Moral obligation to not give to secular charities?

OKtheology

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This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.

Any thoughts?

 
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Maria Billingsley

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This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.

Any thoughts?

Welcome to CF. Jesus Christ of Nazareth never said to give only to those who follow Him. Through our works we show our faith to others who still need to be harvested.
Blessings.
 
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Strong in Him

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This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.
Welcome to CF. :wave:

Jesus said that if we love only those who love us, or give to those who give to us, what good is that? We are to love everyone, even our enemies, care for the poor and treat others as we would wish to be treated.
Helping someone in need only with the purpose of converting them to Christianity is not good. It implies that our love is conditional
 
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zippy2006

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Any thoughts?
Well we should first note that Scripture instructs us to give alms over and over again, so if it is a matter of what the Bible says then of course we should help the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan.

Second, helping the poor is not secular work. The reason charities in the West now help the poor, including secular charities, is because of their Christian culture and values.

If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.
I would say that evangelization is driven by the movement of the Spirit in the world. God's love cares for body and soul, not just the soul. If God cares for body and soul, then why would God's workers neglect the body? Living faith provides for the body (cf. James 2:14-17). One can favor the missions, but they should not neglect their duty to care for those who are poor and needy in a material sense.
 
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HarleyER

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This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.

Any thoughts?

Reformers who believe in predestination do not (normally) divorce themselves from missions. Some of the greatest missionary groups were started by Reformers. It is not only a command but a duty and priviledge for us to go out and seek the lost. We just don't know who they are.

That being said, there are many, many government organizations and secular ones who provide all sorts of services these days, food, shelter, etc. What is lacking, as you stated, is supporting true missions. We've been shaping our giving towards 1) training new pastors/missionaries, 2) helping families of former pastors who are now retired and living on or below poverty (Mission: Diginty), 3) supporting selective missionaries who we know are true to the Word, and 4) our local church. Usually, I find, your local church does enough for the community.

BTW-At one of our former churches they took up a collection for wells to be dug in Nigeria to provide fresh water. The church there dug eight well on church property with the funds, and then put a sign in front of the wells "Come to the Living Waters". It was not only an excellent testimony that the villagers would see every day as well as providing water to the village. Very cleaver.
 
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Christfollower7

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Welcome to CF. :wave:

Jesus said that if we love only those who love us, or give to those who give to us, what good is that?

Okay...that verse was taken out of context from Luke 6:32. And the context of the passage was about loving all men...even your enemies. It is a stretch from the passage to conclude that Jesus was talking about giving money to the poor outright (walking around the street giving free monetary handouts). In fact, in the passage, he talked about "lending" to them. Now, lending could in fact be money, a tunic, a loaf of bread, some sandals, etc. And when you lend Jesus said, don't expect or asking for the item back or contribution. Still a valuable lesson in giving.

The poor we will have with us always (Matthew 26:11). Most people that followed Jesus were looking for the signs, miracles, handouts, but that was NOT His message and purpose for coming to the earth. What good is it, if someone has their physical needs met, but still are on the path to hell? Its the spiritual handout what people need the most...an encounter with God! BUT, often times you cannot just stand by faith expecting to reach the lost/unsaved. You have to show by your works and meet the lost in the physical to perhaps win some over. And that was what Jesus was trying to do with the people. Not to mention that Jesus had compassion and was the ultimate servant of all, so He showed by action. Ultimately going to the cross, for His purpose for coming to earth.

Now, let me recall Jesus' words in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away." Again, we must remember the heart/context of Jesus when He was talking about this to His disciples. He is talking about being a good witness to all that you come across.

satan gets right in there and thumps many Christians with this passage as a weight and leverage that a Christian MUST ALWAYS give to everyone who asks them for money. If that was the case, many of us Christians would be broke! Have you ever had a friend, family member, etc. ask you for a certain sum of money and you barely had enough to get by on...whereas you could not afford to give to them? Now, if you follow the letter of Jesus' words, you have to give up your needs (or your family needs) so that you satisfy Jesus' words. That is not the heart of Christ! Jesus never told us to get rid of common sense and be stupid!

