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LDS More False Doctrine Right There in LDS Scripture!
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KevinSim
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BigDaddy4, you're the one that suggested I read the Bible without my LDS lenses on. That's all I'm doing. If I didn't have my LDS lenses on, then I wouldn't know whether the Bible was telling me the truth about God or not. So I'm asking you how you know that the Bible is telling us the truth about God.
I don't. But if I take my LDS lenses off, I don't know that they are either. Without those lenses all the Bible is, is a book that many people think speaks for God, like the Vedas, the Gathas, and the Adi Granth. I'm curious how you know that the Bible actually does speak for God, in a way that doesn't apply to those other three books.
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BigDaddy4
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By faith. Hebrews 11:1.
By Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Acts 17:11, Isaiah 40:8, 1 Peter 1:25, etc.
By historical evidence of names, places, events in it; as well as the thousands upon thousands of manuscripts from different time periods and writers all have a consistent message.
And most importantly, by my Savior Jesus Christ. ("It is written...", the Gospels, the NT as a whole, the Bible as a whole, the Holy Spirit)
Many have tried to disprove the Bible. None have succeeded. No other books or sources needed.
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KevinSim
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Faith is a life-changing belief that doesn't involve knowledge. By saying you know by faith that the Bible is telling the truth about God is saying you don't know the Bible is telling the truth about God at all. How can you know by scripture that the Bible is telling the truth about God, without appealing to the truthfulness of the very book whose truthfulness you're trying to demonstrate?
Then you went on to say that you know the Bible is telling the truth about God by "historical evidence of names, places, events in it." Are you saying that because the Bible is right about so many other things, it must be right about what it says about God?
Finally, you said by your Savior Jesus Christ. Are you saying that Jesus Christ has said that the Bible is telling the truth about God? If so, how do you know that Jesus Christ has said that? Are you simply referring to places in the Bible that quote Jesus as saying that? Which would get you embroiled in circular reasoning again? Or are you talking about something Jesus has said exterior to the Bible?
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Those who can't see or hear never learn the truth. God opens our eyes and ears.
Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
John 14
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 10
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Galatians 3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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Why do you ask? Joseph Smith claimed that he saw two gods. Why do you believe him?
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KevinSim
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Phoebe Ann, whether or not I have good reasons for believing Smith actually saw Jesus and His Father, you're still going to have to deal with the question of how you know that the being that inspired your form of Christianity actually was the good God who controls the universe, and wasn't instead an evil impostor trying to deceive you into thinking that he was God.
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God gives me peace and He tells us in His word how we can know, but there are always others who deny the truth and are blind to it. They ask questions to which they don't want answers because, in their minds, they have predetermined the answers are wrong.
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The word of God reveals truth to the sheep. The others are blind to the truth. The answers are in the Bible. People should be willing to read the Bible instead of repeatedly asking how I know. The Bible tells believers how they can know.
The ones who repeatedly ask me questions ignore the questions I ask them. That's unfortunate because if they answered the questions they'd be explaining what they claim non-Mormons don't understand.
What does this mean:"How do you know your not up in the night over anyone else?"
I've never heard of someone "being up in the night over someone else." Is that a phrase used in Utah?
The ones who repeatedly ask me questions ignore the questions I ask them. That's unfortunate because if they answered the questions they'd be explaining what they claim non-Mormons don't understand.
What does this mean:"How do you know your not up in the night over anyone else?"
I've never heard of someone "being up in the night over someone else." Is that a phrase used in Utah?
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Why can't a person do both? Read the Bible for their own spiritual nourishment, and ask you about your epistemology to better understand your beliefs?
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KevinSim
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Phoebe Ann, I have read the Bible several times. It's not for lack of reading the Bible that I don't know what you're talking about. Can you tell me where in the Bible it tells the answers to the questions I've been asking?
Okay, you asked me why I believed Joseph Smith when he claimed he saw two gods. My answer is that I don't believe him. The only thing Joseph Smith ever said that I believed was that I could ask God a question and count on God answering that question. I believe that because I believe God loves me, and wants me, personally, to know His will.
There, I've answered your question. Now please answer mine.
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It is very difficult for us Mormons to do that, we are trained to believe what the Bible says. Yes we understand there are idioms; the Lord would gather us under his wing as a hen would gather her chicks, the lake of fire is a picture of the pain those who reject the Savior must suffer.
But when Stephen looked up into heaven and saw the Lord standing on the right hand of the Father we believe he did. We believe God has a right hand, we don't have a metaphysical understanding of the Bible. We have not been trained to think that way.
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