LDS Mormon Families Can't Be Together Forever

[withwonderingawe]

It's somewhere in here;

www.space.com/27016-galaxy-supercluster-laniakea-milky-way-home.html

 

[Jane_Doe]

The hymn you quoted didn't mention Kolob. ???

The hymn's name is "If you could hie to Kolob". The word 'Kolob' is only mentioned once within the hymn itself. If you're interested, here's the full lyrics/music If You Could Hie to Kolob or if you just want to listen/watch

 

[withwonderingawe]

The hymn you quoted didn't mention Kolob. ???

first three verses

1. 1. If you could hie to Kolob
   In the twinkling of an eye,
   And then continue onward
   With that same speed to fly,
   Do you think that you could ever,
   Through all eternity,
   Find out the generation
   Where Gods began to be?
2. 2. Or see the grand beginning,
   Where space did not extend?
   Or view the last creation,
   Where Gods and matter end?
   Methinks the Spirit whispers,
   “No man has found ‘pure space,’
   Nor seen the outside curtains,
   Where nothing has a place.”
3. 3. The works of God continue,
   And worlds and lives abound;
   Improvement and progression
   Have one eternal round.
   There is no end to matter;
   There is no end to space;
   There is no end to spirit;
   There is no end to race.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The hymn's name is "If you could hie to Kolob". The word 'Kolob' is only mentioned once within the hymn itself. If you're interested, here's the full lyrics/music If You Could Hie to Kolob or if you just want to listen/watch

Very pretty tune. It almost sounds Celtic.

 

[Rescued One]

Thank you for posting the song. Let me ask you another question. Since this tune was written in 1939, was Kolob known to Mormons before that?

Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.
Abraham 3

The first collection of materials carrying the title Pearl of Great Price was made in 1851 by Elder Franklin D. Richards, then a member of the Council of the Twelve and president of the British Mission. Its purpose was to make more readily accessible some important articles that had had limited circulation in the time of Joseph Smith. As Church membership increased throughout Europe and America, there was a need to make these items available. The Pearl of Great Price received wide use and subsequently became a standard work of the Church by action of the First Presidency and the general conference in Salt Lake City on October 10, 1880.

Several revisions have been made in the contents as the needs of the Church have required. In 1878 portions of the book of Moses not contained in the first edition were added. In 1902 certain parts of the Pearl of Great Price that duplicated material also published in the Doctrine and Covenants were omitted. Arrangement into chapters and verses, with footnotes, was done in 1902. The first publication in double-column pages, with index, was in 1921. No other changes were made until April 1976, when two items of revelation were added. In 1979 these two items were removed from the Pearl of Great Price and placed in the Doctrine and Covenants, where they now appear as sections 137 and 138. In the present edition some changes have been made to bring the text into conformity with earlier documents.
Introduction

 

[Rescued One]

Very pretty tune. It almost sounds Celtic.

Right on!
The tune is used for numerous other folk songs in various regions:[1]

• "The Star of the County Down" (Ireland)
• "Gilderoy" (Scotland)
• "The Thresher"
• "Crooked Jack"
• "The Unquiet Grave"
• "The Fighting 69th" (United States)
• "The Murder of Maria Marten" (England)
• "Baledwyr Nefyn" (Gwynedd, north Wales)
• Dives and Lazarus (ballad) - Wikipedia

"If You Could Hie to Kolob"[50] (hie, to hasten) is a Latter-day Saint hymn that was written by the early Mormon W. W. Phelps. The music is taken from a well-known folk tune known as "Dives and Lazarus". It was originally published in 1842 in Times and Seasons and is hymn number 284 in the current hymnal for the LDS Church.[4] The hymn makes only a single reference to Kolob, in the first line of the hymn (from which the hymn's title is derived). It is the only hymn in the current LDS Church hymnal that mentions Kolob.
Kolob - Wikipedia

Writers in the Latter Day Saint movement have taken positions on both sides of the issue of whether Kolob is a star or a planet. Brigham Young, second president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), spoke of Kolob as a planet.[21] Likewise, LDS Church apostles John Taylor,[22] Orson Pratt (a mathematician with an interest in astronomy),[23] Orson F. Whitney,[24] and Alvin R. Dyer[25] referred to Kolob as a planet. Other Mormon theologians have also viewed Kolob as a planet.[26] Several other Mormon writers have referred to Kolob as a star, including B. H. Roberts[27] and LDS Church president David O. McKay.[28]
Kolob - Wikipedia

 

[Rescued One]

God’s ability to be present everywhere through His spirit (Ps. 139:7–12; D&C 88:7–13, 41).
Omnipresent

Mormons, in all those years, never once taught me that the Father is omnipresent.

