LDS Mormonism is an enemy of the Cross and therefore not Christian

[Peter1000]

The little-to-no emphasis on the cross in the lds church, IMO, is due to the teaching that Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane rather than on the cross.

https://www.lds.org/manual/new-test...-suffers-in-the-garden-of-gethsemane?lang=eng

He was suffering for all of our sins so that we can be forgiven if we repent.

When I was young, I asked my father why those some churches have crosses on them, but ours do not. He told me that Mormons focus more on the garden of Gethsemane as the place where Jesus suffered for our sins.

I feel that the suffering started in Gethsemane, but obviously continued on the cross.

Mormons focus too, on the resurrection, that Christ is risen from the dead, rather than on the weapon used by the Romans to kill Jesus.

The cross is a powerful symbol, that we do revere, but is not a symbol that has saving power, so we focus on the total atonement and resurrection event.

 

[Peter1000]

Latter Day Saints.
You think a 'mere human' can be the Word of God, like the Jehova's Witnesses do. (correct me if i'm wrong)

In order for Jesus to raise himself from the dead and save us from our sins, he had to be more than a "mere human". Jesus had to be fully human, but also fully God.

 

[Peter1000]

One of the central tenets in Christianity is Christ's atonement on the Cross. In this, Christ redeemed us even though none of us deserve it, plus He claimed victory over sin and death. The Cross is the symbol of the power that lies behind Christianity.

That's why Paul talked about it the way he did:
Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And perhaps the most powerful statement:
I Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Paul also warns of that there are enemies of the Cross:
Phillipians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

In the Mormon religion, they are gravely set against the Cross. You will not see a cross in ANY Mormon buildings or publications. When you ask them, they say something like, "Well if someone you loved was shot to death, would you have a symbol of a gun on your necklace or in a picture?" That explanation makes it clear that they have no comprehension of the power of Christ through the Cross. It makes it clear that they are diametrically opposed to what Paul thought and taught about the Cross. It makes it clear that they are clearly against what all the rest of Christianity accepts about the Cross.

Furthermore, while they are careful to shun the Cross of Christ, they do enjoy embellishing their temples and their magical garments with all sorts of occultic and masonic symbols such as the compass and square, beehives, fig leafs, pentagrams and inverted pentagrams, hexagrams, and many other such occultic symbols.

This issue of the Mormons' rejection of the Cross of Christ is one of the clear signs that Mormonism is absolutely not Christian at all. Clearly, the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them.

Mormons do not reject the Cross of Christ. Don't be silly.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Look, i just see it as mormon bashing! You can try to change their views / beliefs, thats fine. It just seems like its just a way to 'have a go' at them.

OK, so I was right about you - you are bashing Christians as your response to bashing that you perceive us doing. And you see no self-contradiction or hypocrisy in that?

And I haven't even addressed yet the fact that there is no "Mormon bashing" going on in here.

So are you trying to say that you think Mormons are Christian or that their church is just another denomination of Christianity?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Mormons do not reject the Cross of Christ. Don't be silly.

Which Mormon church, temple, or publication has a cross on it?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Do you carry a cross around with you whereever you go? If you don't, I am pretty sure you believe this statement is metaphoric.

Mormons believe it is a metaphoric statement too. So you will not see us carrying crosses as we do our daily labors.
If we thought it was meant literally, we would carry a cross of some sort whereever we go.

So do you carry a cross, or do you believe it is a metaphore?

I'm talking about the symbol of the cross - Mormons hate it and never, ever use it. They prefer statues and occult symbols. Mormons don't believe Christ suffered on the cross as much as in the garden of gethsemane.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Which Mormon church, temple, or publication has a cross on it?

We talking about the Christ and honoring His sacrifice, taking His name/cross upon us. The inward.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You are TOTALLY bashing.

Respectfully challenging beliefs (the SoP here) would involve 1) being respectful, and 2) talking about beliefs. You are frequently disrespectful and instead of talking about actual LDS beliefs, you nit-pick things like cultural stuff (example, this thread's OP). You are not challenging, but blindly bashing. And the result here is giving the impression that you are an arrogant and ignorant jerk. Such actually discourages a person from adopting your religious views, being counter-productive to any evangelizing efforts.

How have I bashed at all? Please show me instead of blindly accusing me.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm talking about the symbol of the cross - Mormons hate it and never, ever use it. They prefer statues and occult symbols. Mormons don't believe Christ suffered on the cross as much as in the garden of gethsemane.

You nitpicking the fact that LDS do not culturally compulsively draw perpendicular lines on the outwardness of everything.

Peter, I, and many of the other posters here are talking about the inward taking Him- His sacrifice and His name upon us.

 

[Jane_Doe]

How have I bashed at all? Please show me instead of blindly accusing me.

Example: this thread's title and OP.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

We talking about the Christ and honoring His sacrifice, taking His name/cross upon us. The inward.

Well I wrote the OP of this thread and this thread is about the outward symbol of the inward conviction. If you would like a thread on just the inward then please feel free to start that thread and discuss it there rather than hijacking this one.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Example: this thread's title and OP.

How is this thread's title and OP a bashing of Mormons? Am I wrong? Do Mormons glory in the cross as St. Paul taught in God's Word? Can you show me where Mormons use the cross as a symbol of the power of Christ's redemptive sacrifice?

 

[Jane_Doe]

How is this thread's title and OP a bashing of Mormons?

Your title blindly claims that "Mormons are the enemy of the Cross and therefore not Christian". Unfounded accusation = bashing.

Your OP is focused nitpicking the fact that LDS do not culturally compulsively draw perpendicular lines on the outwardness of everything. Nothing to do with being a disciple of Christ (as Christian). Does not address your blind claim that this makes Mormons enemies of the Cross. It is bashing.

