More and More lazy stay at home wives

[ProudMomxmany]

Inkachu,


In have known egalitarian couples and watched how they handled this. More often then not, the more dominant partner would usually win the day in these cases. Sometimes the dominant partner is the woman, other times it is the man. Neither would call themselves the leader, but one was definitely more dominant than the other. Now by dominant, I don't mean they dominate the relationship completely, or always get their way. But I have yet to meet a married couple, whether egalitarian or traditional, where things are completely even, one usually gives in to the other more often than not when there are disagreements on what to do.

So in a traditional marriage, I will always listen to my wife's opinion(I believe God requires me to hear her out). We will have a good discussion of both of our views on a decision(many times with the kids, but other times it might be finances or some other decision). Sometimes my wife will convince me that her opinion is the better way to go and I will not only hear her opinion, but also implement her opinion.

Other times we are able to reach a compromise somewhere between my opinion and hers and we do that.

But there are times when we simply cannot agree. There are times when there is no compromise. I have heard her opinion, yet she has not said anything that has changed mine. I can't see a compromise position either. In those cases I usually say something like this "You know I love you, I hear you. I have repeated back to you what I think you are saying, and why you feel the way you do. You agreed I understood you correctly. But after hearing you out, I simply do not agree. You know I believe that God wants me to lead our home, and when we cannot come to agreement, I have to make an executive decision. I hope you will support me in this".

Sometimes my wife will support me, sometimes she does not and that's when things are not peaceful. But I cannot "let go" of "differing opinions" simply for the sake of peace. That would violate my own convictions about what I believe God has called me to do as leader of my home.

But aren't you being the "dominant" partner by demanding your way? There's a better way to handle things...in a case where my husband and I cannot agree (few and far between), the issue gets tabled and discussed at a later date.

The times my husband has "demanded" something against my better judgment have been also few and far between...however, if a couple is in harmony on the major issues, the need for a demand should be rare, if ever. In all the years we have been married, I think we disagreed to a draw maybe twice. One involved buying a home (I was opposed because I thought it was too expensive) and the other involved a duty station. In one case I ended up "getting my way" (the house) after carefully crafting my case with hard facts and in the other I didn't (which ended up being a disaster for the whole family). A smart man will realize that his wife sees things differently, she actually tends to be more practical when it comes to family matters.

However, being bound and determined to have your way against your wife's better judgment is not being a "leader", it's being a dictator. I actually have a more forceful personality than my husband does, I don't back down from confrontation EVER and have been (unfavorably) compared to a drill instructor. But, I know when to dial it back, I know when my husband "means business" and its time for me to shut up. I also know when to tell my husband that he's making a BIG mistake and there is no way I will go along with his plan of action. He's learned over the years that if I get to that point, there's a really good reason he hasn't thought about.

I know what you're going to say about that...but, I don't see where you are so bound and determined to put down the "egalitarian" position. There's a fine line between being a "leader" and a "dictator". A smart LEADER will listen to reasons and consider them carefully before making a decision. A DICTATOR will do whatever they darn well please.

In marriage, it is best to check your ego at the door and realize that you are half of a partnership. It may not be 50-50 but it sure isn't 99-1 (or less).

 

[mkgal1]

No matter what framework you believe marriage ought to be.......neither should involve domineering behavior.....coercion.....manipulation. Those *all* go against a Christ-like love (that's freely given).

Someone that you may want to listen to (that's within your belief set, Musing) is here--if you're interested, of course :

Diminishing Dominance | Marriage Today | Jimmy Evans, Karen Evans - YouTube

 

[Avniel]

An example would be me right now at home with the baby my wife is shopping, I cleaned up, I did the dishes, took out the trash, washed the floors, cleaned the kitchen, wiped the walls....all while talking on the phone, studying and being on CF. Not to mention fed, changed diapers and sang a very off key rendition of bob marley's no woman no cry. I feel like if you are home and someone goes out they should come back to a clean house.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

An example would be me right now at home with the baby my wife is shopping, I cleaned up, I did the dishes, took out the trash, washed the floors, cleaned the kitchen, wiped the walls....all while talking on the phone, studying and being on CF. Not to mention fed, changed diapers and sang a very off key rendition of bob marley's no woman no cry. I feel like if you are home and someone goes out they should come back to a clean house.

