Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

coffee4u

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This guy does a much better summing up some of it, relevant to our current holiday:

So this is video you keep saying to watch right?
Our Fake Thanksgiving - SOME MORE NEWS?

So far I have seen a silly sounding man and an even sillier sounding puppet, is this what Americans consider an informative video? I am not watching 1 hour and 13 minutes of that.


How about I sum up what I know about thanksgiving as a non American, see how that compares.

So the pilgrims who were religious exiles land on Plymouth Rock, nearly starve to death because they have no idea how to work the land and the local natives help them out.
They then have a feast because they were grateful for the help because they believed they deserved the help, that God used the natives to help then survive because they were meant to be here. But once this was achieved they plotted how to get rid of their helpers because really God had given them this land. They then went on and as more people arrived swept across the US killing and pushing out natives as they went.
Hows that?

People come-people invade-people kill. It's a tale as old as time.
Which of course has also been done by virtually every race and culture across the planet to smaller and larger degrees including the native Americans to each other (but never on such a large scale because small-pox)
Because all people are evil sinners, no matter who they are.

Romans 3:9-26


All People Are Sinners
9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
10 As the Scriptures say,

“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”
13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.”
“Snake venom drips from their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They don’t know where to find peace.”
18 “They have no fear of God at all."


All people.
 
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LockeeDeck

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Disproportionaly commit the crime you disproportionaly do the time.

More like disproportionately likely to lose their cases. Black people have less access to legal council and are more likely to evidence planted against them. This is on top of jury bias against black people in general. You know that in self defense cases a black person is over 200 times more likely to lose the case over a white person.

Let's ask this though, do you believe that all of our systems are perfectly fair to all people?
If so, what year was this miracle achieved?
 
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IWalkAlone

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More like disproportionately likely to lose their cases. Black people have less access to legal council and are more likely to evidence planted against them. This is on top of jury bias against black people in general. You know that in self defense cases a black person is over 200 times more likely to lose the case over a white person.

Let's ask this though, do you believe that all of our systems are perfectly fair to all people?
If so, what year was this miracle achieved?
Where is your evidence? Do you think they let white criminals go free? Its not happening. All criminals face prosecution.
 
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LockeeDeck

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Where is your evidence? Do you think they let white criminals go free? Its not happening. All criminals face prosecution.

You can't be that naive. Not all people who committed crimes get prosecuted and not all people who get prosecuted committed crimes.

That aside though, you asked about modern day systemic oppression. I assume that means you believe there was historical oppression so I ask again, what year did that end?
 
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IWalkAlone

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You can't be that naive. Not all people who committed crimes get prosecuted and not all people who get prosecuted committed crimes.

That aside though, you asked about modern day systemic oppression. I assume that means you believe there was historical oppression so I ask again, what year did that end?
It ended after civil rights and the end of Jim crow laws. That ended systemic racism.
 
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IWalkAlone

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You can't be that naive. Not all people who committed crimes get prosecuted and not all people who get prosecuted committed crimes.

That aside though, you asked about modern day systemic oppression. I assume that means you believe there was historical oppression so I ask again, what year did that end?
You can't be that naive. Most criminals are guilty not innocent.
 
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LockeeDeck

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It ended after civil rights and the end of Jim crow laws. That ended systemic racism.

Yes Jim Crow was systemic racism but to think all systemic racism ended when Jim Crow ended is a very myopic view of systemic racism. Redlining came after Jim Crow and that alone accounts for a lot of disparity between racial groups. So would you not consider the systemic exclusion of black people from the opportunity to own homes in nicer neighborhoods systemic racism? If not then what was that?
 
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LockeeDeck

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You can't be that naive. Most criminals are guilty not innocent.

Most but not all, so you agree that the legal system can be imperfect. A legal system that you agree was explicitly racist just a generation ago.
 
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LockeeDeck

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You think they are letting white criminals go free but thats not true.

I never said anything about white criminals. Getting out of jail is a privilege reserved for the wealthy and the police. What I was referring to might be described as "black disadvantage" in regards to the legal system.
 
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IWalkAlone

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Yes Jim Crow was systemic racism but to think all systemic racism ended when Jim Crow
Yes Jim Crow was systemic racism but to think all systemic racism ended when Jim Crow ended is a very myopic view of systemic racism. Redlining came after Jim Crow and that alone accounts for a lot of disparity between racial groups. So would you not consider the systemic exclusion of black people from the opportunity to own homes in nicer neighborhoods systemic racism? If not then what was that?
Black people buy in nice neighborhoods all the time.
Black folks buy in nice neighborhoods all the time.
 
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IWalkAlone

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I never said anything about white criminals. Getting out of jail is a privilege reserved for the wealthy and the police. What I was referring to might be described as "black disadvantage" in regards to the legal system.
If blacks go to jail more often because the system is racist, this means they are letting whites go free.
 
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rjs330

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The meal itself does nothing, but there is a fake narrative around thanksgiving that does do harm and minimalize what natives have gone through.

Thanksgiving doesn't oppress anyone. It's not a systemic oppression of Native Americans.
 
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RDKirk

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LockeeDeck

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Black folks buy in nice neighborhoods all the time.

What you mean is that it's possible for black people to buy homes in formerly redlined areas. This is true but a lot of generational wealth is passed through home ownership and redlining was less than a generation ago. You can see how that would cause problems in the present day.

Either way, redlining is an example of systemic racism that existed after jim crow. Modern systemic racism is more subtle. As Nixon's aide put it "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news."

it was racist in some places.

Legal systemic racism was not exclusive to the south.

If blacks go to jail more often because the system is racist, this means they are letting whites go free.

I was pointing out the many ways blacks are at a disadvantage in the legal system as examples of systemic racism. I'm not even sure how you got "white people go free" from that but the key take away is that modern systemic racism exists and that it takes many forms.
 
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LockeeDeck

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It's hard to determine that's not a class issue.

Racial and class issues are interlinked especially when you factor in redlining.

That's not systemic, though, but individual bias.

A system that is executed by people with individual bias is a bias system unless something is done to counter act that bias.
 
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IWalkAlone

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What you mean is that it's possible for black people to buy homes in formerly redlined areas. This is true but a lot of generational wealth is passed through home ownership and redlining was less than a generation ago. You can see how that would cause problems in the present day.

Either way, redlining is an example of systemic racism that existed after jim crow. Modern systemic racism is more subtle. As Nixon's aide put it "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news."



Legal systemic racism was not exclusive to the south.



I was pointing out the many ways blacks are at a disadvantage in the legal system as examples of systemic racism. I'm not even sure how you got "white people go free" from that but the key take away is that modern systemic racism exists and that it takes many forms.
Most people work for their home. You haven't given me true examples of modern systemic racism. You complain because blacks have to work for their homes but thats the way its done by mostly everyone. Whites work for their homes too. So where is the racism?
 
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RDKirk

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Racial and class issues are interlinked especially when you factor in redlining.

The problem today, though, is not systemic racism, but a continuing holdover from past racism. The ways to correct that are not to correct "racism" but to correct issues such as employment, education,

For example, it was a peculiar kind of blindness demonstrated when people asked Sanders, "What are you going to do for black people?" Sanders answered, "Free college educations and Medicare for all" and black people didn't get it.

A system that is executed by people with individual bias is a bias system unless something is done to counter act that bias.

It's possible to create systems to catch biased individuals, but that's not done by presuming systemic bias.
 
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