More and More lazy stay at home wives

[HannahT]

I don't believe because we think something works, that makes it automatically right. That is a common American belief, but it is far from Biblical. Some gay couples that have been married for years and have adopted and raised children together - say the same thing. The "whatever is easiest, least path of resistance, and whatever feels good approach" is man's approach, not God's approach.

Except your not speaking to gay couples, nor couples that have taken the easiest, least path of resistance, and go with whatever feels good approach.

So I guess the 'Not God's Approach' doesn't apply here.

So the rest of what you mentioned clearly doesn't apply either to the marriages in question.

 

[HannahT]

No offense Muse, because I'm sure it wasn't your intent. Yet, to say to Christian couples that have worked hard, and been through h$ll at times during their many years together that age and experience hasn't 'gleamed' some truth to us over this time? Its rather insulting.

I find God as my true authority, and because the rest are mere mortals. It makes perfect sense to question their approach at times, especially when they start preaching to others that their 'place' starts with gender alone.

To me authority is knowledge and wisdom. When those are present? Fruits of spirit are not far behind, and people from far and wide can recognize this. They do not demand their place at the table, but give it up to others. They aren't asking others to acknowledge them in the way you see way to often today. God doesn't say they should demand the recognition that some seem to feel they are entitled to. They are at peace at where they are, because they believe that is where God placed them.

Those types of authorities are going to be naturally respected, and admired. Yes, they are a leader in which people follow. They have no need to manipulate or trick people into following - nor do they have to remind you of the 'gender'. That's not to say you don't give value to others at all. The bible is very clear about that as well.

The difference to me about a true authority/leader, etc - is that this is a natural aspect of this person. Its not forced, but just is. Its not pushed, because it doesn't have to be. When people feel entitled to something in this realm? It doesn't make them safe emotionally or otherwise. It makes them look power hungry, and people naturally avoid this for many reasons. Its never wise to get to close to a person like that.

 

[ValleyGal]

Imo, "God's approach" works in all cultures, in all eras. For a while in history, western culture shows what Musing calls a "traditional, biblical" way to do marriage. There are cultures and eras where that cultural norm do not work. A sociological study of marriage and family shows that there are times and cultures where it was absolutely necessary for women to participate as much or more in providing for the family as men, which meant going out from the home to work. Often, this led to total neglect of the "home". There were also cultures where male/female did not matter; what mattered was social role. For example, the First Nations - from the little I know of their culture prior to man's arrival, some of them lived in longhouses, where there were upwards of a dozen related families living together. There would be communal dinners prepared by two or three, a few who would make leather, a few who were healers (and these healers went and gathered their own herbs and prepared their own remedies), there were the leaders, there were the warriors, etc. And to top it off, some were more matriarchal than patriarchal. If someone was disabled, the community would find jobs for them to do.

When Europeans settled here, they brought along their cultural idea of how God's word should apply. But the thing is that if you left European culture out of it, you could still apply God's word in their culture. In fact, there are whole reserves who have done this, effectively practicing the Christian faith in their own traditional culture. Because culture is such a strong, foundational construct, it is very hard to imagine how God's word would be able to be effective in any but the one we learn from infancy.

I am sure this is why Musing is so firmly set in his ideology and is unwilling to challenge it. And that's okay, so long as he does not go around judging a more egalitarian approach as "unbiblical" or missing the mark from "God's approach."

The question is how to help Musing according to his own cultural and psychological and spiritual construct.

 

[bcmom]

I think it's society as a whole that is getting lazier but perhaps that's my perspective.
I was a stay at home mom when my sons were little and I didn't have time if TV programs, talking to family and all the other stuff you said your wife did. But I made my family my full-time job. When they were in preschool and kindergarten, I volunteered in the school at least 20 hrs a week, I made play dough and baked for their classes, I went on field trips, I took my sons on out to the park, we played games together. Plus I took care of all the cooking and cleaning. My life was my family and I loved every minute of it.
So, not all stay at home moms eat bons bons and watch soaps

In another thread, ValleyGal started a thread about lazy and entitled men who don't want to do anything(including providing for their wives). I agreed that was definitely an issue(and I know of some male relatives and others that fit that description).

I said in that thread I believe we have an equally bad problem today with the problem of lazy house wives. As someone who believes in traditional marriage I have no problem at all with stay at home moms, in fact I think its preferable if the couple agrees to it and its is economically viable.

I would also like to say I have seen women who are the very model of what a stay at home mom should be. They treat taking care of their home and their children like a real job, there are many women that bring great honor to the position of Stay at home house wife.

