Moon was Created

[EnemyPartyII]

Dunno --- try answering it first, if you want me to respect any criticism of it.

what was the actual challenge? I'll have a crack (BTW where are all your nice apples I gave you?)

 

[AV1611VET]

what was the actual challenge?

The Return of My Apple Challenge

• I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

• What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

I'll have a crack

Thank you.

(BTW where are all your nice apples I gave you?)

Sorry --- there --- how's that?

(BTW where is the King James Bible I gave you?)

 

[EnemyPartyII]

• I create an apple ex nihilo into the palm of your hand.

• What evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

Actual observational evidence of the event occuring would be good, or subsequent evidence derived from its creation (e.g. the explosive outrushing of air from the space now occupied, distant observation e.g. no evidence of the apple for a year poer light year in any direction)

But failing actual observational evidence, the apple being created ex nihilo is fine as a working theory until some sort of contradictory evidence is produced. If there is ANY contradictory evidence to the apple having been produced ex nihilo, then thats certainly strong evidence AGAINST it having happened.

It is possible to have evidence AGAINST something happening, without there being evidence FOR something happening.

I still don't really see the point of the cghalleng, AV... IF you produce an apple, ex nihilo I think we can all accept and agree that evidence of such creation may be difficult to obtain. Thats fine, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. BUT! If there is evidence AGAINST the ex nihilo creation, the absence of evidence FOR its creation becomes rather a mott point.

For example, if I have a photo of the apple growing on a tree, that is strong evidence AGAINST your claim of ex nihilo creation, is it not?

(BTW where is the King James Bible I gave you?)

I'm still reading it. I'm finding it a bit hard wading through all the thous, the phonetic pronnunication of "fuccour" and the 4 legged birds... but thanks

 

[PeterMaclellan]

My Perfect Car Challenge

If I build the perfect car and give it to you; and you wreck it; is it my fault?

No, it isn't. Gee that was easy.

What's your point? Humans are neither perfect nor cars. Care to explain what you are attempting to accomplish with this "Challenge"?

 

[AV1611VET]

For example, if I have a photo of the apple growing on a tree, that is strong evidence AGAINST your claim of ex nihilo creation, is it not?

Um ... was there an answer in here somewhere? I asked what evidence you would use to convince your friend. Any explanation AGAINST me doing it would be wrong, would it not? If you told your friend I did this, and she didn't believe you, she would be wrong; simple as that. Therefore, I'm asking what evidence you would use to at least try and convince her I did this.

...the phonetic pronnunication of "fuccour" and the 4 legged birds... but thanks

That's cute, EP; but that's not in the KJV 1[sup]st[/sup] edition, so we'll have to excuse you on that one.

It is, however, in the 1560 Geneva Bible (that I got for Christmas); but that's not the one I gave you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Care to explain what you are attempting to accomplish with this "Challenge"?

Nope --- I sure don't. I have a whole thread on it though, if you're interested.

 

[Phred]

Nope --- I sure don't. I have a whole thread on it though, if you're interested.

Your "challenge" was voted disposed of by the readers of this forum. Please... shut up about it will you?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Your "challenge" was voted disposed of by the readers of this forum. Please... shut up about it will you?

 

[dad]

They knew all about shock and awe a thousand years ago,
that's why they built the cathedrals and abbeys the way they did,
they were designed to knock your socks off, and they succeeded.

And they were designed and built by men.

That's nice. Point?

Not the brightest thing to do, even if the story was true,
what did they expect to find after 4000 years sitting out in the open in all winds and weathers? a boat?

Yes, or remains. Why, does wood disappear in 4000 years?

They were normal men and Christians, what would you expect them to say? "It was just another day at the office",
had they been Muslims they would have praised Allah.

I would expect them to cower like normal Christians, and hide their faith under a bushel, so as not to get sued, or fired, or demoted, or frowned on.

This last part explains quite a bit, it tells us where you have been since you last posted here.

Great, so now you know. Wherever that place in your head may be.

So you still think spirits live in the moon, there is only one thing I can advise, change your doctor,
the treatment you have been receiving has not worked very well, unless your have stopped taking your medication again,
that's a bad move Dad, you know it's for your own good, so take it.

I stay away from doctors and drugs as much as possible. I thank God it has always been very very possible for me so far. But I think we can take from that, that you do not believe in a life after death. Fine.

 

[dad]

It seems everyone is glad you are back Dad,
they all want to laugh at you, how does that make you feel? because they are also laughing at the one you represent.

So try not to act like a crack pot, every time you dip into the realms of fantasy, they all laugh at you and your God.

Or,...what? You'll cry? Maybe you ought to concentrate on having sound reason, logic, bible savvy, and a pinch of scientific acumen. When you find it, tell us about it, don't whine.

 

[dad]

Dad's been laughed at many times before and will be again.

So has the bible. So has God. So have most believers. When I see some in the locks of an absurd myth, it doesn't hurt them to laugh. After the chuckles stop, then they may look at the evidence, and question, if they may have been duped after all? It is that suspicious glance at your wild fable teaching, that I seek to fan. That is the first step to getting free from it.

