More "gay panic"

[Maren]

I found this article rather humorous, though terribly sad.

"We didn't pay 37 million zlotys ($11 million) for the largest elephant house in Europe to have a gay elephant live there," Michal Grzes, a conservative councilor in the city of Poznan in western Poland, was quoted as saying.

Thoughts?

 

[FlamingFemme]

I love how the article says,

"The head of the Poznan zoo said 10-year-old Ninio may be too young to decide whether he prefers males or females as elephants only reach sexual maturity at 14."

So, basically, this politician is freaking out over nothing - The elephant can't be gay if it hasn't reached sexual maturity. This would be like putting a 7 or 8 year old into reparative therapy - He's not even gay yet, so how could you turn him straight?

...Bizarre.

 

[selfinflikted]

I love how the article says,

"The head of the Poznan zoo said 10-year-old Ninio may be too young to decide whether he prefers males or females as elephants only reach sexual maturity at 14."

So, basically, this politician is freaking out over nothing - The elephant can't be gay if it hasn't reached sexual maturity. This would be like putting a 7 or 8 year old into reparative therapy - He's not even gay yet, so how could you turn him straight?

...Bizarre.

Meh. I knew I was gay long before I reached "sexual maturity"

 

[Beanieboy]

Well, the cage is faaaaaaaabulous.

I like that "he may be too young to decide which he prefers..."

While straight boys are usually homosocial at 10, they aren't in love with each other, or talking about how hot men are.

I didn't decide which to prefer, like, "chicken or fish?"
I was simply attracted. Deciding was only a decision to accept it.

But perhaps he will find Ganesh, and be led out of his elephomosexual lifestyle. Repentephant!

 

[Ectezus]

I found this article rather humorous, though terribly sad.

Myeah in all fairness the rest of the article says this:

"We were supposed to have a herd, but as Ninio prefers male friends over females how will he produce offspring?" said Grzes"

If you spend 11 million dollars and have a specific goal in mind (creating an Elephant herd) I can imagine a gay elephant isn't really the best way to reach that goal.

I'm pro-homosexual and all but I think this article is a little bit out of context.

- Ectezus

 

[Beanieboy]

They wanted an inbred herd of elephants?

Have they never heard of artificial insemination?

Nor heard of this nifty thing called "the internet"?

n captivity, young elephants are forced to reproduce much earlier than they would in the wild under normal circumstances. It is "reported that surprisingly young females between 8-10 years of age are giving birth to their first calf, which means that they are being bred at the age of 6-8 years. There have been isolated cases of even earlier breeding…" (Schilfarth, J., JEMA). Zoos are breeding elephants earlier in order to impregnate them before they "flatline" (stop cycling due to captivity). These young elephants, are juveniles, who have not been mothered enough to know how to pass on proper skills to a newborn. This early breeding is irresponsible and not in the best interest of the animals.

There have been only 38 African elephant births since 1978. Of those 22 offspring are known to have died; four more are completely unaccounted for, and, as of April 30, 2003, only 12 are still alive. In addition, of the 22 who are either known to be dead, 15 were still born; 1 20-day old elephant was gored to death by its mother; 1 died at 11 months; 1 died at 1 month; and 4 died between 7-15 years of age, i.e before they were themselves able to produce offspring.

33-22=11.
Since 1978.
I don't know if I would call that "a herd."

 

[Maren]

Myeah in all fairness the rest of the article says this:

"We were supposed to have a herd, but as Ninio prefers male friends over females how will he produce offspring?" said Grzes"

If you spend 11 million dollars and have a specific goal in mind (creating an Elephant herd) I can imagine a gay elephant isn't really the best way to reach that goal.

I'm pro-homosexual and all but I think this article is a little bit out of context.

- Ectezus

I thought about pointing that out in the OP, though I would have also pointed out the difficulties in breeding Elephants in captivity (as BeanieBoy covered so well). The fact is that most successful elephant breeding today is through artificial insemination -- so the sexual orientation of the elephant doesn't matter. Then there is the point of the elephant being only 10 -- much the same as most human 10 years old boys having little interest in sex (even though these same boys will have lots of interest in just a few years).

Also, if you spend 11 million on facilities for a herd of elephants, why would they only obtain one elephant, particularly a male, at that)? Considering the cost of the facilities and the difficulty of successfully breeding, would you not just buy the whole herd (at which point a gay male becomes much less of an issue)?

The comments seem to be a politician wanting to make a political point when he really doesn't understand what he is talking about. Further, if he has these concerns why is he not making them to the zoo and finding out the truth rather than taking this public. While I agree that it would be nice to have more depth to the story, it does seem this politicians comments are premature and out of line.

 

[The Nihilist]

This sounds like a joke. "Hey, did you hear the one about the gay elephant and the polack?"

(it's ok, I'm an ethnic Pole. But if you think it's funny, you're a racist)

 

[Ectezus]

The comments seem to be a politician wanting to make a political point

There really isn't enough information in the article to be sure. It doesn't even say if it's about an Asian or African elephant and the photo ain't helping either.
Maybe the guy is indeed extremely homophobic, but we don't know with just that one article. All I'm saying is he does have a point that does not necessarily has to be anti-homosexual.

It's easy to jump the bandwagon and prosecute people but I think it's unfair with the limited information you've posted.

- Ectezus

 

[CruciFixed]

This sounds like a joke. "Hey, did you hear the one about the gay elephant and the polack?"

(it's ok, I'm an ethnic Pole. But if you think it's funny, you're a racist)

Personally I think the whole thread is a joke. How is this gay panic?