I said something about a woman should work 8 hours a day just like her husband(and many husbands these days work 10 hours a day). That does not mean she is working the same schedule as him. That does not mean she can't find some chill time to nap or watch her favorite shows, or talk to friends during the day. Knowing that she will have dinner and other things in the evening to do that makes perfect sense that her 8 to 10 hours a day will be broken up, unlike if her husband works a 10 hour day with a half hour lunch break.

I would also agree its a very different thing for a woman who has infants or small (pre-school age children at home) as they can be a lot of work. But what about stay at homes whose kids are in school full time? That's a different story.

I am also not saying the one who works and comes home has to do nothing. That person can help with the children and other things around the house as well.

I have had the unique experience of working from home full time for the last 7 years. Before that I worked from home on and off for about 3 years before that.

So I have had a front and center seat to see what some stay at home mom's do and do not do. My office was in the middle of it all on the kitchen table and then moved to the living room at night, so I had front row seats. None of this is conjecture or what I thought was going on - it is what I saw with my own eyes.

My first wife would sit for hours a day, watching television or talking to her mom or friends on the phone. When she was not doing that, she was on facebook or craigslist buying things. Then when she was really bored she would go shopping(not for food), but for a bunch of stuff we did not need. Then she would turn around and sell it on craigslist when she got bored of it.

I had to do the vacuuming the cleaning, and half the taking care of the kids in between my working 10 to 12 hours a day programming for two jobs. She rarely would cook, and if she did it was to order out or pull something from the freezer. Anything fresh or homemade was pretty much cooked by me. The house was usually a wreck and only was cleaned if I cleaned it most of the time.

The rare time she would really clean is when we were going to have family or friends over, then she had to put on the fake show how great a stay at home mom she was.

I had a lot of pent of frustration to say the least toward the laziness of my first wife. One of the few pleasures I got after my divorce was final(after she ran off with a ex boyfriend from highschool who she was having an affair with(she went to Gym to "work out")) was for me to be able to truly tell her how lazy of a person she was. It was therapeutic.

My second wife worked full time as a nurse when we first got married. She even asked me it would bother me that she worked full time and I was married to a stay at home mom before her. I said I wanted something different because my last wife, and few other stay at home wives of friends of mine were so lazy it drove me nuts, I had given up on stay at home wife's.

I said if she was working 10 hours a day at the hospital then it would not bother me if I was doing more of the house work since we were both working. The problem with wife #2 was and still is - she took advantage of that and only did about 30% around the house, and I did about 70% of cooking and laundry and other household things.

After she had her car accident last year and now is off work for neck and back pain I do about 90% now of everything, including the kids when I have them on the weekends.

Even the pain doctor that I take her to see said it is not good for her to be on the couch 12 to 14 hours a day and then she goes to bed. He said her pain appears to be manageable now and she should be doing more as it will help with her recovery(and he said laying around all day will not).

So with that being said tell me why you do or don't think we have a problem with lazy house wives?

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[musingsofacac]

Removed by OP.

 

[ValleyGal]

Then you are making judgements against my marriage, calling my marriage "unbiblical" simply because we have a different interpretation of biblical principles than you do. Imo, that is really rude, in spite of all I've been trying to do to work alongside you in your own traditionalist approach, even though I totally disagree with it. I have never made a judgement call that your marriage is "unbliblical" because of it, and I think you are in error for making that kind of judgement against mine. Help yourself. Figure it out on your own. I won't be insulted or judged by you or anyone else here based on my own understanding of the Bible.

Imo, you have just deserted pretty much one of the only people here who have actually stood up for you.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

"Gender roles" attempt to force everyone into one certain mold. ALL women need to be "keepers at home" and ALL men need to be the "breadwinners". All women need to have the children, keep the house and do all the domestic stuff while all men need to do the yardwork, car repairs, home maintenance.

This doesn't work in real life. I know women who just aren't domestic and would rather hang themselves than cook a meal. I know men who detest DIY and car maintenance and would rather cook a meal than change the oil in their car.

No matter what you may want to believe, I believe you are incorrect in attempting to rigidly define such hierarchal and gender roles. Every single person has been endowed with certain gifts and talents. I really don't believe that those are limited to gender. The secret is that each couple has to find what works for THEM. For their specific circumstances, abilities and talents. I know a few SAHDs who are very happy in that role while their wives work at a demanding career and pay the bills. I know some SAHMs who gave up their careers for their families and are miserable.