Do Mormons glory in the cross as St. Paul taught in God's Word?

Yes, inwardly.

Can you show me where Mormons use the cross as a symbol of the power of Christ's redemptive sacrifice?

Yes, read your Bible. It's talked about all in there. If you want, I can also point you to LDS-speicific scriptures on this subject.

No, LDS do not feel the culturally compulsively need draw perpendicular lines on the outwardness of everything.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Your title blindly claims that "Mormons are the enemy of the Cross and therefore not Christian". Unfounded accusation = bashing.

Wrong. My title makes a claim which my OP backs up. It is not "unfounded". Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's either unfounded or bashing. In fact, what's unfounded is your accusation that my OP is unfounded since I clearly provide the foundation for it in my OP. So you are the one bashing here.

Your OP is focused nitpicking the fact that LDS do not culturally compulsively draw perpendicular lines on the outwardness of everything. Nothing to do with being a disciple of Christ (as Christian). Does not address your blind claim that this makes Mormons enemies of the Cross. It is bashing.

Nitpicking? The subject of the cross is a nitpick? Perhaps to you and other mormons it is. For Christians the Cross is such a powerful symbol that virtually every Christian Church displays the symbol of the cross, most Christians wear a cross, our Bibles have Crosses on them, our priests and clergy use Crosses in various ways, and across all orthodox, mainstream denominations of Christianity you will find Crosses displayed in and on buildings and in publications and artwork and icons and flags and banners and crests. There are Churches and schools and colleges and seminaries named "Holy Cross".

So, in case you weren't aware, I'm informing you that the symbol of the Cross is of major importance in Christianity across all orthodox denominations. In fact, most Christians in the world make "the sign of the cross" regularly in their lives, in church and outside of church services.

Were you not aware of the major significance of the Cross in Christianity? I find that hard to believe.

Considering its significance in all the major Christian denominations and the contrast of that against the utter lack of the Cross in the Mormon religion it is definitely a point worth making. If Mormons glory in the cross inwardly that would at some point have an outward display.

Mormons seem to have no problem with outward displays of symbols of their other values - beehives, sun, moon, stars, pentagrams and inverted pentagrams, beehives, handshakes, angels, masonic compass and square... and out of all those symbols what is glaringly missing is the Cross of Christ.

Add to that the fact that Mormons place more importance on Christ's suffering at the Garden of Gethsemane and it is clear that they have a strong aversion to the symbol of the Cross of Christ. Those who don't preach the cross and glory in the Cross are enemies of the Cross.

Yes, inwardly.

So you don't outwardly want to proclaim the message of the Cross of Christ to those who need the Gospel? Why not? Do you believe there is something about the Cross of Christ that is to be kept secret or hidden? If so, why? What is so secretive and inward-only about the Cross? Christian Churches glory in the cross and proclaim it with the symbol of it everywhere.

Yes, read your Bible. It's talked about all in there. If you want, I can also point you to LDS-speicific scriptures on this subject.

Sorry, I don't see in my bible where Mormons use the cross as a symbol of the power of Christ's redemptive sacrifice. Where in the Bible does it say that Mormons use the cross this way? My Bible doesn't even mention mormons (at least not by name).

No, LDS do not feel the culturally compulsively need draw perpendicular lines on the outwardness of everything.

Right, they only feel the culturally compulsive need to draw hexagrams and pentagrams and angels blowing trumpets and beehives and compasses and squares but never, ever, ever the need to draw the perpendicular lines that form a Cross. Add to that the fact that mormonism preaches a different "Jesus" and a different gospel and it's just like I said - enemies of the Cross.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Your "power of the cross" statement implies that you believe the cross saves us, like it has special saving powers. . I'm sure you believe it is Jesus Christ that saves, not the cross.

Do you believe that we would be saved apart from the cross?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Your "power of the cross" statement implies that you believe the cross saves us, like it has special saving powers. . I'm sure you believe it is Jesus Christ that saves, not the cross.

The phrase "power of the cross" is from this verse:
I Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It is clear that "the cross" is symbolic there of the Gospel, the story of the cross and the preaching of that story. The cross itself does not have saving powers; the story of the cross (i.e. the Gospel) has saving powers to those who believe and accept. It is the power of God. And preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness - it can't be any more plain than that how important the symbol of the cross is.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Do you believe that we would be saved apart from the cross?

Apart from Christ's sacrifice? No.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Apart from Christ's sacrifice? No.

What did Jesus say on the cross that is the most notable?

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm going to focus on most important points here, rather than replying to all.

Nitpicking? The subject of the cross is a nitpick? Perhaps to you and other mormons it is. For Christians the Cross is such a powerful symbol that virtually every Christian Church displays the symbol of the cross, most Christians wear a cross, our Bibles have Crosses on them, our priests and clergy use Crosses in various ways, and across all orthodox, mainstream denominations of Christianity you will find Crosses displayed in and on buildings and in publications and artwork and icons and flags and banners and crests. There are Churches and schools and colleges and seminaries named "Holy Cross".

And all of those crosses will not save you.

If is Christ's sacrifice which saves us. Yes, it was on the cross, and the cross symbolizes it. But it is the actual sacrifice which saves you, not the symbol of it.

Considering its significance in all the major Christian denominations and the contrast of that against the utter lack of the Cross in the Mormon religion it is definitely a point worth making. If Mormons glory in the cross inwardly that would at some point have an outward display.

Why are you so focused on outward display? That's not how God looks on things (1 Samuel 16:7).

 

[Jane_Doe]

What did Jesus say on the cross that is the most notable?

I'm not sure the relevance of this question....