Oh because the guy wants his Elephants to reproduce. What a homophobe.......

 

[Beanieboy]

This sounds like a joke. "Hey, did you hear the one about the gay elephant and the polack?"

(it's ok, I'm an ethnic Pole. But if you think it's funny, you're a racist)

Does it involve a female elephant, a politician, a bottle of wine and an 8 track tape of Barry White?

 

[The Nihilist]

Does it involve a female elephant, a politician, a bottle of wine and an 8 track tape of Barry White?

So the agent says, "well, what do you call it?" And the gay elephant says "The Aristocrats!"

 

[Beanieboy]

Personally I think the whole thread is a joke. How is this gay panic?

Oh because the guy wants his Elephants to reproduce. What a homophobe.......

Does the politician have nothing better to do than worry about an elephant at a zoo?

Grzes is a member of Poland's right wing Law and Justice Party aka 'Outlaw and Injustice Party'. A few years ago the party formed a coalition with the League of Polish Families and the Self-Defence Party. Both have a record of nationalist and homophobic rhetoric.

Former leader of Law and Justice, Polish president Lech Kaczynski, tried to ban gay rights parades in Poland and refused to deal with parade organizers on the grounds that "I am not willing to meet perverts".

So it comes as no surprise that a politician with the Law and Justice Party has an issue with an allegedly gay pachyderm.

Ninio wouldn't be an exception when it comes to elephant sexuality. Male elephants do engage in same-sex bonding and mounting.

Grzes might be jumping-the-gun on Ninio however. Head of Poznan zoo said the 10-year old elephant may still be too young to know which way he swings. He explained that elephants only reach sexual maturity at the age of fourteen.

<shudder>

Despite Grze’s protestations, the outing has been somewhat of a boon for Poznan. According to one source, “Visitors have been flocking to a zoo in the western Polish city of Poznan to catch a glimpse of an elephant, who it is claimed is homosexual, Polish media said.” Despite the gay tourism, “Grzes said that if Nino does not alter his behavior and breed, he will become ‘dead weight’ for the zoo. He is currently being kept separate from the other animals.”
The Sexist - Sex and Gender in D.C. - Washington City Paper

So, it's creating tourism, but isn't what we want! We want a herd of elephants.

Lech Kaczynski, one of the two brothers in the same party as Grze, has said homophobic things in the past, such as:

Speaking to an audience at Dublin Castle on the final day of his three day visit, Lech Kaczynski said that the promotion of homosexuality would lead to the eventual destruction of the human race.
Polish president&#8217;s homophobia outrages the Irish - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News

He stood over his decision to ban a gay rights march from Warsaw while mayor of the city in 2004 and rejected allegations that he was homophobic.

So, basically it's like Pat Robertson getting up in arms about a "gay elephant", as if the real issue is he wanted more elephants. The fact that it is happening in nature puts a wrench in the "choice" aspect, and suggests that yes, maybe some are created gay.

That is what I think is not said.

Do I think it was homophobic?
Um.... I would first respond with something like, "Senator, um, don't you have...like...WORK to do????"

If Barak was mad about a gay elephant, wouldn't you think, "aren't you supposed be at the White House? Dealing, with, like, economy, and stuff?"

It's unspoken homophobia, and in a place where a Pride parade was banned, and claiming that he isn't homophobic, there's a problem right there.

I question whether he would be this upset about straight elephants who didn't reproduce some Dumbos, and that would demonstrate homophobia.
Calling such attention to it suggests homophobia.

But there is a subtlety.
Belonging to a party that suggests that gay will be the downfall of civilization is homophobic. Kaczynski says that if all men and all women became gay, there would be no more people. Yeah, a man and a man aren't going to make a baby. Is that an issue with a World pop of 6 1/2 billion people?

No. If anything, not having children will help out the world.
"Promoting homosexuality" is another subtlety, like I'm going to go door to door, asking duuuudes if they want to stop liking baaaabes, and start liking other duuuuuudes, and the entire world will become one big Gay Disco.

What he means is, discussing homosexuality is not ok. Allowing gay rights is "promoting homosexuality."

Even here: ever notice posters who reduce others as "gay activists", or "pushing their agenda" and playing the victim as they vote Prop 8, which doesn't strengthen marriage at all.

I was born in the 60s. Anita Bryant tried to keep anti-discrimination laws off the books that protected gays from, well, people like Anita, who thought it their God given right to discriminate in the name of God. I remember Harvey Milk:

California State Senator John Briggs saw an opportunity in the Christian fundamentalists' campaign. He was hoping to be elected governor of California in 1978, and was impressed with the voter turnout he saw in Miami. When Briggs returned to Sacramento, he wrote a bill that would ban gays and lesbians from teaching in public schools throughout California. Briggs claimed in private that he had nothing against gays, telling journalist Randy Shilts, "It's politics. Just politics."

I marched in parades that weren't recognized, lived through Reagan's silence on AIDS, all the way up to Prop 8.

No homophobe will say, "I'm homophobic." They will say they aren't, that those are "other people." Racists aren't racist.

So, while this might seem like an innocent outburst, if you look at the history, both with what the party has said, and the history of gay people and how we have suffered, it's hard to take this as a man who is simply upset about not having a herd of elephants.

 

[Beanieboy]

It's interesting that he's been separated from the other elephants. Gay Elephant Panic.
He'll be putting on West Side Story and teaching jazz hands...

 

[gwenmead]

So the agent says, "well, what do you call it?" And the gay elephant says "The Aristocrats!"

ROFL!!

/thread