.

You clearly have no clue what Mormons believe.

The atonement is the central tenent of Mormonism.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Your OP says nothing about preaching the cross. Your OP and subsequent posts are about putting cross iconography on everything.

My OP quotes I Cor. 1:18 which talks about the preaching of the cross being foolishness to them that perish but to those of us being saved it is the power of God.

Cross iconography is a form of preaching the message of the cross. It proclaims that the cross has a powerful and important message. By displaying a cross you are making a statement that you believe in the message of that symbol.

All of this is not related to your OP.

How so?

Yes, which you are clearly not doing. Your entire title and OP is based around judging by the outward appearance.

Wrong. My OP is not about judging a person by his or her appearance, which is what I Samuel is about. My OP is about judging a religion by their message. The symbols a religion uses are a form of their proclaiming their message. Mormonism does not ever use a cross as a symbol while they use many, many other symbols. This is a message they are sending about their beliefs. They believe that the message behind these other symbols is worth proclaiming but the message behind the cross is not worth proclaiming. My OP is about the fact that the outward appearance of the Mormon religion is the direct result of their inward beliefs. I Samuel has to do with judging people, not a religion.

Again, al of this is not part of your OP.

Again, it is.

Now, since your OP is that the symbol of the cross makes one a Christian, if I spray paint a cross on my dog, does that make my dog a Christian?

My OP is not that the symbol of the cross makes one a Christian. My OP is that a Christian would not shun the cross the way the mormons do.

If I spray paint "CTR" or "Health in the navel, marrow in the bones" on a pig does that make the pig a Mormon?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You clearly have no clue what Mormons believe.

The atonement is the central tenant of Mormonism.

First of all, it's "tenet", not "tenant".

Second, I know what Mormons believe. The atonement to them was not accomplished on the cross but more so in the Garden of Gethsemane. Also, the mormons don't believe in salvation by grace through faith. They believe that one must earn as much of his salvation as he can and then Christ will help with the rest. They don't believe that salvation can only be through Christ alone but rather through Christ PLUS their own works. They believe that salvation is not for all sinners but only for those who reach a level of worthiness.

Do your homework before you make claims.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Who says we shun it?

Nobody's stopping anyone who is LDS from going out and getting one.

The Mormon religion shuns it and that's why there are no crosses anywhere in the mormon church. If some individual mormon gets one they are doing something that their own religion does not do.

In fact, if you'll read my post above, you'll see that I have a few of my own courtesy of some local vending machines.

So after whining that it is BLASPHEMY to get a "Holy Icon" so cheaply and made of such cheap materials you now present those same "trinkets" that you called blasphemous before as evidence that the cross has some kind of serious religious meaning to you? Seriously? Which is it? Are you blasphemous for getting those cheap trinkets or were you wrong earlier for saying that they are cheap trinkets and are "BLASPHEMY"?

 

[John Davidson]

The atonement to them was not accomplished on the cross but more so in the Garden of Gethsemane.

That's a flat out lie and you know it.

While they do believe that the atonement began in the garden the cross is clearly the culmination.

Also, the mormons don't believe in salvation by grace through faith. They believe that one must earn as much of his salvation as he can and then Christ will help with the rest. They don't believe that salvation can only be through Christ alone but rather through Christ PLUS their own works. They believe that salvation is not for all sinners but only for those who reach a level of worthiness.

This is somewhat true.

Do your homework before you make claims.

I have as I'm an exmormon. I have been studying Mormonism in depth for years.

 

[Sophrosyne]

First of all, it's "tenet", not "tenant".

Second, I know what Mormons believe. The atonement to them was not accomplished on the cross but more so in the Garden of Gethsemane. Also, the mormons don't believe in salvation by grace through faith. They believe that one must earn as much of his salvation as he can and then Christ will help with the rest. They don't believe that salvation can only be through Christ alone but rather through Christ PLUS their own works. They believe that salvation is not for all sinners but only for those who reach a level of worthiness.

Do your homework before you make claims.

