LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

[He is the way]

Sorry, you do not get to move on with other claims until you answer this:

Christ as a brother who created us?
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

What part of all things do you consider yourself NOT to be?

Christ did not create our spirits, God the Father did. Christ is our brother.

 

[He is the way]

Only through is humanity---we are not brothers in His divinity!!

We have a divine nature:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And there is this also:

(New Testament | Ephesians 3:19)

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[Jamesone5]

Christ did not create our spirits, God the Father did. Christ is our brother.

Here is the word father as it is used in the Bible, with plenty of verse to back up how it is used:

Easton's Bible Dictionary – Father
Resources » Easton's Bible Dictionary » F » Father
Father
a name applied (1) to any ancestor (Deut. 1:11; 1 Kings 15:11; Matt. 3:9; 23:30, etc.); and (2) as a title of respect to a chief, ruler, or elder, etc. (Judg. 17:10; 18:19; 1 Sam. 10:12; 2 Kings 2:12; Matt. 23:9, etc.). (3) The author or beginner of anything is also so called; e.g., Jabal and Jubal (Gen. 4:20, 21; comp. Job 38:28).

Applied to God (Ex. 4:22; Deut. 32:6; 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:27, 28, etc.). (1.) As denoting his covenant relation to the Jews (Jer. 31:9; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; John 8:41, etc.).

(2.) Believers are called God's "sons" (John 1:12; Rom. 8:16; Matt. 6:4, 8, 15, 18; 10:20, 29). They also call him "Father" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:4)

 

[He is the way]

Here is the word father as it is used in the Bible, with plenty of verse to back up how it is used:

Easton's Bible Dictionary – Father
Resources » Easton's Bible Dictionary » F » Father
Father
a name applied (1) to any ancestor (Deut. 1:11; 1 Kings 15:11; Matt. 3:9; 23:30, etc.); and (2) as a title of respect to a chief, ruler, or elder, etc. (Judg. 17:10; 18:19; 1 Sam. 10:12; 2 Kings 2:12; Matt. 23:9, etc.). (3) The author or beginner of anything is also so called; e.g., Jabal and Jubal (Gen. 4:20, 21; comp. Job 38:28).

Applied to God (Ex. 4:22; Deut. 32:6; 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:27, 28, etc.). (1.) As denoting his covenant relation to the Jews (Jer. 31:9; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; John 8:41, etc.).

(2.) Believers are called God's "sons" (John 1:12; Rom. 8:16; Matt. 6:4, 8, 15, 18; 10:20, 29). They also call him "Father" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:4)

You are just following what you have been taught. I know what a father is.

 

[Jamesone5]

Christ did not create our spirits, God the Father did. Christ is our brother.

once again--- what part of all things are even our spirits NOT? Everything was Created Through Him--that means our spirits, angels, our bodies--everything.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are just following what you have been taught. I know what a father is.

LOL! Nobody, but nobody, just follows what they have been taught better than the LDS!! We do not share in the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. That is why we are adopted and thus heirs. Natural children' do not need to be adopted.

 

[Jamesone5]

You are just following what you have been taught. I know what a father is.

I thought you were curious for Truth? Did you not check out the verses that support that father is just a term [in this debate] used for Divine Beings?

I have been taught by the Holy Spirit or God's Spirit of Truth, btw

 

[mmksparbud]

We have a divine nature:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And there is this also:

(New Testament | Ephesians 3:19)

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

There is nothing divine about us! We have to overcome to try to develop God's character in us. We can not be partakers of His essence--we can only attain unto a resemblance of His character.

 

[truefiction1]

Through the Bible we learn that Jesus the Son of God and our brother thought it not robbery to be equal to God:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Paul was looking forward to the prize of the high calling of God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:13 - 15)

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Jesus said that men are Gods:

(New Testament | John 10:34)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

We have a divine nature:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And there is this also:

(New Testament | Ephesians 3:19)

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

WOW! I've never seen or even imagined it to be possible that anyone would fail to understand what Philippians 2:5-6 is teaching to such a degree as you have demonstrated in the way that you have tried to use it here.

I think, therefore, before going any further with analysis, we should take a close look at this Scriptural passage in particular.

Here is what the text is teaching: Christ Jesus is in the form of God and is equal with God,
yet He did not consider Himself being robbed of anything when He took upon Himself the form of a servant, in the form of a man of no reputation.

Here is another translation of that specific text, from the Bible:

"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped," (From the English: American Standard Version).

Paul was instructing the Philippian Christians on the importance of "humility" in their behaviors with regard to how they regarded other people. He is basically telling them that they need to be as God is, Who is revealed in the Person of Christ (God's Mind): HUMBLE

 

[truefiction1]

Now that We've covered the real message of Philippians 2:5-6 we can get back to my initial wondering: Why is equality with God such an important matter to you, personally, and what do you perceive the meaning of "equality with God" to be, or to be an indicator of to you personally?

Jesus Christ, Who is the very Mind ("Wisdom of God" 1 Corinthians 1:24) of God, does not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped. Why, therefor, does grasping equality with God appear to be the foremost concern in Mormon thought on salvation?

 

[He is the way]

once again--- what part of all things are even our spirits NOT? Everything was Created Through Him--that means our spirits, angels, our bodies--everything.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

And again Jesus did NOT create our spirits, His God did it.

 

[He is the way]

LOL! Nobody, but nobody, just follows what they have been taught better than the LDS!! We do not share in the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. That is why we are adopted and thus heirs. Natural children' do not need to be adopted.

They do once man was driven out:

(Old Testament | Genesis 3:23 - 24)

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Some will be able to return and some won't:

(New Testament | Hebrews 12:7 - 9)

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

 

[He is the way]

I thought you were curious for Truth? Did you not check out the verses that support that father is just a term [in this debate] used for Divine Beings?

I have been taught by the Holy Spirit or God's Spirit of Truth, btw

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[He is the way]

There is nothing divine about us! We have to overcome to try to develop God's character in us. We can not be partakers of His essence--we can only attain unto a resemblance of His character.

(New Testament | John 17:11 - 23)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[He is the way]

Now that We've covered the real message of Philippians 2:5-6 we can get back to my initial wondering: Why is equality with God such an important matter to you, personally, and what do you perceive the meaning of "equality with God" to be, or to be an indicator of to you personally?

Jesus Christ, Who is the very Mind ("Wisdom of God" 1 Corinthians 1:24) of God, does not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped. Why, therefor, does grasping equality with God appear to be the foremost concern in Mormon thought on salvation?

The goal of mankind (the sons of God) to be one with the Father and the Son. See the above post.

 

[Rescued One]

And Mormons want every non-Mormon to follow Joseph Smith!

 

[mmksparbud]

And again Jesus did NOT create our spirits, His God did it.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Yes, we understand that you do not understand what ALL means.

 

[mmksparbud]

(New Testament | John 17:11 - 23)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Our characters are to reflect the purity of Jesus.

 

[He is the way]

And Mormons want every non-Mormon to follow Joseph Smith!

We are to follow the current prophet.

 

[He is the way]

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Yes, we understand that you do not understand what ALL means.

Were ALL things created, was God created?