Claiming that only one set up is "biblical" is presuming to speak for God. As I've attempted to point out to you, Paul's writings are heavily influenced by the culture of the 1st century middle east. That was his culture and construct. His teachings on marriage, in many ways, were quite radical. However, if one goes back to the basics, the Gospels, there is no prohibition on women's roles in marriage. None at all. So...you can either take Paul's 1st century cultural construct OR you can take the Gospels.

You can also go back to Genesis and the creation myths. God created Eve from his SIDE, not his head, not his foot. His SIDE. The symbolism there is something that knocked the ancient world on its heels. The implication there is equality.

I find many, many problems with your "biblical" interpretation of gender roles in marriage, and as a couple who started out in that hard-core, patriarchal mindset, and discovered that it was not biblical, not "traditional" and just plain wrong after much study and counsel with those who knew much more than we did about biblical history, culture and even the meaning of the original Greek, we had to adjust our mindset. We no longer endorse that sort of thinking, we no longer believe it is correct. Has that changed us? No...we just stopped trying to force the square pegs into round holes.

And...I am THRILLED that my husband's manhood doesn't feel threatened by his doing a load of laundry or me doing the car repairs. I find the hard-core "traditional" mindset is common among those who need constant validation of themselves, their worth and their manhood.

 

[ValleyGal]

You can also go back to Genesis and the creation myths. God created Eve from his SIDE, not his head, not his foot. His SIDE. The symbolism there is something that knocked the ancient world on its heels. The implication there is equality.

He also gave them dominion, as per Gen 1:26-28. Roles for each are man-made, not God-made.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

ValleyGal,

There is nothing wrong with me or any other traditional person who says they believe based on their own Biblical study and conviction from that study that the egalitarian approach to marriage is unbiblical.

There are many Christians who believe that infant baptism is unbiblical, and it is a firm Biblical conviction. To say so is not wrong. Does that mean there are not good Christians on the other side? Sure there are.

Let me try and state this another way. There are three ways to look at this egalitarian vs traditional issue:

1. The Traditional approach is the only Biblical approach to marriage.
2. The Egalitarian approach is the only Biblical approach to marriage.
3. The Traditional and Egalitarian approaches can both be equally Biblical approaches to marriage, or a blending of the two is also acceptable.

I believe number 1 is correct.

I also fully recognize that there are differences between traditionalists. There are some traditionalists that embrace the hierarchy model but don't embrace the gender role portions. Others embrace both the hierarchy and gender roles. Personally I believe the hierarchy model is built upon the gender roles so the two cannot be separated.

Let me ask you a key question (and yes, I have read this whole silly thread...)

How's that been going for you?

If you are the 'head' who is responsible, ultimately, for the conduct of those below you, then you have failed. If you are "in command" and one below you is 'failing' at their job (according to you) then you should be fired. When a corporation performs poorly, they look to the CEO, not the low man on the totem pole. I'm only responding based on your perception of marriage here, not mine. I wonder how long before you're fired?

I also wonder how many times the 'low man' has gone to 'Human Resources' (as it were) and filed a complaint. I'm sure Christ has heard it all from you about your wife not fulfilling her role, but I'm curious how many times He's heard about you and which might carry more weight.

But enough of that...

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if one is complementarian, egalitarian, hierarchical, whatever. The command is the same - You are to love your wife as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her. If you see any qualifiers there, you can certainly tell me, but I sure don't. Even the most rigid complementarians I have read do not deny that this is your duty. When you said "I do", you did.

 

[bcmom]

Praise God for women like you. Your husband is a blessed man. I agree with you that as a society we are getting lazier(both men and women).

Thanks musing. I consider myself a blessed woman to have such a loving a understanding husband.

 

[mkgal1]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if one is complementarian, egalitarian, hierarchical, whatever. The command is the same - You are to love your wife as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her. If you see any qualifiers there, you can certainly tell me, but I sure don't. Even the most rigid complementarians I have read do not deny that this is your duty. When you said "I do", you did.

Absolutely agree!

I think something we also (most likely) all will agree on is that leadership (Christ-like leadership) isn't "bossing".

This article is actually from Forbes.....but (IMO) it applies very well to the topic:

So what is leadership?

DEFINITION: Leadership is a process of social influence, which maximizes the efforts of others, towards the achievement of a goal.~What Is Leadership? - Forbes

 

[mkgal1]

I thought this was an excellent point as well:

Leadership isn’t management. This is the big one. Leadership and management are not synonymous. You have 15 people in your downline and P&L responsibility? Good for you, hopefully you are a good manager. Good management is needed. Managers need to plan, measure, monitor, coordinate, solve, hire, fire, and so many other things. Typically, managers manage things. Leaders lead people.

