LDS More False Doctrine Right There in LDS Scripture!

[Jane_Doe]

An assertion you or your church cannot prove.

An obvious example: consubstantiality is completely foreign to the Bible, and yet this idea critical to the mainstream Christianity. If you doubt this assertion, please post a verse explaining consubstantiality.

 

[KevinSim]

But God does not give us anything and everything we ask for, God is sovereign and we are not.

I'll repeat what I said to Phoebe Ann. Saying that God is sovereign simply means that God can do whatever He wants to do, which means that there's no way to tell whether he that we think is God really is God, or whether he might be an evil impostor trying to deceive us into thinking he is God.

It is a true statement that God "does not give us anything and everything we ask for." But if we can't count on God giving us something, then how can we ever know anything about God at all? People point to the Bible as the source of information about God, but if we can't ask God if God wants us to use the Bible that way, and count on God answering our question, then how can we know that God does want us to use the Bible that way?

For any given person that is trying to discover God's will in her/his life so that s/he can begin to do God's will, once God has given her/him a kernel of truth that s/he can use as a certain foundation for her/his own personal theology, then everytime s/he tries to discover something, s/he should indeed be aware that God might not give her/him a direct answer to a question s/he asks God, because perhaps God might want her/him to figure the matter out on her/his own. But that initial kernel of truth has to come from God directly. Or, DJItalianspur, can you think of another way this person can get that kernel of truth?

 

[KevinSim]

Interesting that Jospeh Smith would not have needed a church in order to repent and find faith, the church does not save anyone. The bible is the truth the church are the people, Joseph should have gone to the word, most prophets, teachers and those who genuinely wanted to seek God would have studied the word diligently and Looked at the lords patten for pray and instruction, they would have repented of their sins and tried to live a life of holiness but Smith instead of doing any of this went into the wood alone..... the rest is history, history recorded by Smith witnessed by no one, 1,500 years after the last book of the bible was complete. It does raise questions does it not?

The biggest question is, why didn't anybody else go to God to ask Him which church God wanted that anybody to embrace?

You said, Joseph should have gone to the word. Why do you say that? Joseph tried to go to the word. He read, and he attended. The preachers at the different churches he attended understood the same verses Joseph read so differently that Joseph realized he, a fairly ignorant farm boy, had no hope of ever understanding what those verses really meant. Unless he could get some input from God. So Joseph went looking for input from God.

Look at Christ's quotes from the Old testament and the apostle Paul's. If these mean different things to different people it totally destroys their arguments and the bible.

DJItalianspur, are you saying that the passages of the Bible don't mean different things to different people? Or are you conceding that therefore the Bible is destroyed? It seems obvious to me that there are so many different opinions on what the passages of the Bible mean that, as I stated above, direct input from God on what they mean is essential.

Even if you use this (I am not claiming you are) to weaken the bible and justify modern day prophets/apostles to same blanket statement could be applied to what they say.

Yes, that is why the modern day prophets/apostles have to be living, so that when people misinterpret them they can state that they're being misinterpreted.

 

[KevinSim]

An assertion you or your church cannot prove. There are posters on here whose churches have extensive history that would contradict your assertion. You and your church would have to prove they are false. And you can't. Repeating your church's lies does not make it true.

Jane Doe made an interesting statement about consubstantiality that I'd like to hear BigDaddy4 respond to. But for me the biggest problem with traditional Chrisitianity as it currently considers the Bible's message to them is the idea of a God who has the power to take souls from not existing to existing, and who therefore almost of necessity has the power to do the reverse, take them from existing to not existing, and yet who chooses to let the unsaved suffer extreme agony from the point of their death on and on forever. BigDaddy4, are you telling me that I can't prove that such a God is a distortion of what the New Testament writers taught? Well, you're right, I can't. But I would ask you a question. If one can't know that a good God would annihilate the souls of the unsaved if He could, rather than let them suffer agony forever, what can we know that a good God would do?

 

[BigDaddy4]

An obvious example: consubstantiality is completely foreign to the Bible, and yet this idea critical to the mainstream Christianity. If you doubt this assertion, please post a verse explaining consubstantiality.

Another assertion you cannot prove. That you object to it is not mine to overcome; your assertion, your burden to provide proof. To quote Jesus in John 3:12 "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"

 

[BigDaddy4]

Jane Doe made an interesting statement about consubstantiality that I'd like to hear BigDaddy4 respond to.

Done.

BigDaddy4, are you telling me that I can't prove that such a God is a distortion of what the New Testament writers taught? Well, you're right, I can't. But I would ask you a question. If one can't know that a good God would annihilate the souls of the unsaved if He could, rather than let them suffer agony forever, what can we know that a good God would do?

You can read your Bible without the lds lenses to know what God has revealed about what HE can and will do.

 

[KevinSim]

You can read your Bible without the lds lenses to know what God has revealed about what HE can and will do.

If I read my Bible "without the lds lenses," what reason would I have to believe it told me "what God has revealed about what HE can and will do"?

In short, why do you, a traditional Christian, believe that God ever intended for the Bible to convey His message?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Another assertion you cannot prove. That you object to it is not mine to overcome; your assertion, your burden to provide proof. To quote Jesus in John 3:12 "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"

If consubstantiality were in the Bible, you'd be able to provide a verse about it. As you are unable to produce a single verse about this subject (cause one doesn't exist), my point in proven.

