modern day interpretation of EGW

[EastCoastRemnant]

Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun---it's what makes the world go round anymore, not love. The whole world is hell bent on having fun--and to them fun is drinking, and spending money., They have no respect for money., You take these young stars, they can not have enough fun--drugs, booze, lavish homes, lavish jewelery, pampering of your body--it occupies their every waking moment, the rest of the time, they work, and they want to be sure they fun fun while they work. The world is in constant search for another "high." Even if you're watching tv or reading a book--it has got to grip your mind and absoloutely engulf you in adrenalin and endorphins or it is no good. We are addicted to adrenalin and enordphins!! Feel good--Yes--SDA's are against all that. You make it sound like that is a bad thing. You can not know what joy in life means until you are removed from all of that fake "stuff" and it's just you and God. We go into shock--Now, what do I do?--We do not have to spend 14 hrs a day eeking out a living, making our own food, our own clothes, taking care of livestock from which we will get more to live on. We just go to the store and are confronted with "{which of the 40 products for each need do I choose?"__There is a wall of shampoos, creme rinse, conditioners, shine producers, --you can't even figure out which mouth rinse to use! All we have to do is flip a switch and we have lights and energy to cook with--we do not have to go out in the back 40 and gather and chop wood and rendar tallow and get wax for candles and oil burning lanterns. Whatever time used to be spend on just gathering to survive, we now have to spend on doing what?????---OH, YAH--FUN. That 10% that goes to the church is so much better spent on fancy iphones, gourmet food (And the pans to cook them in), no end of supplements (guilty)--because our food is nutrition poor, but flavor full. Even our water has to be flavored, sweetened, aromatic, but still without calories. Instead of spending our time with God--as Enoch did--we must have our brains bombarded with music, blood and gore, adultry, violence and sex. That is getting old so now we must have it in HD and 3D and Stereo and pretty soon--we'll be able to smell it and taste it---It is not good to have 2 seconds of time without noise--we might hear the voice of God, then what will we do??

Love it!! Completely on point..

 

[JohnMarsten]

Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun---it's what makes the world go round anymore, not love. The whole world is hell bent on having fun--and to them fun is drinking, and spending money., They have no respect for money., You take these young stars, they can not have enough fun--drugs, booze, lavish homes, lavish jewelery, pampering of your body--it occupies their every waking moment, the rest of the time, they work, and they want to be sure they fun fun while they work. The world is in constant search for another "high." Even if you're watching tv or reading a book--it has got to grip your mind and absoloutely engulf you in adrenalin and endorphins or it is no good. We are addicted to adrenalin and enordphins!! Feel good--Yes--SDA's are against all that. You make it sound like that is a bad thing. You can not know what joy in life means until you are removed from all of that fake "stuff" and it's just you and God. We go into shock--Now, what do I do?--We do not have to spend 14 hrs a day eeking out a living, making our own food, our own clothes, taking care of livestock from which we will get more to live on. We just go to the store and are confronted with "{which of the 40 products for each need do I choose?"__There is a wall of shampoos, creme rinse, conditioners, shine producers, --you can't even figure out which mouth rinse to use! All we have to do is flip a switch and we have lights and energy to cook with--we do not have to go out in the back 40 and gather and chop wood and rendar tallow and get wax for candles and oil burning lanterns. Whatever time used to be spend on just gathering to survive, we now have to spend on doing what?????---OH, YAH--FUN. That 10% that goes to the church is so much better spent on fancy iphones, gourmet food (And the pans to cook them in), no end of supplements (guilty)--because our food is nutrition poor, but flavor full. Even our water has to be flavored, sweetened, aromatic, but still without calories. Instead of spending our time with God--as Enoch did--we must have our brains bombarded with music, blood and gore, adultry, violence and sex. That is getting old so now we must have it in HD and 3D and Stereo and pretty soon--we'll be able to smell it and taste it---It is not good to have 2 seconds of time without noise--we might hear the voice of God, then what will we do??

While there is definitely some truth in it I would be very careful with believing it.

Fist of all, not all people are like this, yes, countries like the US, the UK or other western countries will have it more, and yes, countries who dont have it desire it.