Actually you have that backwards IMO... it isn't Christ PLUS their own works but... their own works PLUS Christ as works to them are more important than preaching CHRIST crucified (the cross). Christians are saved FIRST then works come.... while mormons don't seem to feel saved till they get their quota of works done. I often wonder how many of them feel they need to rack up more works before the guilt that keeps them inline goes dormant.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Actually you have that backwards IMO... it isn't Christ PLUS their own works but... their own works PLUS Christ as works to them are more important than preaching CHRIST crucified (the cross). Christians are saved FIRST then works come.... while mormons don't seem to feel saved till they get their quota of works done. I often wonder how many of them feel they need to rack up more works before the guilt that keeps them inline goes dormant.

You're right - I said it that way in my previous sentence when I said it was all they could do "and then Christ will help with the rest". Either way, it's a team effort in their doctrine instead of just Christ's redemption.

I wonder why it is that they are adamant about how someone has to earn part of his salvation by being "worthy" but on the other hand claim the cross is important to them and then they flip back to never displaying a cross within their religion. I can only think it's because they want to stick to their beliefs but at the same time be accepted as "Christian" by Christians.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You're right - I said it that way in my previous sentence when I said it was all they could do "and then Christ will help with the rest". Either way, it's a team effort in their doctrine instead of just Christ's redemption.

I wonder why it is that they are adamant about how someone has to earn part of his salvation by being "worthy" but on the other hand claim the cross is important to them and then they flip back to never displaying a cross within their religion. I can only think it's because they want to stick to their beliefs but at the same time be accepted as "Christian" by Christians.

I don't know about you but "all you can do" equals to me any slacking off means you aren't saved. I can't see how anyone in their right mind can adhere to this thinking that they are ever saved because they will always miss doing something that they could do in fact most people can do much much more so does that make most mormons unsaved because they are NOT doing "all they can do" and Jesus is not going to make up for all they should have done and didn't. Like I hinted earlier on the cross Jesus said the opposite of "do all you can do" to be saved.

 

[mmksparbud]

hhhmmmm----you will seldom see a cross in any of our churches and we certainly do not wear them. We shy away from ANY symbols. Occasionally you will see one. It is for us, to steer away from anything that might be worshipped in place of God, thus becoming a graven image. It is not the object that saves, but Jesus. That said, we place a great deal of importance to the suffering of Christ on the cross. Yes, it started at Gethsemane, the decision to go ahead with going to the cross was made there, and it caused so much anguish that He sweated blood. But to make it the point of the most intense suffering as opposed to what He had to go through afterwards, seems very odd, indeed. The reason it was so agonizing is because He knew what came next. Not only because He knew the predictions, but crucifixion was prevalent and seen by many and I've no doubt He had encountered a few Himself. To think that the decision to go ahead was worse than the actual occurrence seems unrealistic, at best. Being spat upon, whipped (there were pieces of metal in the whip) a crown of thorns driven into your head, being in so much pain and being too weak to carry a heavy cross, the pictures of Him on a cross are reverently done with a loin cloth discreetly placed. There was no such consideration for those crucified, it was done naked. And the actual crucifixion itself, was done to bring upon the utmost pain at every second on it and was intended to last many hours. Not to mention the fact that He had the torture of God having to withdraw as all sins were heaped upon Him and He becoming sin, and Jesus, even in His condition, to utter "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" How that can take 2nd place to Gethsemane is absurd.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Where do you see that logic? Where did anyone say you have to "strap them on one day and [you'd] be a "proper" Christian"??? You are making up garbage now.

Your critique in this thread is that Mormons are enemies of the cross and not Christian.

It is therefore very logical to ask "If I put on a cross bracket, does that make me a proper Christian".

 

[Jane_Doe]

My OP quotes I Cor. 1:18 which talks about the preaching of the cross being foolishness to them that perish but to those of us being saved it is the power of God.

Yes, you quote that verse... and then talked about jewelry and steeples, not preaching. When I talked about taking on the cross inwardly (aka hearing the preached message) you told me I was hijacking your thread.

How so?

It is not part of your OP. Simple as that.

Wrong. My OP is not about judging a person by his or her appearance, which is what I Samuel is about.