Remember, we have other passages that tells us the heart of God. Do not throw your pearls before swine...said just two chapters later on the same sermon Jesus was giving on the mount (Matthew 7:6). As a family man, I am called to provide for the needs of my family first and foremost. If I do not, I have denied the faith and worst then an unbeliever (1 Timothy 5:8). So, money and ministering to your family's needs first! If the Lord provides excess (which most of us in Western Civilization has), then by all means, give to the poor. The poor rarely asks for much. Where I am from, it is very typical for people to walk into fast food restaurants to ask for food. I have no problem giving them the meal they ask for. On the streets, most beggars stand of the freeway off ramps, asking for a dollar...not a big deal to give out. I would be out maybe $40 per year on this.

In regards to donating to charities (Red Cross, Goodwill, Salvation Army, Habitats for Humanity, Save the Dolphins, etc.), I personally have a conviction about that, because they do not promote the Gospel in any way, shape, or form! The money helps out charity for the sake of charity, but it doesn't furtherance the Gospel, which is the most important thing. I am also leery of World Vision, because I read somewhere that 70% of their received support goes for administrative costs. It might come with a "Christian" tag on it, but I believe a lot of charities fatten themselves up with hefty paychecks and various luxuries.

One of my favorite topics is talking about giving, because it is the absolute hardest thing for Christians to do, but the only area where God promises a ROI (Malachi 3). Of course, any debaters on that passage, will have to be in a different thread. I have seen firsthand, year-after-year, where the Lord always come through when I give. You cannot out give God! And He is debtor to no one!

Here are some statistics for you:
  • 5% of churchgoers tithe (Church Development)
  • Out of the 247 million U.S. citizens identifying as Christians, 1.5 million people tithe
  • 77% of tithers give more than 10% (Health Research Funding).
  • If every Christian tithed 10%, faith organizations would have an extra $139 billion each year (Health Research Funding).
  • The average giving amount per churchgoer is $17 per week (Health Research Funding)...That’s $73.67 per month or $884 per year, per giver.

If you give sparingly (cheaply), then you will reap sparingly (2 Corinthians 9:6)!

I like to point out that in the Old Testament, tithe is the Hebrew word for "tenth."

Looking at the Malachi 3 passage, you will notice two words that God uses about His righteous anger towards His people...they robbed Him in "tithes" and "offerings." The tithe is the 10% portion that should come out of your first fruits of whatever you make...your increase. And the tithe was to go to the storehouses, where you get fed. With the church, this would be to the church. If you watch online only, then you should send in the money to the church in which you get fed through the pastor's teaching.

If you get a $1,000 paycheck a week, then 10% of that would be $100. If you get a disability check for $600 a week, then the tithe would be $60. If you get $900 in social security each week, the tithe would be $90. If you get a welfare check of $500 each month, then the tithe would be $50. If a child gets a $5 per week allowance, then the tithe would be 50 cents, on their own choosing (not forced).

In regards to tax refunds, insurance settlements, inheritances, won money, found money, to each one his own how they want to give faithfully. And different people have different convictions on whether they tithe on gross (pre-tax) or net (after tax).

The offering portion God talked about in Malachi 3 has to do with the above and beyond the tithe (10%). This would be to those with whom you have an emotional connections with (Missionaries, Samaritan's Purse, Gospel for Asia, Far Reaching Ministries, Compassion International, the homeless on the street, the beggars, a fellow congregant that needs new tires for their car, but can't afford it, etc.).

I have done church accounting for a long time, and I get to see how everyone gives. Disclaimer: I could careless what people give, because it is between them and God. But let me tell you, all the statistics out there are 100% accurate when it comes to giving! People are stubborn when it comes to giving. And every single person that I knew that gave sparingly, reap sparingly, just as 2 Corinthians 9:6 says. And those who gave a lot and appropriately, I would hear about how God would bless them with random large amounts of money (pay raises, promotions, better clients, you name it). And almost every person who gave abundantly, were living in a house they own.

