Moral obligation to not give to secular charities?

[Christfollower7]

Is tithing to the church wrong?

Should Christians tithe to the church?

 

[Strong in Him]

Is tithing to the church wrong?

Should Christians tithe to the church?

It's not wrong, but it's not compulsory.

 

[RDKirk]

This is an issue I have been grappling with recently. The scripture provides support for both traditional, secular charities (helping the poor), and missionary work, but the latter just seems so much more effective from a rational point of view. While giving a man a fish can feed him for a day, and teaching a man to fish can feed him for a life-time, teaching man about Christ can literally save him for all of eternity. If anyone truly believes in the bible, why would they give anything to worldly causes like combating poverty when they could potentially help save souls from eternal damnation? Even if one had an option between permanently ending all war, poverty, and disease, and having the chance to save literally one person through missionary work, it would be far for rational to choose the latter.

I suppose one who supported predestination could conclude differently, but even in this case, giving to missionary work would simply be God's predestined way of reaching the elect, and you would be one of god's most effective tools in doing so. Furthermore, it is reiterated again and again throughout scripture that saving people is immensely pleasurable to god, and perhaps one of the most pleasurable things we can do in God's eyes is submitting to Christ

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance: Luke 15:7

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age: Matthew 28:19-20

The final counter argument I can think of is that by helping people physically we make it more likely that people convert to Christianity. This is a good argument, but it would only apply to explicitly christian charities.

Any thoughts?

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In the Bible, Jesus says to his disciples, "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Jesus gave this commandment after the Last Supper and after Judas Iscariot had left. The commandment appears in the Bible in John 13:34-35.

A pastor has pointed out that the global Body of Christ has enough resources in our hands right this moment to ensure that no member of the Body of Christ in the world need worry about food, shelter, or clothing. Collectively, we have all the resources we need, right among us, right now.

Imagine if we were doing this right and made that happen: No professed Christian was hungry, poor, or naked. Imagine if every Christian pastor, every priest around the world could boldly state, "No member of this congregation needs to worry about where they will live, what they will eat, or if they'll have clothes to wear."

And that was visible to the world.

What would happen with missionary outreach then?

 

[Strong in Him]

However, you must understand in the O.T. tithing was NOT always about produce in regards to food.

It was in the OT.
The Hebrew slaves, who had been rescued by God from Egypt, were led to Mount Sinai and the Lord made a covenant with them. He gave them instructions on how they were to live as his people - that included giving 1/10 of their crops, home grown produce, to God. They grew crops and kept animals for food, wool and so on.

You can't always read the Scriptures literally and assume that the exact words apply to the exact example given.

And you can't read the OT law - which wasn't given to us - and assume that it applies to us now.
Are you circumcised? Do you avoid pork? Only wear clothes made of one fabric etc?

For example, when Jesus said, "You cannot love God and mammon at the same time." Mammon is referred to money or wealth. When Jesus mentioned this passage in the Sermon on the Mount, is money the only thing that is excluded from His point He is making?

In Matthew's Gospel he has been taking about giving to the needy.
In both Matthew, and Luke, Jesus is saying that we cannot serve two masters; either the Lord is god or money is a god. So yes, I would take it that when our Lord says "money" he means "money".

Of course not! It could also mean relationships, career, material possessions, etc.

If he were taking about the 2nd commandment, "you shall have no other gods before me", then yes; certainly.
People can put relationships, careers, material possessions before God and spend the time and money on them that is due to him. They/we can worship (i.e. give worth to) these things when it is God who is worthy of our worship.

When Jesus said "you cannot serve God and money", that is what the disciples heard. There is nothing to suggest that they understood that to mean "you cannot serve God and career, material possessions etc" - both of which are dependent on, or require, money, in any case.

So, when God outlines tithing in the O.T. about giving from your "first fruits" we CANNOT say that it is only those who are farmers.

We can, because that is who those Scriptures were addressed to - those who grew food for a living and to support themselves.
"Take the first 10% of everything that your land produces" said God, "dedicate it to me, then sit sown and eat it in celebration of what I have given you, with thanksgiving and not forgetting the Levites and the poor."
That is how they were to celebrate the tithe in the OT.
And some Christians today talk about "tithing Scripturally", by which they mean "give 1/10 of what you earn - even if you're only on benefits, to the church. We had a lady who came to us from another church; she had left it because people actually sat down with her, wanted to go through her finances to find out what she earned (nothing)/how much she had and where she could afford to give more to the church. That is not tithing Biblically - that is almost financial abuse.