In reading your posts, Musing, there seems to be a lack of relational needs mentioned and a heavy focus on "things".

 

[ProudMomxmany]

If husbands truly believe in "traditional, biblical" marriage then they take this seriously. Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it". This brings in the concept of servant-leadership with the husband acting as Christ did...Mark 10:42-45 "42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

So...for a man to "lead" his family, he must serve his family. That doesn't equal just bringing home a paycheck, but truly being a servant. A servant does what needs to be done without keeping score, without complaining, without comparing. A TRULY Godly husband would do the same. What that looks like in each individual family will vary. Yes, husbands are called to be the "leaders" of their homes. They will also answer for their families. They will answer for divorces, either their own or their children's, they will answer for the salvation of their wives (it is a Christian husband's job to feed his wife the Word). They will answer for their children (it is a Christian father's job to teach his children the ways of the Lord).

So...if you're fussing about your wife, then you need to look in the mirror and figure out where YOUR leadership is falling short. If she's not accepting of your leadership then YOU are the one at fault. That, my friend, is biblical.

(I used the KJV since that was quoted to me...I personally prefer either the ESV or NASB for biblical accuracy)

 

[sdmsanjose]

ValleyGal
The question is how to help Musing according to his own cultural and psychological and spiritual construct.


By Muse
“…the egalitarian approach to marriage is unbiblical.”


ValleyGal
Then you are making judgments against my marriage, calling my marriage "unbiblical" simply because we have a different interpretation of biblical principles than you do. Imo, that is really rude

Muse you stepped over the line my brother!

I think that ValleyGal is one of the only women of the very few on this thread that has tried to help you with the right spirit. There have been other women that made some comments but ValleyGal has actually stuck up for you. Some of these women have not been balanced in their ganging up on you but ValleyGal has been balanced and then you go and judge her marriage as unbiblical!

If you interpret the Bible and are convienced that the Traditional model is the right one for you then apply that to yourself and stop worrying about others. You have insulted and judged ValleyGal!

Muse, stop alienating the very few allies that you have and shut up about other people’s marriages. You are here because you want us to give you ideas and perspectives about your marriage and situation with your wife. You are not here to judge someone else’s marriage.

My posts have been trying to add in the Christian approach of building up a man that is in pain. What do you do but point out to all these women that their marriage is unbiblical. You have not been appointed as the head Pharisee of this thread so knock it off!

Also, you stepped over the line by inferring that ProudMom’s daughters have an unbiblical marriage. You need to apply your interpretations about the Biblical position on marriage to your marriage and leave your judgments about Proudmom’s daughters out of this thread and any another thread.

Muse, you have done some good things for your wife and children and your enthusiasm for he scriptures are admirable and I believe you are a good man but your insensitive insults to ValleyGal and Proudmom and others reeks of someone more interested in your own interpretation of the law rather than the spirit of Christ.

The spirit of the Christian family is more important than your interpretation or their interpretation of the biblical position on marriage roles.

I can understand having a few posts where you or anyone can get a little heated , I have done that from time to time, but these 300 posts of the same thing is getting little old for me, how about you?

 

[hijklmnop]

I find it more amusing than anything else that Musing came here throwing stones at "lazy stay-at-home moms", the truth was soon revealed that he only thinks there is an epidemic of women like these because he's had one failed marriage and is currently in one unhappy marriage, people try to give him honest and hopefully helpful advice that might offer him some hope in terms of saving the second marriage, and he responds by Bible-thumping and judging all of our happy, successful egalitarian marriages as unbiblical.

Neato!

Common denominator in upsetting, judging and Hurting those around him? Musing!

Musing, your beliefs and your arrogant refusal to re-examine them or at least not pound everyone else over the head with them makes you impossible to deal with online. I don't wonder for one second why your marriage is in deep trouble. You have no concept of respect for different people. You really need to learn what humility is and apply it to your life in order for anything to change, IMO. I sincerely hope you do so before causing your wife more pain and losing another marriage, for the sake of your children more than anything. Seriously, think about it. What you're doing isn't working. Try something new.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

I find it more amusing than anything else that Musing came here throwing stones at "lazy stay-at-home moms", the truth was soon revealed that he only thinks there is an epidemic of women like these because he's had one failed marriage and is currently in one unhappy marriage, people try to give him honest and hopefully helpful advice that might offer him some hope in terms of saving the second marriage, and he responds by Bible-thumping and judging all of our happy, successful egalitarian marriages as unbiblical.