His ideas are eminently laughable. Men in the moon indeed. It might not match time running backward or no gravity before the flood but it is still pretty funny.

Why would the moon as a way station, or even some sort of base be all that funny? Did not Jesus get lifted up from the earth into heaven? Where did He go up there? He obviously is still alive and well, and soon coming back down for some unfinished business. So, if He first went to the moon, would that be so strange? Would it be so much better if someone claimed it was Orion? The root issues here, is that either we believe in real living beings in spiritual form at the moment somewhere other than earth, nearby, or we don't. I daresay that most folks that would oppose the possibility of spirits in the moon, would also oppose the reality of spirits in ythe earth! Right? Fess up.

Right you indirectly accuse God of being a deceiver everytime you bring up your "embedded age" claim.

Well, why would those that don'r even believe in Him to start with, suddenly get so concerned with defending His reputation?

I am not accusing God of anything and I doubt others here are. The bungling, vindictive, deceptive God of YEC only exists in the minds of extreme Biblical literatists. You are the one claiming God cursed his botched up creation and then destroyed nearly everything with a global flood because it was so messed up he was forced to repent of it. I never accused God of that.

No he is not. The bible tells us that stuff. Maybe you better start accusing God of being real, and doing what He said. Nothing wrong with that. He does not need you to pussyfoot around, teaching fables, to cover for His idiocy. Thank you very much.

You are the one claiming the God had someone write down a story of creation and the flood that is at total variance with the world's geology, archeology and biology.

Tough. God is right, you are wrong. Deal with it. Your buddies are also wrong.

I never accused God of actually doing that. It is Biblical literalists who claim that God turned Lot's poor wife into a pillar of salt, had bears eat a bunch of children for dissing a prophet and ordered the Isrealites to commit all those atrocities in His Name.

Your idea of atrocity is not God's idea. He does things in love, and unless you see that, you miss the point. Whooooosh.

I never accused God of that. We accuse you of having ideas that would bring God into disrepute if true but I at least don't believe your intrepretation is correct and I am pretty sure most of the people laughing at dad's goofy nonsense don't either.

Thanks for sharing what you believe, and what goes round your head.

It is not God who messed up. It is your conception of what God did that is messed up.

No where does the bible or Christians say God messed up. You are confused.

 

[dad]

Uh... no it doesn't. How exactly did it affect them?

In Irwin's case he changed his life, and started to preach, speak, and climb the mountain hr thought the ark was on.

All you've given is that they felt a spiritual feeling. That's nothing very special or surprising, given that they went somewhere that people had never been before or, in the missions, that only a few people had been.

It was an impact, and the results of that impact ran deep in the men, at least some of them, to the point of changed lives.

No evidence, no argument.

An effect denotes a cause. The impact on the men on the moon had to have a cause. To a lesser degree, we could say that historical evidences of man's belief that the full moon impacted men is also evidence.

Uhm... right, just let me get this straight. Here is a true to context quotation of what you are saying with some bits removed:

"I ... feel that ... spirits do reside inside [the moon]. That means we can toss out [a piece of] evidence ..."

Sorry, buddy, but your feeling doesn't mean squat!

What evidence is it you imagine someone tossed anywhere??

So do you have a more parsimonious explanation for why the outer layers of the moon are all melted and crystalised?

Well we can compare notes. Why do you think they are so?

Yay! PO same past, ah, it's good to hear from you dad. Yep, we assume that the past operates the same as the present mate! You assume that gravity worked the same 200 years ago, right?

Yes, I do, have you heard of a thing called history?? Look into it.

So it's your opinion against mine (seeing as you've got no evidence.) When two opinions clash, which one should we believe - the one trying to posit magical spirits, or the... well, sorry to blow my own trumpet... sane one?

So you admit all you have is opinion! Thanks for that. Be darn sure you do not claim it as science. For what it is worth, flight of fancy, unbased, unbiblical opinions may carry some weight. Like the dust on an old scale has some weight. Now, if you had the bible behind your lack of science, that would give it a lot of real weight.

Haha! "The bible talks of spirits under the earth, so why shouldn't there be spirits under the moon." Well, there's no logical connection there and sorry, but you need more than a "why not" to establish that spirits exist! More than the bible, too, for that matter.

Let's take this in baby steps for you. Do you believe there really are spirits under this earth as we speak???

Where's the evidence for this? Oh yes, "they felt a bit weird."

The impact on their lives.

Dad, your conclusion is wrong because you did not include an irrelevant picture.

I find that hard to do. I gravitate toward relevant ones.

 

[dad]

It took me a while to find an answer to this question. It seems that a process called gravitational focusing by the earth is expected to cause a higher cratering rate on the near side of the moon rather than the far side. The earth acts a gravitation lens which is predicted to focus impacts on the moon's near side leading to about 2 to 4 times as many impacts being on the near side. However, the far side is heavily cratered as I have pointed out above and the largest known impact crater in the solar system is on the far side.

From your link

"in [1]. The impact probability of each orbital
element bin was then weighted by the relative number
of asteroids or comets in that bin as estimated by Bottke
et al. [2]. This model assumes that the population
of small bodies is currently in steady state, which is
probably a reasonable assumption for the past...