How sweet of you!!! I know she will appreciate all your hard work.

 

[HannahT]

However, being bound and determined to have your way against your wife's better judgment is not being a "leader", it's being a dictator. I actually have a more forceful personality than my husband does, I don't back down from confrontation EVER and have been (unfavorably) compared to a drill instructor. But, I know when to dial it back, I know when my husband "means business" and its time for me to shut up. I also know when to tell my husband that he's making a BIG mistake and there is no way I will go along with his plan of action. He's learned over the years that if I get to that point, there's a really good reason he hasn't thought about.

We don't have the 'final say' deal in our relationship, and we have never labeled the marriage traditional, egalitarian, etc. We just don't do labels, because that involves boxes. People get to strange when you use a label, because you always have to 'live' their definition of it. We just aren't bound by boxes. Life gets restrictive when you come to a issue that can't be resolved properly within it.

Neither of us tend to back down from confrontation, but we have learned that one party is better that certain types of confrontation than the other. We go with the one that will benefit us as the whole better. After so many years? Its pretty much automatic at this point, and we don't even need to say a word.

If we hit a brick wall? We step back from the circumstance, and we address it again after we have had time to think on it separately. At times we may agree to go one way or another...or we find a compromise. I find people that make comments about how couples like this can never make any decisions rather ignorant. Its about respect after all. When there is respect for one another? Its not that hard, and its a character flaw to me if you can't find that place 99% of the time. lol yet, they would rather fight about the 1%! Who does that??

Quite frankly, I feel the 'last word' in much too many circumstances I have seen is based in selfishness. Your just setting yourself up for failure, and no doubt the 'last word' party will blame the other one when it blows up in the face. You see it too often as well. They say, "Well if you just went along like I told you too..." (eye roll) they have no one to blame but themselves, and sadly most of the time they won't own that either if that is the attitude. You see it all the time in life, and its hardly gender based. Its human based selfishness, and stubbornness.

I tend to be the more mellow of the two. He has made the comment more than once when I have gone off the deep end, and I'm angry? He knows there is a BIG reason for it, and jumps up and takes notice. He pedals very softly, because he knows he missed something big.

I only remember ONCE when he almost wanted to pull that with me. Keep in mind we were YOUNG, and just had a baby. His brother had approached him, and his father with a 'ground floor' business deal. I'm sure some of you have heard about this type - give us money because we are growing fast, and can't keep up! We will sell you $5000/lots to help us buy office equipment for our new building, and your return on your investment will be HUGE! The H bought the sales pitch hook, line and sinker. I told him if they were so great the banks would shoot them a loan, and NO we were NOT going in on that deal! It smelled bad! Yep, big fight over that. His Dad and both his brothers went for it, and he stewed for a week because he didn't. Within 6 months? They lost their money, and I got to stick my tongue out at him and giggle (Yes, he was over the 'stewing' part at that point). It would have been different if we could afford to lose that money, but we couldn't.

(giggles) I guess if you asked him whom the leader was in the home? He would pretty much tell you that depends on the circumstance. We both use our leadership to benefit the whole. (ahem) I think he knows that I would either knock his block off or laugh my head off he used the 'last word because I'm the leader of this HOME" deal. Matter of fact he would expect that reaction. He would never do to to me due to respect of his wife. I find it demeaning, and for that reason he would never go there.

 

[ValleyGal]

That statement is also true of Christian brothers and sisters that criticize a brother in pain with very little, and in some cases, no building up

Right, which is why I recognized how I was taking part in sin and tried to change the tone of my responses.