Judging a person by their appearance is the EXACT topic of this thread: you are judging whether or not a person is a disciple of Christ based on their... jewelry.

My OP is about judging a religion by their message.

Again, you didn't talk about the message at all, just that you disliked people's jewelry and building ordination. Me talking about the LDS-Christian message of taking the cross upon us inwardly was thread "hijacking".

If I spray paint "CTR" or "Health in the navel, marrow in the bones" on a pig does that make the pig a Mormon?

Nope. LDS don't believe that symbols make a person one thing or another.

But according to you, my spray painted dog would be proudly proclaiming the Christian message.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Second, I know what Mormons believe. The atonement to them was not accomplished on the cross but more so in the Garden of Gethsemane. Also, the mormons don't believe in salvation by grace through faith. They believe that one must earn as much of his salvation as he can and then Christ will help with the rest. They don't believe that salvation can only be through Christ alone but rather through Christ PLUS their own works. They believe that salvation is not for all sinners but only for those who reach a level of worthiness.

You say that your know what Mormons believe. And then promptly demonstrate how you do NOT understand LDS beliefs.

 

[Ironhold]

Your critique in this thread is that Mormons are enemies of the cross and not Christian.

It is therefore very logical to ask "If I put on a cross bracket, does that make me a proper Christian".

Quoted for truth.

The entire OP is arguing "You do not display crosses, therefore you are not a 'true' Christian."

Thus, that raises the question: "If a person does display a cross, are they automatically a 'true' Christian regardless of beliefs?". I'm trying to figure out where this is on the sliding scale concerning whether or not one is or isn't a 'true' Christian.

As far as the LDS kitsch goes, I don't do a lot of that, either. I have a few tie tacks I received as gifts, but that's about it.

 

[withwonderingawe]

This is an article from the Deseret News, 2009 . Michael G. Reed is the son of a friend of mine.

Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross

In 1916 a church asked the Salt Lake City Council to allow them to build a huge cross, "the symbol of Christianity," on Ensign Peak. "We would like to construct it of cement, re-enforced with steel, of sufficient dimensions that it can be readily seen from every part of the city," the request read.

That request came from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The cross was to honor the Mormon pioneers.

Even though the proposal was approved by the City Council, the monument was never built.

Today, there are no crosses on Mormon temples. Yet two are shaped like a cross. Mormon chapels do not have crosses, either. But many have prints of the crucifixion hanging on their walls. Michael G. Reed, who has a bachelor of arts in humanities and religious studies and a master of art in liberal arts from California State University, Sacramento, explored at a recent Sunstone Symposium what he called, in rather charged language, the "LDS Contempt for the Christian Symbol."

Reed also uses the word "contempt" for how Protestants feel about the cross — 19th-century Protestants, that is. It turns out that cross "aversion" was a Protestant pastime in times past. Its source was anti-Catholicism. Reed quoted historian Ryan K. Smith, who said that from 1820 to 1850 the number of Catholics in the United States grew from about 195,000 members to 1.75 million members, the largest religious body in the nation. And Catholics used crosses.

And so the Protestants didn't. "To Protestant Americans, the cross was perceived to be a strictly Catholic symbol," Reed said.

So the Mormons got their "opposition" to the cross from the Protestants?

Not so fast, according to Reed. Mormons did not pick up their feelings about the cross from the Protestants. At least not entirely.

"While searching for evidence to support the assumption that early Saints had initially rejected the symbol of the cross, I couldn't find any," Reed said.

As a church of converts from other churches, it shouldn't be surprising if some attitudes crept into Latter-day Saints' attitudes. But Reed couldn't find any hints of the Protestant cross attitudes until around 1877. By that time, Protestants had already begun adopting the cross as their own symbol.

Instead, Reed found the cross all over Mormondom. It appeared as jewelry on Brigham Young's wives and daughters. It appeared in floral arrangements in funerals. It appeared as tie tacks on men's ties and watch fobs on men's vests. It appeared on cattle as the official LDS Church brand. Crosses were on church windows, attic vents, stained-glass windows and pulpits. They were on gravestones and quilts.