What a scream, you thought I was kidding???

 

[dad]

And I clearly pointed out that a perfect creation would not contain the seeds of its own destruction. That fact that you can't see that shows that your logic circuits are indeed very faulty.

I offer YOU as evidence. Are not you part of His creation? Are you destructed? Is earth destroyed? No. Will it ever be? No. It is forever, only this present heavens and earth will pass away, but we will have new ones. Therefore no seeds as you claim exist! The culling of some life, in this sinful world is expected, so that it can live on. You can relax, we ain't going nowhere.

 

[Patashu]

From your link

"in [1]. The impact probability of each orbital
element bin was then weighted by the relative number
of asteroids or comets in that bin as estimated by Bottke
et al. [2]. This model assumes that the population
of small bodies is currently in steady state, which is
probably a reasonable assumption for the past...


What a scream, you thought I was kidding???

Well, if you want to show that the assumption is wrong, by all means go for it.

 

[AV1611VET]

LOL, Dad --- thanks for coming back!

 

[FishFace]

In Irwin's case he changed his life, and started to preach, speak, and climb the mountain hr thought the ark was on.

So Irwin went to the moon. And he also started preaching and climbing mountains. Do you have any evidence of cause and effect?

It was an impact, and the results of that impact ran deep in the men, at least some of them, to the point of changed lives.

I'm hardly surprised that going to the moon changed people's lives. It signifies nothing.

An effect denotes a cause. The impact on the men on the moon had to have a cause.

Sure. So what evidence do you have that spirits in the moon were the cause? None at all.

What evidence is it you imagine someone tossed anywhere??

You said you were tossing out evidence.

Well we can compare notes. Why do you think they are so?

Because the moon was formed when a large piece of rock hit the earth, forming a molten blob of rock in space, which became the moon.

Yes, I do, have you heard of a thing called history?? Look into it.

You're still assuming that gravity worked the same 200 years ago. You have no evidence for it.

So you admit all you have is opinion!

And Ockham's razor.

Let's take this in baby steps for you. Do you believe there really are spirits under this earth as we speak???

Let me see. No.

The impact on their lives.

Get this: they went to the moon. Of course they had a life-changing experience - no spirits required.

I find that hard to do. I gravitate toward relevant ones.

Ironyyyy.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

So has the bible. So has God. So have most believers. When I see some in the locks of an absurd myth, it doesn't hurt them to laugh. After the chuckles stop, then they may look at the evidence, and question, if they may have been duped after all? It is that suspicious glance at your wild fable teaching, that I seek to fan. That is the first step to getting free from it.

We are not laughing at the Bible or God perhaps you are confusing yourself in your delusion. We are laughing at the idea that there are men in the moon.

Why would the moon as a way station, or even some sort of base be all that funny? Did not Jesus get lifted up from the earth into heaven? Where did He go up there? He obviously is still alive and well, and soon coming back down for some unfinished business. So, if He first went to the moon, would that be so strange? Would it be so much better if someone claimed it was Orion? The root issues here, is that either we believe in real living beings in spiritual form at the moment somewhere other than earth, nearby, or we don't. I daresay that most folks that would oppose the possibility of spirits in the moon, would also oppose the reality of spirits in ythe earth! Right? Fess up.

Well, why would those that don'r even believe in Him to start with, suddenly get so concerned with defending His reputation?

Who said I don't believe in God. It only the bungling capricious God of the Old Testament Biblical literalitsts I don't believe in.

No he is not. The bible tells us that stuff. Maybe you better start accusing God of being real, and doing what He said. Nothing wrong with that. He does not need you to pussyfoot around, teaching fables, to cover for His idiocy. Thank you very much.


Tough. God is right, you are wrong. Deal with it. Your buddies are also wrong.

Your interpretation the the Bible is not God and it is wrong. End of story.

Your idea of atrocity is not God's idea. He does things in love, and unless you see that, you miss the point. Whooooosh.

1 Samuel 15:3 (King James Version)

This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass

Some love, whooosh indeed.

Thanks for sharing what you believe, and what goes round your head.

[No where does the bible or Christians say God messed up. You are confused.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If he hadn't "messed" why did he repent what he did. I think you are the one who is confused.

 

[Contracelsus]

The perfect storm, the confluence of a gross lack of introspection, denial of history and ignoranc of science, all wrapped up in fierce declarations of fealty toward those things. Sophistry at its most base.

It is refreshing to see the two powerhouses of this form of epistemology on this very forum.

Dad and AV1611VET.

Two anencephalic street preachers who would lovingly destroy science, philosophy and human thought to replace it with their own disorganized ramblings.

Two towering "leading lights" of Fundamentalist Thought. Behold the might of age and a distinct lack of education.

Make sure to encourage your children to read their stuff so that you can more thoroughly convince them that they need to stay in school, get an education, and most importantly, pay attention to the world around them.

 

[PsychMJC]

Nope --- try answering it as it was written. Let's not interchange anything. Let's not add anything to the scenario. Let's just answer it. I can't dumb it down any further than what it is.

No, no you cannot. You could not possibly dumb down your comments any further...