One person gave a $600 tithe...which later bounced. When I lovingly brought this to his attention, and explained that the church received a fee on that, he never replaced the tithe or the fee. Months later, he was let go from his job and blamed God for it! He literally was angry at God for allowing him to lose his job! He eventually faded from the church, never to be heard from again.

If you give God's way, you can never go wrong!
 
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Strong in Him

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Okay...that verse was taken out of context from Luke 6:32.
I was thinking of Matthew 5 actually - but anyway.
And the context of the passage was about loving all men...even your enemies. It is a stretch from the passage to conclude that Jesus was talking about giving money to the poor outright (walking around the street giving free monetary handouts).
I never said it was.
The OP is about whether or not we should give to secular charities.
If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation?
My comment was that Jesus told us to love everyone - not only love those who love you. Elsewhere he said to give without expecting a reward.
To me, that means give to "secular" charities as well as Christian ones - not be indiscriminate with your money and give handouts to all.
The poor we will have with us always (Matthew 26:11). Most people that followed Jesus were looking for the signs, miracles, handouts, but that was NOT His message and purpose for coming to the earth. What good is it, if someone has their physical needs met, but still are on the path to hell?
And James asked what good is it if we see someone hungry and just say "I wish you well" but do nothing to meet their needs?
Some people can't respond to God because their physical needs/hunger/pain/injustice gets in the way. When you show someone that you care about them/their circumstances, then you may earn the right to talk to them about their souls.

You have to show by your works and meet the lost in the physical to perhaps win some over.
So your motive for helping people would be evangelism, rather than love?
Now, let me recall Jesus' words in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away." Again, we must remember the heart/context of Jesus when He was talking about this to His disciples. He is talking about being a good witness to all that you come across.

satan gets right in there and thumps many Christians with this passage as a weight and leverage that a Christian MUST ALWAYS give to everyone who asks them for money.
But the OP was only about whether we should give to secular charities.

The poor rarely asks for much. Where I am from, it is very typical for people to walk into fast food restaurants to ask for food. I have no problem giving them the meal they ask for. On the streets, most beggars stand of the freeway off ramps, asking for a dollar...not a big deal to give out. I would be out maybe $40 per year on this.
The OP was asking whether we should give to secular charities/non Christians at all.
In regards to donating to charities (Red Cross, Goodwill, Salvation Army, Habitats for Humanity, Save the Dolphins, etc.), I personally have a conviction about that, because they do not promote the Gospel in any way, shape, or form!
So you would only give to those who support the Gospel?
The Salvation Army are most certainly Christian - and God told us to care for his earth and feed the poor. So even if these charities themselves never mention the name of God, they are doing as he asked.
Here are some statistics for you:
  • 5% of churchgoers tithe (Church Development)
  • Out of the 247 million U.S. citizens identifying as Christians, 1.5 million people tithe
  • 77% of tithers give more than 10% (Health Research Funding).
  • If every Christian tithed 10%, faith organizations would have an extra $139 billion each year (Health Research Funding).
  • The average giving amount per churchgoer is $17 per week (Health Research Funding)...That’s $73.67 per month or $884 per year, per giver.
Tithing 10% of your income is a separate topic - and it's not Scriptural anyway.
 
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Christfollower7

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To me, that means give to "secular" charities as well as Christian ones - not be indiscriminate with your money and give handouts to all.

Okay...you are obviously offended at my post! Look, I absolutely disagree with your assessment of giving to secular charities. Lines have to be drawn some where and who is going to be the determiner factor of where those lines are drawn to give out to charities...your emotions!?

That is the problem with giving, never trust your emotions, because you become the determiner of where God's money goes and not what the Lord wants. How about secular charities for the Mormons, satanist, abortion clinics, LGBTQ, save the dolphins, save the planet, PETA, and the list goes on and on. Afterall, you are talking about secular charities here. Now, you might say, obviously non-immoral charities. Again, do you have all the facts of which charities are legit and which ones are not. How much research do you actually do in your giving? Or is it on a feeling.