Neato!

Common denominator in upsetting, judging and Hurting those around him? Musing!

Musing, your beliefs and your arrogant refusal to re-examine them or at least not pound everyone else over the head with them makes you impossible to deal with online. I don't wonder for one second why your marriage is in deep trouble. You have no concept of respect for different people. You really need to learn what humility is and apply it to your life in order for anything to change, IMO. I sincerely hope you do so before causing your wife more pain and losing another marriage, for the sake of your children more than anything. Seriously, think about it. What you're doing isn't working. Try something new.

It seems that there is no pleasing the OP. His unsolicited and unwanted "advice" to others regarding the "biblicalness" of their marriages is really the height of hypocrisy. I know I didn't appreciate being told that my views on marriage (based on a fairly traditional marriage of over 30 years) were wrong. I definitely didn't appreciate being told that my married daughters were "wrong".

If he's been married to TWO "lazy" wives...then I don't think the problem is the wives, I think the problem is Muse. He picks the wrong women (who do not share his POV on marriage) and then fusses and whines when they don't do things HIS way. His deciding to paint ALL SAHMs with the same brush was also quite insulting to all of us who go above and beyond in raising our families and taking care of our homes and husbands.

I don't think there's any way to please him except to tell him that maybe he needs to find one of those SAHDs from the uber patriarchal families who have been born and bred to be the subservient little wife. Otherwise, he won't be happy. That seems to me to be a personal problem...HIS.

 

[musingsofacac]

Muse you stepped over the line my brother!

I think that ValleyGal is one of the only women of the very few on this thread that has tried to help you with the right spirit. There have been other women that made some comments but ValleyGal has actually stuck up for you. Some of these women have not been balanced in their ganging up on you but ValleyGal has been balanced and then you go and judge her marriage as unbiblical!

If you interpret the Bible and are convienced that the Traditional model is the right one for you then apply that to yourself and stop worrying about others. You have insulted and judged ValleyGal!

Muse, stop alienating the very few allies that you have and shut up about other people’s marriages. You are here because you want us to give you ideas and perspectives about your marriage and situation with your wife. You are not here to judge someone else’s marriage.

My posts have been trying to add in the Christian approach of building up a man that is in pain. What do you do but point out to all these women that their marriage is unbiblical. You have not been appointed as the head Pharisee of this thread so knock it off!

Also, you stepped over the line by inferring that ProudMom’s daughters have an unbiblical marriage. You need to apply your interpretations about the Biblical position on marriage to your marriage and leave your judgments about Proudmom’s daughters out of this thread and any another thread.

Muse, you have done some good things for your wife and children and your enthusiasm for he scriptures are admirable and I believe you are a good man but your insensitive insults to ValleyGal and Proudmom and others reeks of someone more interested in your own interpretation of the law rather than the spirit of Christ.

The spirit of the Christian family is more important than your interpretation or their interpretation of the biblical position on marriage roles.

I can understand having a few posts where you or anyone can get a little heated , I have done that from time to time, but these 300 posts of the same thing is getting little old for me, how about you?

I have to say I am truly and genuinely shocked at the negative tone toward the word “unbiblical” on this particular sub forum of general marriage.

From my background, it is not considered disrespectful, or degrading to say that you believe another’s Christian’s position (or a whole other Christian denomination’s position) was “unbiblical”.

In my background there is a big difference between saying that someone is acting “unchristian” vs “unbiblical”.

I have attended churches all over the country (when I have moved for work, or my dad did, or for Bible conferences) and never have I been in a group of Christians that regarded “unbiblical” as a derogatory phrase the way it is here.

Simply put when one believer says to another that he believes something to be “unbiblical”,(whether he is saying it of that person’s conduct or an entire group) it means he believes based on his interpretation of the Scriptures that God does not condone that behavior, or it somehow violates one of God’s commands or principles for Christian living.

Yes – “unbiblical” does imply there is one way to do something often times. Would I be right in assuming that the owners of this board have come to the position based on their own Biblical interpretation that certain activities are unbiblical?

Do not promote homosexuality
Do not promote or encourage adultery or premarital sex
Do not promote or proselytize religious beliefs or religions (including Satanism or Occultism) other than Christianity

I would guess the answer is yes, they believe to promote these things would be unbiblical.