It's not wrong today to decide to give 1/10 of your income to God. Paul says that each of us should give what we have decided in our hearts to give - not reluctantly, or under compulsion, 2 Corinthians 9:7. So if a Christian believes they should give 1/10; go for it.
But the NT teaches that a) everything we have comes from God. I don't know about you but I'm not going to say "Lord, you can have only 1/10 of my money, my gifts and my life - all of which you gave to me." And b) that the early church gave everything. Ananias and Sapphira were criticised, and then judged, not for not giving everything - Peter said that the money they got from the sale of land was theirs to do with as they pleased. But for keeping some of the money back but claiming they had given everything. That was the point; if they had said "No, this is only 75% of what we received", they would have been fine.

In regards to tithing, read the Book of Acts and how no one was lacking and each brought faithfully and cheerfully.

Yes, that wasn't tithing; but giving.

Sadly, it is satan who weakens the church with the school of thought that has been implanted into so many Christians hearts that they do not have to give to the church,

No one HAS to give, nor do they HAVE to give to the church.
Certainly, if you are in a large church, have many activities going on, care for the poor, are involved in mission etc and you feel it is right to give 10%, or however much you want to, to support these things; you can.
I give (some) money to support our church, but I am far more interested in supporting others, funding Christian, and sometimes other, initiatives, getting the Gospel out there or supporting those who do, than in maintaining a building/paying for redecoration/keeping the stained glass windows cleaned etc. That sort of thing isn't important to me. And our church is made up of an older congregation with limited resources - so qe have to add fundraising to the list.

It might not be Satan who is saying "don't give to this institution"; it might be God saying "that is not the best use of your money".

Don't give unto God (in the store houses), but give to help the dolphins, the ocean, the school systems, etc.

You can give to God by maintaining/caring for his world and giving to the people that he is concerned for.
There are Christians who work in, and for, "secular" charities.

satan's message to the church on giving "whatever you do, don't give to the church."

Satan's message is more likely to be "give to the church; having a nice building/the 'proper' hymn books is so much more important than preaching the Gospel."

satan appease to the emotions when it comes to giving, because if he can grab your feelings, he wins!

So if someone sees an appeal on tv about children who are drinking unclean water/dying in poverty/have become homeless due to war, earthquakes etc and feels compassion for them, they are appeasing Satan by their emotional response?
Nonsense. God has compassion on his world; why shouldn't we? Jesus wept over Jerusalem and when his friends were bereaved; why shouldn't we?

The message you propagate to whomever you come across, saying that tithing is not Biblical, is giving satan a voice. You are spreading and promoting satan's lie!

Again, nonsense.
I said that some people say, teach or insist that we tithe because it is Scriptural - yet they ignore all the teaching on tithing given in the OT.
To tithe Biblically you should take 10% of your crops and home grown produce to a holy place - latterly the Temple - once a year to be dedicated to God. Then sit down and EAT your tithe.
The priests did not keep the crops and sell them to buy temple furniture, new robes, give themselves a salary on any of the other things which we say are so important. The people ATE the tithe - 10% of the crops that God had given them that year. Not forgetting to include the Levites, who had no allotments, in their celebration meal.
That is tithing according to the OT. Tithing is not taught in the NT.

I notice you ignored my passage to you about where Jesus specifically speaks on tithing in the New Testament:

Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

No, Jesus is not speaking on tithing.
Jesus was talking to Pharisees who had rejected him and were still under, and trusting in, OT law. He was saying they were very keen to observe the smaller matters of the law - tithing 10% of even all their herbs - while completely ignoring the larger commands of mercy, justice and faith. If they were going to remain under the law, not accepting his teaching and believing that the law could save them, then they should pay attention to ALL of it, not just the bits that were easy to keep.

This is a long was from saying that Jesus taught his disciples that they had to carry on tithing and to make sure all that money went to the church.

So, in plain English, Jesus is saying to the Scribes, Pharisees, His disciples, everyone...tithing is good and it should be done, as unto the Lord and appropriately to the store houses (Malachi 3) of where you are getting fed spiritually. That is proper and good exegesis of the Scriptures.

Far from it.
The Scriptures were written in Greek, not in "plain English" - and Jesus spoke Aramaic.
Exegesis involves looking at the context of a verse/passage, understanding who the words/teachings were addressed to and what those who heard them would have understood by the words/teachings. Quite simply, Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees; those under the law, who had rejected him and his teaching that he had come to fulfil the law. He was NOT addressing the disciples, who had left everything to follow him.
Therefore, it is not correct to say "Jesus told the Pharisees this; it obviously applies to us too."