I hate to break this to you, but the Salvation Army is no longer a Christian organization, much like the YMCA, A.A., Yale College, Harvard, Princeton, which all were found on Judeo-Christian values.

Here is a good article on the Salvation Army:

So your motive for helping people would be evangelism, rather than love?

The Gospel is love! It is the good news that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins! Love through the Gospel triumphs over giving and helping the poor. What is man's greatest need...to be needed and cared for or to have salvation? What does it profit a person if he has his basic survival needs met, but is hell-bound? I am guessing by the way you right, you believe in many roads to heaven and that hell is a figment of man's imagination or perhaps temporary. Curious, is the rainbow in your avatar representative of the acceptance of the LGBTQ lifestyle?

Tithing 10% of your income is a separate topic - and it's not Scriptural anyway.

This shows your ignorance (not stupididy mind you) of the Scriptures. This shows you do not know your Bible very well...just from what you hear others expound upon or what your feelings go by. You MUST follow what 2 Timothy 2:15 says, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

You need to be a faithful Berean (as seen in Acts 17:11) and study the Scriptures to find the true answers, and not every wind of doctrine that gets thrown out at you. Don't make God into your image and don't make His Word what you feel it should be...believe in the Word themselves, because it is living and powerful. God's Word stands on its own!
 
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GodBeMercifulToMeASinner

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Never was about giving money to organizations, secular or religious. What better way to give than right to the person who needs it. No middleman. Never really cared what they believe in other than I would want for them to be saved in the end, it wouldn’t determine whether I would give to them or not if they’re not a Christian.

And there’s also other things to give besides fiat money. Could be time, labor, material goods, whatever you have to offer..to whoever, regardless of what they believe.



Curious, is the rainbow in your avatar representative of the acceptance of the LGBTQ lifestyle?

Actually, the rainbow is a sign of God’s covenant with man to never wipe out the earth again by flood..Genesis 9:13-15.
 
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Never was about giving money to organizations, secular or religious. What better way to give than right to the person who needs it. No middleman. Never really cared what they believe in other than I would want for them to be saved in the end, it wouldn’t determine whether I would give to them or not if they’re not a Christian.

And there’s also other things to give besides fiat money. Could be time, labor, material goods, whatever you have to offer..to whoever, regardless of what they believe.





Actually, the rainbow is a sign of God’s covenant with man to never wipe out the earth again by flood..Genesis 9:13-15.
That's true but the lbgq? Have picked it up and made it's theirs
 
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stevevw

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This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.

Any thoughts?
So what about if we forget to help the poor and disadvantaged and they end up dead. How do you save a person who is dead. Jesus fed the crowd even though they were not saved. He knew that theor basic needs had to be catered for as well so they were more ready for the message instead of hearing their grummbling stomachs lol.

I think its unreal to say that heping people like the Good Samaritan who wasn't just concerned for the soul but the welfare even giving more than we have to as this is preaching in itself and when added to Gods word it carries mucvh more power.

Many people need support as part of being saved as this sometimes gets them to a place of realization. A junky can only think of the next fix and cannot even comprehend what is being said let along hear the Gospel.

So sometimes a helping hand is the gateway to God and the helping hand is the preaching as people can see Christ in those actions.
 
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Christfollower7

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Actually, the rainbow is a sign of God’s covenant with man to never wipe out the earth again by flood..Genesis 9:13-15.

Yes! Very true! But the LGBTQ through satan's leading, has hi-jacked and perverted the rainbow! Now these days, when you see the rainbow used, 9 out of 10 times, it is to give credit and glory to the LGBTQ community. And don't think for one second that the Christian church is immune! Half the Episcopalian church has embraced homosexuality. We have pastors and priests that are practicing homosexuals and "Christian" churches that embrace homosexuality as being normal and accepted by God!