On the polygamy front I was warned by moderators here that Christian forums does not consider polygamy to be Biblical (thus unbiblical) and should steer away from starting threads that say it is. I accepted that. I was not insulted by the fact that the board thought a position I believed about the Bible was “unbiblical”.

In fact it has been standard when I have taught Sunday School in churches throughout the years that Pastors would come up to me and tell me hot button issues that the church thought were “unbiblical”. I have had many a discussion with Christian friends (of various denominations) where we were able to share with one another that we thought our denominations positions on various topics were “unbiblical”.

I have no doubt that there are devout Christians on this board like ValleyGal , ProudMomxmany and others who believe their positions on marriage as well as host of other positions are indeed Biblically based on their own interpretation and understanding of the Scriptures, and I can respect that.

That being said, I believe I have detected that this board is only tolerant of privately held beliefs. Basically you say “I just believe this is right or wrong (whatever the subject) for my family, or this is Biblical or unbiblical for my family or marriage” then everything is kosher.

But if you have a conviction about something (based on your own interpretation and understanding of the Bible) that something is wrong or right for everyone – that type of thought won’t be tolerated.


But only on certain subjects, because I would bet there are certain commonly held Christian beliefs that we would be able to hold as apply to everyone.

If I were to say I have conviction based on my own interpretation and understanding of the Bible that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, died for the sins of mankind and whoever believes in will be saved, that Jesus is the only way to God, and the only way to heaven, and I believe any position to the contrary is”unbiblical” I would guess I would not get smacked for that.

Or if I were to say I have a conviction based on my interpretation of the Bible that homosexuality is wrong, not only for my family, but for all families would I be wrong in saying that? I would guess I would not get smacked for saying that on this board.

Or If I were to say I have a conviction that pre-marital sex is unbiblical I probably wouldn’t get smacked for that.

But apparently the traditional ONLY position, the conviction that millions of conservative Christians have around the world, that not only is traditional marriage right for their marriage, but is God’s design for all marriages – will not be tolerated on this board, and is actually considered “rude”.

I have heard some things here and recognized some things in my life that need work. I have never said I was the perfect husband in any way shape or form. But what I am getting from you and others is – if I open my marriage and am asking questions about what people think, if they respond on how their marriage works, I am forbidden from saying I disagree from a Biblical perspective of the example they are giving me from their marriage.

As far as the question from another poster about my previous divorce. Yet I believe it was Biblical, she had an affair.
Another poster asked if I believed Ephesians 5:25-28 applies to both traditional and egalitarian marriages equally – I would say absolutely yes!!! It’s what keeps me in my marriage, it’s what keeps me serving and loving my wife.

And finally – just because I believe certain things to Biblical or unbiblical (as most the Christians I have ever met in my life believe things can be Biblical or unbiblical) – does not mean everything in my life in “Biblical”. We all fall short of the glory of God, we all sin, even as believers.

But just because I fall short of what I think God wants me to be as a Christian, a husband and father does not mean I don’t think he has standards to which I need to strive to attain.

My effort to follow God's commands regarding marriage or other topics in no way saves me, only Christ’s shed blood does. But that does not mean because I am not saved by works, that God does not want me to do good works, and to strive model my life after what I believe is God’s purpose and design for it.

I am done on this thread. The 300 posts have come to an end.

 

[mkgal1]

I have to say I am truly and genuinely shocked at the negative tone toward the word “unbiblical” on this particular sub forum of general marriage.

http://danbouchelle.blogspot.com/2012/05/why-word-biblical-is-problematic.html

 

[ProudMomxmany]

The problem we have with you Muse is that you are holding out that you are the ONLY correct person here. You have admitted to problems in your marriage and the rest of us are attempting to show you where you may be wrong.

I really resent the statements made about me and my daughters, especially as I don't believe you have ANY room to talk regarding marriage. We've ALL tried to tell you that what you're doing ain't working so maybe you need to change YOUR mindset if you want your marriage to work. You refuse. That makes you stiff-necked and refusing to listen to the counsel of a multitude of people who have found success in their marriages, many of us married happily for many, many years. We may have something to say about how to have a successful marriage that you refuse to listen to.

So...that said...go on with your own ideas. You will stay miserable and frustrated until YOU change YOUR thinking. I will happily continue in my marriage that has lasted over twice as long as your longest marriage. My daughters will continue in their marriages and careers and know that their marriages will also last a lifetime. Continue being an egotistical chauvinist and see how far that continues to get you. In the meantime, you may want to think about the advice that's been given here, and when you're in divorce court for the second time, you'll remember those of us who tried to counsel you and point out that you were not correctly dividing the Word.