Even two temples, the Hawaiian and the Cardston, Alberta Temple were described in a 1923 general conference as being built in the shape of a cross. Reed said the cross "taboo" was grass roots and began around the turn of the 20th century.

In 1916, when LDS Church Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley asked the Salt Lake City Council to approve the church's plan to erect a large cross to honor the pioneers, he didn't anticipate any opposition. He was, according to Reed, "quickly criticized, and even accused of succumbing to Catholic agenda."

Anti-Catholic feelings quashed the effort.

Mormon missionary work in predominantly Catholic countries "was very challenging," Reed said. Mexican (and presumably Catholic) revolutionaries had executed a Mormon branch president and his cousin the year before. The two were told before they were shot, "If you will renounce your religion and confess before the Virgin Mary, we will spare your lives."

"As a result of conflicts with Catholics abroad such as this, smaller conflicts with Catholics in Utah had a tendency to get blown to greater proportions," Reed said.

Just two weeks before the LDS Church's cross proposal, Catholic Bishop Joseph S. Glass complained about Mormons dancing on Good Friday. He decried a "city of unbelievers" and called upon others to protest. "Are there not enough Christians in Salt Lake City to command some kind of general respect for the holiest day of the year?"

Reed said Bishop Glass' protest offended Mormons, who traditionally did not observe Good Friday. Non-Mormons also thought it was "arrogant" for the bishop to "impose his religious convictions upon others."

This controversy was "fresh on the minds of many Utah citizens who opposed the 1916 Ensign Peak proposal," Reed said.

Plans for a monument on Ensign Peak were reluctantly set aside for almost two decades. But it was only a year later, on July 24, 1917, that a This Is the Place monument in the shape of a cross was erected at the mouth of Emigration Canyon.

For 40 more years the symbol of the cross continued to polarize Latter-day Saints. "While some rejected the symbol," Reed said, "others continued to embrace it."

In 1957, a jewelry store in Salt Lake City advertised cross jewelry for girls. LDS Church Presiding Bishop Joseph L. Wirthlin called President David O. McKay to see if it was proper for LDS girls to purchase the crosses to wear.

Reed believes that President McKay "institutionalized" the LDS Church's feelings toward the symbol in his reply. President McKay expressed two reasons why he didn't think it was a good idea.

He told Bishop Wirthlin that the crosses were "purely Catholic and Latter-day Saint girls should not purchase and wear them. ... Our worship should be in our hearts."

According to Reed's reading of Gregory Prince and Wm. Robert Wright's book "David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism," President McKay had developed some critical attitudes toward the Catholic Church when he served in the 1920s as president of the LDS Church's European Mission.

These attitudes ended when Catholic Bishop Duane Hunt met with President McKay about an LDS author's book that was highly critical of Catholics. President McKay began to "privately re-examine his own beliefs" about Catholicism, according to Reed.

Reed said that members of the LDS Church have rid themselves of "much of the anti-Catholic ideas of the past."

But even when the use of the cross is divorced from anti-Catholicism, Mormons, as a whole, still do not generally use the cross as an outward symbol of their faith.

In 1975, President Gordon B. Hinckley, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, spoke in general conference about the symbol of the cross. He recognized and respected how other churches view the symbol, and said, "But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ."

"Contempt." "Aversion." "Opposition." "Taboo." Reed struggled throughout his presentation to find the right word to describe how Mormons feel about using the cross as a symbol. In a recent telephone interview, Robert A. Rees, an LDS scholar (and the "response" to Reed's presentation at the Sunstone Symposium), used the word "ambivalence" to describe Mormons' feelings toward using the cross as a symbol.

Not hostility, but a shifting ambivalence.

The attitude of Mormons toward the cross has changed over the years. Members of the LDS Church did not accept the 19th-century Protestant prejudice against the cross. Over time, some embraced the cross as a symbol and others avoided its use. Some even used it as a way to denigrate the Catholic Church.

Today members of the LDS Church concentrate on the body and blood of Christ more than the nails and wood. The cross may not be used as a special outward symbol any more than the crown of thorns, the whip and the spear, but thoughts of the cross and what it represents still cause Latter-day Saints to stand all amazed.