So when I see the rainbow in a avatar, I wonder if the person is legit or not, because you can never tell these days.

I am always leery of someone who says that the concept of giving is not in the Bible...that is someone who has perverted the way and follows after the will of satan. That is someone who does not read the Bible, or go to church...at least a good Bible teaching church. Someone that throws out that tithing is not in the Bible, shows to me someone who often questions God and His Word!

There are 450+ verses in the Bible about faith
There are 560 verses in the Bible about prayer
There are 2,100+ verses on giving

Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

Notice the last words of Jesus there, "without leaving the others undone." What is Jesus talking about leaving undone? Tithing!

Plain and simple...Jesus rest His case! Render to Caesar the tax due him and the things unto God as appropriately.
 
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bèlla

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My primary focus for giving is impact and who they're serving. I have a long standing appreciation for opera and want to fund outreach and productions down the road. I want to expose children to live entertainment that's wholesome and age appropriate they may not have otherwise. I have a similar regard for etiquette and have charitable work in mind to expand its reach.

Neither are centered on the church but the topics are dear to my heart and the recipients would be blessed. I don't believe all my activities must involve the church nor am I required to give them all my resources. As long as God agrees with my stewardship and blesses it that's all that matters. I don't need man's approval.

~bella
 
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timewerx

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If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation?

Ironically, if you really believe the Bible (or read all of it), your eternal salvation might actually depend on how you treat the poor especially in meeting their physical needs if you possess the resources to do so.

Many Christians get expensive mortgages and loans with large comfortable homes and luxurious vehicles so they'll have no money left to help the poor. "The perfect excuse". Will God take that for an excuse? You'll have to ask God yourself or read the Bible more.

I guess the bottom line is, the million dollar question everyone is anxious to hear, do you really need to help the poor?

According to the Bible, the answer is "try your best". But if you can't do it, then don't do it.

However, if other people, are making the effort to help the poor, you are to encourage them, pray for them, help them in ways you can.

Never discourage others who are trying to help the poor if you yourself finds it impossible to do.

Ofc, don't take my word for it. Study the Bible more and see if you'll find the same answer.
 
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Strong in Him

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Okay...you are obviously offended at my post!
No, I'm not offended.

Look, I absolutely disagree with your assessment of giving to secular charities.
Fine; you're allowed to.
I was just answering the OP and explaining why I disagree.

Lines have to be drawn some where and who is going to be the determiner factor of where those lines are drawn to give out to charities...your emotions!?
Which charities a person supports is a private matter. If they are a Christian, it's between them and God; if not, it's up to them.
That is the problem with giving, never trust your emotions, because you become the determiner of where God's money goes and not what the Lord wants.
I don't know why you keep going on about emotions. They are not the main factor in deciding how I give.
How about secular charities for the Mormons, satanist, abortion clinics, LGBTQ, save the dolphins, save the planet, PETA, and the list goes on and on. Afterall, you are talking about secular charities here.
The OP suggested it might not be a good idea to give to secular charities. They asked why someone would give to a "worldly cause, like combating poverty" when they could be saving a heap of souls from eternal damnation.
My position is that some of those causes that he/she denounced as secular are taught in the Bible and firmly in line with Scriptural principals. If one "truly believes in the Bible" (OPs words) they will know that God stands up and fights for the poor. He is on the side of the weak and disadvantaged and is against injustice.
So, for me, even if a charity is secular, with no obvious Christian input, it may still be worth supporting.
That does not mean I am totally indiscriminate in deciding whether or not to do so.

