And yet - women will continue to be ordained regardless of how you interpret scriptures.Isaiah 45:19 "I, the Lord speak the truth; I declare what is right." That means he gets to say what is right. Not us. All we can do is agree with him and if we don't then we are wrong.
Isaiah 3:12 "Youths oppress my people, women rule over them." That is an indictment, not a blessing.
There's all kinds of verses regarding the roles of women and men. If that sounds like an old patriarchy to you, then maybe it really is. But if your opinions deviate from God's word, then you are in the wrong because he tends to say what he means without regard for our feelings or opinions. And I don't think he bothered to seek out your counsel when he wrote this.
I'm not suggesting you have to go to a church with a pastor you don't approve of.So once more I'll point out that I'm reformed baptist. It seems to be helpful.
I am solidly sola scriptura as a result, and as such do actually believe the Books of the Bible to be God breathed, and the message therein to be our basis of faith, and the measure of right and wrong.
It's fine to look at how we understand passages. I believe this is an important part of growing in knowledge and in faith..
But this is an issue that's not so clear cut... I've read the Bible in every translation, looked at history as well as the Greek and every argument on every side, and there's nothing yet to convince me it's not a sin.. There is a very large question mark around it and it's not so easy as to say that everyone who thinks it might very well be (or is) a sin is just an ignorant human being.
I'm not perfect. Far from it and I prefer to keep my failures of faith and obedience to things I really can't control at the time. Which means, I actually do attempt obedience to the things God asks my obedience in.
This is just another area for obedience. And until I feel absolutely certain in my understanding of this either way (although threads like this do really help that along), I'll not attend a church that has a woman Pastor, because I believe the Christian character of a Pastor to be very important, and if someone might be openly sinning they are out as a Pastor for me.
That said, I've looked at some of the women Pastors as well, heard what they are teaching and so far I'm far from impressed... as a matter of fact many/most of them would make excellent poster children for why women don't belong in ministry.
So, while I understand that we won't all agree on doctrine, and understand there are bad/horrific male preachers too, we do have to use all our wisdom and senses to attempt discernment of the truth of the matter.. and from what I've seen, it just seems a safer bet to err on the side of caution than to find myself lost on the wrong road.
Thats your definition? Gee that's not very comforting for Christianity if there's to be no critical analysis of scriptures or challenges of their meaning within a contemporary society.
Thats possibly why the religion is shrinking fast.
Another definition of "Evangelical" is that we believe that Scripture judges the society around us, not the other way round.
What do you mean? I dont get you Radagast? Are you saying that scripture sets the standard NOT society?
then we really are poles apart.
I'm not suggesting you have to go to a church with a pastor you don't approve of.
what I do, however, have an issue with, is the disrespect and at times scornful comments levied towards the women who have elected that vocation. No-one demands you attend those churches. But I am astonished at some comments I hear on CF that throws acid in the face of our female pastors on this site.
Now you state you feel fine with male pastors..... well I know just how vile a male priest can be and I am sure it won't take much for you to google for yourself how many male church leaders have shamed Christianity.
There's many like me who do not trust a male priest/pastor - Thank God he has seen fit to deliver us female pastors.
I guess what upsets me most is that - you don't like a woman being a priest - fine - don't go to a church with one.No one gets every passage right, but it is still better to try as hard as you can to understand and stand on God's word than to say, I don't agree with it so I can discard it. If your house is built upon sand, it will fall. That is why I respond to Christians on this site because even though we may disagree, I still think that they are trying to honor God's word. Atheists and others who just pass it off as irrelevant, I don't have much to say to. They already have their judge.
I very much agree that every society sets its own standards. Every society sets what is right for itself. Which means although we don't have to agree with it, we cannot condemn it as wrong since it right for the society it is in. If Moslems want to mutilate their daughters, it is right because their society says so.
I guess what upsets me most is that - you don't like a woman being a priest - fine - don't go to a church with one.
BUT I do - I placed this thread as a celebration. For people like me, female pastors are a Godsend and I have good deal less respect for male priests.
To me, the increasing numbers of women in the vocation was something to feel good about.
Then all of you people came in and trashed not only that women who were turning to God vocationally, but throwing comments around to an actual pastor which was just short of saying metaphorically 'burn the witch'.
I wanted this to celebrate pastors like her. I wish the rest of you would just go away if you dislike women pastoral leaders so much and keep your "I know God's will" comments to yourself. You've all turned something positive into something bitter.
Fine carve away Hazel - you obviously want to bring the concept down - Do your worst.Is this a forum section like the egalitarian Christian section where no opposing discussion is allowed?
And if people want to burn their children as a sacrifice to Moloch (Leviticus 18:21), that's fine too, is it?
A thousand times no! If the Bible says that things are wrong, then they are wrong!
Lets face it - the OT was hardly a beacon of moral standards. Theres way too much condoning of murder, slavery, abuse of women, sexual assault...etc etc...not to mention silly laws eg no shell-fish etc
Some of this was tweaked in the NT - only proving that thinking was adjusted as society evolved.
Lets face it - the OT was hardly a beacon of moral standards. Theres way too much condoning of murder, slavery, abuse of women, sexual assault...etc etc...not to mention silly laws eg no shell-fish etc
Some of this was tweaked in the NT - only proving that thinking was adjusted as society evolved.
Of course I agree.
But if the teachings of the bible are not believed, anything goes because society is then left to itself. You cannot do cafeteria style scripture. It's all or nothing. If you cannot stand upon a higher authority than yourself, you aren't standing on anything.
Well does that mean you accept those OT standards in their entirety? I doubt anyone here does- and that's my point despite your attempt to ridicule me.Lol... yet here you are telling us we can't understand what the Bible teaches! We should accept your view of Christianity, you tell us...
Something about itching ears in the Bible isn't there? Hmmm.. I'll have to look that one up..
Well does that mean you accept those OT standards in their entirety? I doubt anyone here does- and that's my point despite your attempt to ridicule me.
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