There are those who think criticism is necessary sometimes for growth, but there is a huge difference between giving someone loving and gentle feedback and tearing down who they are as a person or matter of character.

For example, it always, always helps to sandwich a negative feedback between two positives. It is also recommended that you frame the negative feedback as a matter of behaviour. Here's an example of how, imo, things could have worked differently with his wife:

"Wifey, I want you to know how much I love you and appreciate how hard you worked when you were nursing. It couldn't have been easy to put in long shifts and then come home and have to also help at home. But I've noticed you are having a hard time getting as much done since your accident and I'm concerned that it's about more than just pain. Maybe you could help me understand what would help you find it easier to be able to do as much as you used to, without experiencing the pain."

That sounds a whole lot better, addresses the behaviour and some of the possible causes, and recognizes that there is understanding on the part of the speaker. Hoewver, (and this may not be the case - I don't know, I'm not there) if he repeatedly mulls it over in his mind that she is lazy as he has stated here numerous times, it will come out in his language. For out of the heart, the mouth speaks. It could very easily come across like "Wife, you are not keeping up with your housework and that is not fitting with my idea of what a SAHM/W should do. You are disobedient to your doctor who said you need to push yourself to do more. You are lazy around the house and I think you could be doing way more than you are. It is not right that I as the husband should be also doing your work."

The second comes off as an attack on her character - she is a person who is lazy, disobedient, neglectful, and not living up to other's expectations. Whenever anyone is in conflict, it should always be observable behaviour that is criticized, not the person or character behind those behaviours. It's one thing to say "I was hoping you could clean the bathroom today" as opposed to "you are so lazy you didn't even clean the bathroom like I asked." Huge difference. And I'm saying that criticism of character is a judgement against them as a person. But criticism of a behaviour is without judgement and leaves the person's character intact.

Objectivity is best when offering a negative feedback, and it should never be passed off as criticism.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[Avniel]

How sweet of you!!! I know she will appreciate all your hard work.

I mean but it is vice versa. I remember on the days my grandpa would stay home and my grandma went out he would clean up the house. When he went to work she would clean up the house. I think it's a respect thing, it's appreciating the other person and wanting them to come home to a clean environment. It is my belief that you are at home and someone is doing something outside you should clean up.

It's really takes about 30 to 45 mins.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By ValeyGal
There are those who think criticism is necessary sometimes for growth, but there is a huge difference between giving someone loving and gentle feedback and tearing down who they are as a person or matter of character.

Some more great wisdom from ValleyGal!

 

[Autumnleaf]

What? Umm..."correction"? Sorry buddy, I'm a grown up. I respect my husband but if he were to "correct" me, there'd be trouble. I do not need "correction". I'm not a child, I'm not an inferior being. I also will be respected as an adult, as someone with her own intellect. Respect is earned not summarily given. If women are not respecting their husbands, its up to the husband to figure out why and rectify the situation to where the wife can respect her husband.

But "correction"...nope, I don't think so. We correct the children, we correct the dogs, he doesn't correct me. He can speak to me, he can tell me what he's feeling or what is on his mind and we can discuss it, but he cannot "correct" me. That would not fly.

My bad. I was talking about people who are full of pride so they won't listen to people who have any Biblical authority over them. You obviously don't fit into that category.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Since when is it a husband's job to "correct" his wife? She's not a child or a dog. If he has a problem with her, he needs to approach her with love, respect, and kindness. Not slap her on the wrist and send her to her room.

Since pretty close to the beginning. Shortly after the time A&E ate from the tree of Knowledge.

I think sometimes love is mistaken for searching for word... ... ... ... got a friend like this... ... its a spineless form of love. The kind where the threat, 'if you don't do what I want you to then I won't love you anymore' would coerce them into acceptance of nonsense.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

My bad. I was talking about people who are full of pride so they won't listen to people who have any Biblical authority over them. You obviously don't fit into that category.