Curious, is the rainbow in your avatar representative of the acceptance of the LGBTQ lifestyle?
No.
This shows your ignorance (not stupididy mind you) of the Scriptures. This shows you do not know your Bible very well.
No.
In the OT, tithing was always food. The Israelites were told to set aside 1/10 of their crops and take it to a certain place to be dedicated to God and blessed by the priest. Do you know what happened then? They sat down and ATE their tithe, Deuteronomy 14:23.
If the place they were to take their tithe was too far away, or the Lord had blessed them so much that 1/10 was too heavy for them to carry, then they were to sell it locally, take the money to the place they were going, use it to buy more food and eat that, Deuteronomy 14:24-25.
The tithe was to be offered each year. Every 3 years they were to set aside a 1/10 of that year's produce and give it to the Levite and foreigners in the land.

Somehow, all of this has been interpreted as "take 1/10 of your salary and give it to the church, each month."
If Christians say "we must tithe, the Bible teaches it", then they need to follow the tithing instructions laid down in the OT, start growing their own food and each year the church should have a meal of all the products that have been given. Every 3 years the church should then invite the homeless and refugees in to share it with them.
THAT is how to practice tithing as taught in the Bible.
Tithing is not taught in the NT - the believers shared everything.
You need to be a faithful Berean (as seen in Acts 17:11) and study the Scriptures to find the true answers, and not every wind of doctrine that gets thrown out at you.
So take your own advice and read what the OT says about tithing, before accusing me of wanting to follow my emotions and every "wind of doctrine".
 
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JosephZ

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I hate to break this to you, but the Salvation Army is no longer a Christian organization...

THE DOCTRINES OF THE SALVATION ARMY

We believe
that the Church, the Body of Christ on earth, often referred to in the New Testament as ‘the saints’ (Ephesians 1:23), comprises all who are born not of natural descent, nor of human decision, or a husband’s will, but born of God (John 1:13).

The Church universal includes all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, confessing him as Saviour and Lord, and witnessing to that sacred commitment through loving mutual submission (Matthew 18:15-20; John 13:34- 35; Ephesians 5:21) and sacrificial service (Mark 8:34; Matthew 20:25-28; John 13:1-17)

We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.

We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship.

We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead – the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory.

We believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the Divine and human natures are united, so that He is truly and properly God and truly and properly man.

We believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocency, but by their disobedience they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has by His suffering and death made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will may be saved.

We believe that repentance towards God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and regeneration by the Holy Spirit, are necessary to salvation.

We believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believeth hath the witness in himself.

We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ.

We believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.
 
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Christfollower7

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Tithing is not taught in the NT - the believers shared everything.

Yes, your assessment about the O.T. tithing practice is correct, in regards to a greater portion to tithe. The figure is actually 20% + 3% every three years! Praise God He doesn't have us accountable under those figures. Under the New Covenant, we are not under the law, but grace. Bow, grace doesn't mean we are excused from being obedient to God's Word and commandments. We don't sin (omission or commission) so that sin abounds...may it never be!

However, you must understand in the O.T. tithing was NOT always about produce in regards to food. You can't always read the Scriptures literally and assume that the exact words apply to the exact example given. For example, when Jesus said, "You cannot love God and mammon at the same time." Mammon is referred to money or wealth. When Jesus mentioned this passage in the Sermon on the Mount, is money the only thing that is excluded from His point He is making? Of course not! It could also mean relationships, career, material possessions, etc. So, when God outlines tithing in the O.T. about giving from your "first fruits" we CANNOT say that it is only those who are farmers. That would be ridiculous, because what about those with live stock, those who are bankers, salesmen, lawyers, doctors, and all other professions that receive in monetary compensation!? The concept is, whatever your increase is, set aside a portion unto the Lord, where you get spiritually fed (the store houses).

In regards to tithing, read the Book of Acts and how no one was lacking and each brought faithfully and cheerfully.

Sadly, it is satan who weakens the church with the school of thought that has been implanted into so many Christians hearts that they do not have to give to the church, but secular charities. Don't give unto God (in the store houses), but give to help the dolphins, the ocean, the school systems, etc. satan's message to the church on giving "whatever you do, don't give to the church."

satan appease to the emotions when it comes to giving, because if he can grab your feelings, he wins! And then many view Scripture not from a Biblical solid truth perspective, but from a feelings based point of view. And then man interprets the Bible based upon feelings. We live in a sick perverted world, where good is now bad and bad is now good. Everyone is doing what is right in his or her own eyes.