But Mormonism constantly contradicts itself, speaking of the light of Christ:

D&C 88
6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;
Doctrine and Covenants 88

D&C 130
3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false...

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.
Doctrine and Covenants 130

As a personage of spirit, the Holy Ghost can be in only one place at a time, but His influence can be everywhere at the same time.2
The Holy Ghost Testifies of Truth - ensign

 

[Rescued One]

Mormon families can not be together forever.
Each member can be in only one place at a time; each member that earns the right to be in the highest level of the CK has Godhood and will create a planet (one or more) for his spirit children to live on in order to experience mortality.

 

[withwonderingawe]

The bold statements of yours seem to contradict. Do you accept the limited nature of your God bodily? Or do you believe in his omnipresence? You could make an argument that the Spirit who is like fine matter is spread throughout all reality and even pervades distinct matter we observe but your Heavenly Father is not like that. He has a body that Joseph Smith (apparently) saw and interacted with. This means that for that brief moment of time Heavenly Father was nowhere else except in the presence of Joseph Smith.....
Now verse 13 from Doctrines and covenants doesn't say God is in the midst of all things but the Power of God who is in the midst of all things. Seems to me that refers to the Holy Spirit being the power of God but not God himself. Heavenly Father seemingly either has a body like our own which will be glorified as well and while we might be able to do some neat tricks do you suppose each one of us will become omnipresent? Certainty your Heavenly Father is not in the same room I'm in at the moment. Maybe his Spirit is, but not he himself in essence.

Not sure what you mean by "doesn't say God is in the midst of all things" because it says;

"The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things."


I'm afraid I'm entering the realm of the mysteries or speculation.

1John 1
.... God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

John 4
.... God is Spirit (not that this is the real intent of the passage)

and then in Rev 21, but first remember Jesus called his body his temple and our own bodies are called temples.

"...And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes...."

and D&C 93
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; .....

God has a tabernacle of element complete with hands to wipe away our tears.

So God is light+spirit+Tabernacle/body (that is your real trinity, some how it got all mixed up into this immaterial substance)

When the Bible speaks of the glory of God it says that no man can see his face or look upon him and live, without the Holy Spirit upon him. When John sees the risen Lord in Rev 1 it says "and his eyes were as a flame of fire" I take that to mean his countenance is so bright we can not stand in his presence.

Now this from D&C 88;
67 And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

So our resurrected bodies will become filled with light matching his own so that we can see his face.

Now here comes the way out there speculation part; my Mormons friends will roles their eyes at me.

I'll go back to E=mc2, Einstein came up with this formula in 1905 and means the denser the matter the more energy is stored within, and it has something to do, which beyond my finite mind, with the speed of light. A lump of coal has more stored light than a equal amount of oil which has more than a gas which has more than pure sun light.

However there is this; "Solid light is a hypothetical material, made of light in a solidified state. Theoretically, it is possible to make such a material, and there are claims this material was already made, including claims from MIT and Harvard." (Wiki )

So my theory is; while God is in the shape of a man he is solid light of some kind.

Do you see what I'm saying; to create, control and govern the universe it takes real power and not magical power, my solid God would have more real energy than your God of immaterial substance.

Now pack to D&C 88 written in 1832, there is a play on truth and light but I'm interested in the real physical light.

7...This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made......

12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

This revelation is address the real power of God and is really beyond any kind of knowledge Joseph Smith could of had.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Every God has his own planet. The children of LDS, if they are exalted, will have their own planets and plans of salvation for the people on that planet.