Biblical authority has nothing to do with it. I will not be treated like an inferior or a child. There are better ways to handle it than "discipline". I prefer those. Not to mention, after over 30 years of marriage, I think we have things pretty well figured out. I don't listen to the pontificating about "authority" or "traditional" or "biblical" marriage anymore. I'm married, been married a very long time, raised and or raising a house full of kids and so far, it's been a pretty successful ride even with the problems and issues that come up in a marriage.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Since pretty close to the beginning. Shortly after the time A&E ate from the tree of Knowledge.

I think sometimes love is mistaken for searching for word... ... ... ... got a friend like this... ... its a spineless form of love. The kind where the threat, 'if you don't do what I want you to then I won't love you anymore' would coerce them into acceptance of nonsense.

That is the biggest crock of baloney I've ever heard. I don't need any of that manipulation rubbish. Like I said above...I've been married a very long time...I don't make threats, I don't manipulate. First of all, I see no reason for it and second, as someone on the autism spectrum, I'm unable to understand or perform those sorts of things. I am direct. I say what I'm thinking and I don't sugar coat anything. My husband has learned over the years to respect me and respect my decision making processes. Its served us well over the years. Success speaks for itself.

 

[HannahT]

My bad. I was talking about people who are full of pride so they won't listen to people who have any Biblical authority over them. You obviously don't fit into that category.

Okay. I'm officially confused.



Someone has biblical authority over another on this thread?

I think I missed something.

 

[HannahT]

Since pretty close to the beginning. Shortly after the time A&E ate from the tree of Knowledge.

I think sometimes love is mistaken for searching for word... ... ... ... got a friend like this... ... its a spineless form of love. The kind where the threat, 'if you don't do what I want you to then I won't love you anymore' would coerce them into acceptance of nonsense.

Believers are to correct other believers - so it goes full circle with everyone.

Sadly, at times the way the culture defines 'correct' they tend to add aspects that don't belong there. Human's have been doing this since time began. I mean its suppose to be mean pointing out a wrong, and not this discipline others added to the definition.

Its not uncommon for humans in the realm of the world - or the faith realm - to use manipulation, coercion, etc to have others believe as they believe. That way they use that correction to feel superior. Its rather ugly.

I mean you see it in discussions of politics. If you aren't on our side we get to define you as we see it, and thus this justifies our contempt able behavior towards you. In the faith world you have those that use doctrine to say they are living the right way, and we have the power/authority to let you know you won't be going to heaven since you don't.

Both maybe considered 'correct' with aspects added to the definition. Its a control aspect. Its not the proper definition of correct though.

Sadly, the culture encourages people to use the added aspects of 'correct', and they pretty much leave the 'lovingly' part out of it. lol or they define what 'lovingly' means to justify their actions.

We humans mess up so much....

 

[mkgal1]

Well said, Hannah.

I heard a message recently that was we are to "speak the truth in love with tact".
Adding just those two words (IMO) clarifies a lot.

Tact~ Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.

 

[Inkachu]

Hear, hear, Mkgal.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

I will not say what I'm thinking but think of this...you're on marriage #2 and I'm still married to the first boy I ever kissed...

Muse said "I don't believe because we think something works, that makes it automatically right. That is a common American belief, but it is far from Biblical. Some gay couples that have been married for years and have adopted and raised children together - say the same thing. The "whatever is easiest, least path of resistance, and whatever feels good approach" is man's approach, not God's approach"

See...that's another thing...you have NO idea what my marriage really looks like. I haven't divulged a lot of detail but let's just say that we've been tried by fire in more ways than one and well...here we are.

Also...if you're so into the whole "biblical" marriage thing...why a divorce? Did you have biblical grounds for it? If you didn't then why did you divorce and then remarry? Were you biblically free to remarry?

Be careful here...you can say a lot of things but when it comes to my marriage and God's will for my marriage, I know what's what. I would no sooner ask for marital counsel from you than I would my 10 year old son.