The message you propagate to whomever you come across, saying that tithing is not Biblical, is giving satan a voice. You are spreading and promoting satan's lie!

I notice you ignored my passage to you about where Jesus specifically speaks on tithing in the New Testament:

Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

Notice the last words of Jesus there, "without leaving the others undone." What is Jesus talking about leaving undone? Tithing!

Plain and simple...Jesus rest His case! Render to Caesar the tax due him and the things unto God as appropriately.

So, in plain English, Jesus is saying to the Scribes, Pharisees, His disciples, everyone...tithing is good and it should be done, as unto the Lord and appropriately to the store houses (Malachi 3) of where you are getting fed spiritually. That is proper and good exegesis of the Scriptures.
 
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RDKirk

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Yes, your assessment about the O.T. tithing practice is correct, in regards to a greater portion to tithe. The figure is actually 20% + 3% every three years! Praise God He doesn't have us accountable under those figures. Under the New Covenant, we are not under the law, but grace. Bow, grace doesn't mean we are excused from being obedient to God's Word and commandments. We don't sin (omission or commission) so that sin abounds...may it never be!

However, you must understand in the O.T. tithing was NOT always about produce in regards to food. You can't always read the Scriptures literally and assume that the exact words apply to the exact example given. For example, when Jesus said, "You cannot love God and mammon at the same time." Mammon is referred to money or wealth. When Jesus mentioned this passage in the Sermon on the Mount, is money the only thing that is excluded from His point He is making? Of course not! It could also mean relationships, career, material possessions, etc. So, when God outlines tithing in the O.T. about giving from your "first fruits" we CANNOT say that it is only those who are farmers. That would be ridiculous, because what about those with live stock, those who are bankers, salesmen, lawyers, doctors, and all other professions that receive in monetary compensation!? The concept is, whatever your increase is, set aside a portion unto the Lord, where you get spiritually fed (the store houses).

In regards to tithing, read the Book of Acts and how no one was lacking and each brought faithfully and cheerfully.

Sadly, it is satan who weakens the church with the school of thought that has been implanted into so many Christians hearts that they do not have to give to the church, but secular charities. Don't give unto God (in the store houses), but give to help the dolphins, the ocean, the school systems, etc. satan's message to the church on giving "whatever you do, don't give to the church."

satan appease to the emotions when it comes to giving, because if he can grab your feelings, he wins! And then many view Scripture not from a Biblical solid truth perspective, but from a feelings based point of view. And then man interprets the Bible based upon feelings. We live in a sick perverted world, where good is now bad and bad is now good. Everyone is doing what is right in his or her own eyes.

The message you propagate to whomever you come across, saying that tithing is not Biblical, is giving satan a voice. You are spreading and promoting satan's lie!

I notice you ignored my passage to you about where Jesus specifically speaks on tithing in the New Testament:

Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

Notice the last words of Jesus there, "without leaving the others undone." What is Jesus talking about leaving undone? Tithing!

Plain and simple...Jesus rest His case! Render to Caesar the tax due him and the things unto God as appropriately.

So, in plain English, Jesus is saying to the Scribes, Pharisees, His disciples, everyone...tithing is good and it should be done, as unto the Lord and appropriately to the store houses (Malachi 3) of where you are getting fed spiritually. That is proper and good exegesis of the Scriptures.
We actually do have to get literal about the word "tithing" as Christians. Remember that while the apostles were teaching and writing, there was actual tithing still going on in Jerusalem. If they had meant tithing, they would have said tithing because the Jews were still tithing. If they had said, "tithe" or in any way implied that they were still upholding the Mosaic tithing laws, that would have meant they were teaching Christians to go to Jerusalem and tithe according to the law.

What they were exhorting Christians to do in fully caring for one another was a different thing from tithing, both legally and spiritually.
 
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