 

[BigDaddy4]

If I read my Bible "without the lds lenses," what reason would I have to believe it told me "what God has revealed about what HE can and will do"?

In short, why do you, a traditional Christian, believe that God ever intended for the Bible to convey His message?

"It is written..", John 1:1, etc.

 

[BigDaddy4]

If consubstantiality were in the Bible, you'd be able to provide a verse about it. As you are unable to produce a single verse about this subject (cause one doesn't exist), my point in proven.

Again, not my assertion to prove/disprove.

 

[fatboys]

Again, not my assertion to prove/disprove.

Lol

 

[Rescued One]

The biggest question is, why didn't anybody else go to God to ask Him which church God wanted that anybody to embrace?

I asked. He said Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Follow Him.

John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

DJItalianspur, are you saying that the passages of the Bible don't mean different things to different people? Or are you conceding that therefore the Bible is destroyed? It seems obvious to me that there are so many different opinions on what the passages of the Bible mean that, as I stated above, direct input from God on what they mean is essential.

And God gives direct input via the Holy Spirit. He adds to the church daily such as should be saved. We ought to obey God rather than men.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

John 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

"How completely satisfying to turn from our limitations to a God who has none."
- A. W. Tozer

 

[fatboys]

I asked. He said Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Follow Him.

John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



And God gives direct input via the Holy Spirit. He adds to the church daily such as should be saved. We ought to obey God rather than men.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

John 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

"How completely satisfying to turn from our limitations to a God who has none."
- A. W. Tozer

So what did he say about mormons? Or did he pop that on you as well?

 

[KevinSim]

"It is written..", John 1:1, etc.

God intended for the Bible to convey His message, because "It is written"? Huh? How does that follow?

 

[Rescued One]

I'll repeat what I said to Phoebe Ann. Saying that God is sovereign simply means that God can do whatever He wants to do, which means that there's no way to tell whether he that we think is God really is God, or whether he might be an evil impostor trying to deceive us into thinking he is God.

That's ridiculous! If we can't know, God is a liar. You can accuse another of not knowing, but you don't even follow Him. All you do is think that Mormonism trumps what God has revealed. And post after post you say the same thing. It's getting boring.

It is a true statement that God "does not give us anything and everything we ask for."

Every good thing we have, every good thought, every kindness shown to us, every breath we take comes from God. What if we woke up tomorrow with only the things we thanked God for today?

But if we can't count on God giving us something, then how can we ever know anything about God at all? People point to the Bible as the source of information about God, but if we can't ask God if God wants us to use the Bible that way, and count on God answering our question, then how can we know that God does want us to use the Bible that way?

We know because He wrote it!

For any given person that is trying to discover God's will in her/his life so that s/he can begin to do God's will, once God has given her/him a kernel of truth that s/he can use as a certain foundation for her/his own personal theology, then everytime s/he tries to discover something, s/he should indeed be aware that God might not give her/him a direct answer to a question s/he asks God, because perhaps God might want her/him to figure the matter out on her/his own. But that initial kernel of truth has to come from God directly. Or, DJItalianspur, can you think of another way this person can get that kernel of truth?

You are merely rejecting anything that contradicts Mormonism.
God contradicts Mormonism. We don't need a kernel of truth. We are following Him. To reject Christ because Mormons think they have more truth than Jesus, is spiritual death. Mormons reject the true God.

 

[Rescued One]

God intended for the Bible to convey His message, because "It is written"? Huh? How does that follow?

May God forgive your disrespect!
Matthew 4
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Hebrews 4
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

"How completely satisfying to turn from our limitations to a God who has none."
- A. W. Tozer

 

[BigDaddy4]

God intended for the Bible to convey His message, because "It is written"? Huh? How does that follow?

Were the 10 commandments written down? Who originally wrote them?

Exodus 24:12 "The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone with the law and commandments I have written for their instruction.”

What about other books? Besides Phoebe Ann's quotes from Jesus above...

Exodus 32:33 "The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book."

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

Huh. I guess God meant for things to be written down.

 

[KevinSim]

That's ridiculous! If we can't know, God is a liar. You can accuse another of not knowing, but you don't even follow Him. All you do is think that Mormonism trumps what God has revealed. And post after post you say the same thing. It's getting boring.

I never said that Mormonism trumps what God has revealed. I simply said one should have some good reason for believing God did reveal something before one concludes God did reveal it.

We know because He wrote it!

Phoebe Ann, how do you know God wrote it?

You are merely rejecting anything that contradicts Mormonism.
God contradicts Mormonism. We don't need a kernel of truth. We are following Him. To reject Christ because Mormons think they have more truth than Jesus, is spiritual death. Mormons reject the true God.

How do you know that you are following God? How do you know that you're not following an impostor who's trying to deceive you into thinking he's God?

 

[KevinSim]

Matthew 4
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Hebrews 4
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Phoebe Ann, how do you know that any of these passages of the New Testament tell the truth about God's attitude toward scripture? And how do you know that the scripture they're talking about is the Bible?

 

[KevinSim]

Were the 10 commandments written down? Who originally wrote them?

Exodus 24:12 "The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone with the law and commandments I have written for their instruction.”

What about other books? Besides Phoebe Ann's quotes from Jesus above...

Exodus 32:33 "The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book."

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

Huh. I guess God meant for things to be written down.

If Exodus 32 and Revelation 20 are telling the truth about God's intentions, then God meant for things to be written down. How do you know that they are telling the truth about God's intentions?