When we lived with our Heavenly Father, He explained a plan for our progression. We could become like Him, an exalted being.
Chapter 47: Exaltation

The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."
Gospel Fundamentals Manual, ©. 1992, 2002, Chapter 36, p. 201

They will receive everything our father has and will become like him. Not being one to stir up krap but doesn't this sound like a certain angel of heaven one time? " I will be like the most high" words of lucifer

 

[Jane_Doe]

They will receive everything our father has and will become like him. Not being one to stir up krap but doesn't this sound like a certain angel of heaven one time? " I will be like the most high" words of lucifer

No, totally different. Actual LDS theology on the matter: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father and two other explanation on the subject Becoming Like God and Chapter 47: Exaltation .

 

[Jonathan Leo]

No, totally different. Actual LDS theology on the matter: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father and two other explanation on the subject Becoming Like God and Chapter 47: Exaltation .

What's the trend of believing Satan is Jesus half brother?

 

[Jane_Doe]

What's the trend of believing Satan is Jesus half brother?

The "trend" is believing the Father is the Father of all.

 

[Ironhold]

What's the trend of believing Satan is Jesus half brother?

The actual theology holds that all of us are brothers and sisters on the spiritual level, meaning that both Jesus and Satan are our brothers as well.

Critics of the church like to cut the middle out and throw around "Jesus and Satan are brothers!" as a cheap shock tactic. It's a deliberately distorted rendition of what we believe, but the fact that they're being false in God's name doesn't seem to register.

 

[mmksparbud]

The actual theology holds that all of us are brothers and sisters on the spiritual level, meaning that both Jesus and Satan are our brothers as well.

Critics of the church like to cut the middle out and throw around "Jesus and Satan are brothers!" as a cheap shock tactic. It's a deliberately distorted rendition of what we believe, but the fact that they're being false in God's name doesn't seem to register.

LOL! You say that Jesus and Satan and us are brothers then you claim distortion for those who say that Jesus and Satan and us are brothers!!
You say that Jesus is the Son of God and heavenly mother---We are all the sons and daughters of God and heavenly mother, Lucifer was the Son of God and heavenly mother. So just exactly where is the distortion???

 

[Ironhold]

LOL! You say that Jesus and Satan and us are brothers then you claim distortion for those who say that Jesus and Satan and us are brothers!!

Look at it this way -

"I heard Jimmy just paid $100 for one of those body pillows with the image of an anime girl on it."

"I heard Jimmy just paid $100 for a new pseudo-girlfriend."

Both statements are true in a sense, but you can probably guess that more people will be shocked by the second statement than the first. Paying money for a girlfriend? Imagine how the average person would process that.

It's a bit of an outrageous example, but it still demonstrates what's going on here.

The critics are deliberately ripping the theology from context and presenting it in such a fashion that the average person is going to be shocked by it. That's where the falsehoods come in.

 

[Rescued One]

What's the trend of believing Satan is Jesus half brother?

Satan is not referred to as a half-brother.

More Mormonism:

Ensign, September 1984:
"I have often wondered what we are thinking when we say that plain, simple, true statement, 'I am a child of God.' We know the statement does not mean that God is the father of our tangible, physical bodies, because we know that they are the offspring of our earthly fathers and mothers.
"Therefore, what do we really mean when we sing or say, 'I am a child of God'? To answer this question, we must first understand that the Lord revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that we human beings are souls; that is, we are dual beings, and dual means two. A dual object means an object made up of two parts. A human soul, each of us, is composed of two parts, or two bodies—a spirit body and a physical body. It is the Lord himself who said that 'the spirit and the body are the soul of man.' (D&C 88:15.) Thus, it is our spirits, not our physical bodies, that were 'begotten' of God...
"the Lord stood there on that mountain with the brother of Jared, and He said, 'Behold, I am Jesus Christ. … In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.'"
We Are Children of God - ensign

1 Nephi 17
36 Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it.

"That the spirits who were juniors to Christ were predestined to be born in the image of their Elder Brother is thus attested by Paul:

“ 'And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

“ 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren' (Rom. 8:28–29)....

"In the course of a revelation given through Joseph Smith in May 1833, the Lord Jesus Christ said, as before cited, “And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21). A later verse makes plain the fact that human beings generally were similarly existent in spirit state prior to their embodiment in the flesh: 'Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth' (D&C 93:23).

"Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any or all others, by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn; (2) of His unique status in the flesh as the offspring of a mortal mother and of an immortal, or resurrected and glorified, Father; (3) of His selection and foreordination as the one and only Redeemer and Savior of the race; and (4) of His transcendent sinlessness.

"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons or daughters of Elohim. So far as the stages of eternal progression and attainment have been made known through divine revelation, we are to understand that only resurrected and glorified beings can become parents of spirit offspring. Only such exalted souls have reached maturity in the appointed course of eternal life; and the spirits born to them in the eternal worlds will pass in due sequence through the several stages or estates by which the glorified parents have attained exaltation."
Gospel Classics: - ensign

IOW, those who are obedient enough to deserve exaltation/eternal life will have spirit children who will be given an opportunity to earn exaltation on other planets like this earth.

Do you see how they misinterpret Romans 8:28-29?

 

[mmksparbud]

Look at it this way -

"I heard Jimmy just paid $100 for one of those body pillows with the image of an anime girl on it."

"I heard Jimmy just paid $100 for a new pseudo-girlfriend."

Both statements are true in a sense, but you can probably guess that more people will be shocked by the second statement than the first. Paying money for a girlfriend? Imagine how the average person would process that.

It's a bit of an outrageous example, but it still demonstrates what's going on here.

The critics are deliberately ripping the theology from context and presenting it in such a fashion that the average person is going to be shocked by it. That's where the falsehoods come in.

More Like saying cream, sugar and vanilla, frozen-----instead of saying cream with sugar and vanilla and frozen?? Truly shocking.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Satan is not referred to as a half-brother.

More Mormonism:

Ensign, September 1984:
"I have often wondered what we are thinking when we say that plain, simple, true statement, 'I am a child of God.' We know the statement does not mean that God is the father of our tangible, physical bodies, because we know that they are the offspring of our earthly fathers and mothers.
"Therefore, what do we really mean when we sing or say, 'I am a child of God'? To answer this question, we must first understand that the Lord revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that we human beings are souls; that is, we are dual beings, and dual means two. A dual object means an object made up of two parts. A human soul, each of us, is composed of two parts, or two bodies—a spirit body and a physical body. It is the Lord himself who said that 'the spirit and the body are the soul of man.' (D&C 88:15.) Thus, it is our spirits, not our physical bodies, that were 'begotten' of God...
"the Lord stood there on that mountain with the brother of Jared, and He said, 'Behold, I am Jesus Christ. … In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.'"
We Are Children of God - ensign

1 Nephi 17
36 Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it.

"That the spirits who were juniors to Christ were predestined to be born in the image of their Elder Brother is thus attested by Paul:

“ 'And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

“ 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren' (Rom. 8:28–29)....

"In the course of a revelation given through Joseph Smith in May 1833, the Lord Jesus Christ said, as before cited, “And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21). A later verse makes plain the fact that human beings generally were similarly existent in spirit state prior to their embodiment in the flesh: 'Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth' (D&C 93:23).

"Let it not be forgotten, however, that He is essentially greater than any or all others, by reason (1) of His seniority as the oldest or firstborn; (2) of His unique status in the flesh as the offspring of a mortal mother and of an immortal, or resurrected and glorified, Father; (3) of His selection and foreordination as the one and only Redeemer and Savior of the race; and (4) of His transcendent sinlessness.

"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons or daughters of Elohim. So far as the stages of eternal progression and attainment have been made known through divine revelation, we are to understand that only resurrected and glorified beings can become parents of spirit offspring. Only such exalted souls have reached maturity in the appointed course of eternal life; and the spirits born to them in the eternal worlds will pass in due sequence through the several stages or estates by which the glorified parents have attained exaltation."
Gospel Classics: - ensign

IOW, those who are obedient enough to deserve exaltation/eternal life will have spirit children who will be given an opportunity to earn exaltation on other planets like this earth.

Do you see how they misinterpret Romans 8:28-29?

What about God coming down and impregnating Mary and that's how Jesus was born??

 

[Rescued One]

What about God coming down and impregnating Mary and that's how Jesus was born??

They don't want to talk about that and will tell you that they don't know how it was done. If you want to know more I can research it for exact LDS quotes.