But what are you indeed fighting against? Sometimes I dont realize your point?

Fun? everyone wants to have fun, yes. Are we to to say we dont want no fun, no fun at all? even the bible speaks about fun (read king salomon).

what have you got against the supermarket? would you prefer the old barter trade system, in which you practically had to care for everything?

Personally I would actually like that, or actually something similar, I like the idea of the ancient indian tribes, you know, living in a tribal community and together fight for survival, I would definitely like that.

I believe there is nothing wrong with what you have written, except maybe for the drugs and a couple other things, I think if we consume it in a moderate way, its Ok, I dont like 3d, but why not have HD Tv, its progress, youd better ask the quesiton if we need a Tv at all.

Love, yes thats the one to go! is it present in the SDA? I doubt that...

This is our world we live in, and there many things that are not OK, we dont have to follow that, but being an outsider doesnt help alot, and yes, there is a world in the SDA as well, if you look closely you will realize that many things of the world are present in the SDA, maybe not the biblical wine, or the biblical fun, but definitely the unbiblical back biting, envy, hierachy, etc. so no, I dont think that the SDA has the solution to the worlds problems, the solution is Jesus, and the world to come. And having fun, is not the big problem it all depends on what you understand fun is...

 

[mmksparbud]

Of course I am not against fun--Even God knows we need it--He wants us happy, to have life and that more abundantly--laughter does good-like medicine--Have you ever added up how many Holy Days (holidays!) that God gave the Jews?--I know they all had a meaning, but it was also to get away from work and the everyday struggles. There are sour-pusses in every religion--I do not happen to be one. I have been gifted with a rather warped sense of humor and it has come out at what some people might call inappropriate ways or times. Oh, well!-- It saved my sanity--if you can laugh at it, then it's not so bad. I do not trust people without a sense of humor--and please do not tell me that God doesn't have one--have you pictured a camel trying to get through the eye of the needle yet??--And I know--without a doubt--that there are times when God has had to sit there laughing till the tears flowed at some of our stupidities. I have this very clear picture of God slapping His forhead with His hand and saying--"Didn't I just tell her not to do that?"--Or, more frequently--"Just what part of thou shalt not is it, that they do not understand???"--We love to sit and watch children, puppies, baby anythings playing--it's a riot! And I think God enjoys His children--when they're having good time, just like we like watching our kids. I am not fighting against anything--I think we, in this country, are spoiled. It's only been lately, with all these disasters that people are starting to look at things more seriously. I love supermarkets--I was thinking of this family that had been raised in some 3rd world country till the kids were teenagers (parents were missionaries) and when they got here they went into a supermarket to get some shampoo--they were in shock, stood there staring at this wall of stuff and they could not make up their mind and left--in a daze. They were used to going to a store that carried one, at most 2 brands of something. If I'm fighting anything it's the whole mentality that you can not have any fun unless your drinking--SDA's--poor sad little things--can't dance, can't drink, can't eat pork, blah, blah, blah--Balogny--What do you do with a girl if you can't have sex, drink, dance to wild music, do drugs, tell dirty jokes--?? People do not know what to do with themselves without tv and all the rest--What did the world do before all this stuff? You end up actually using your mind! I never had seen tv till I came to the states--the whole neighborhood was outside playing with the kids after work. The kids were outside playing all day, while the parents were working--there we all took care of everybody--hungry--let's go to that ones house, or this other one--we carved toys out of sticks, we made dolls out of rags, we played marbles, never, ever, did anybody go home and say "I'm bored!" I've never been around "sadventists"--even the elderly--and I had to take care of a few--had a great sense of humor and loved life--which is a good thing, seeing as they live to be over 100! My Aunt was active until 3 mths before she died after she turned 100. Devout SDA--colporter in the jungles of Honduras on a horse--she was nearly 6 feet tall, and stunningly beautiful--mass of jet black wavy hair to her waist and white skin -she was proud of the fact she had "known" only one man in her life--the father of her only child. Also a devout SDA now in her 80's and in better health than I am. These 2 women can fill several books with the times that God intervined in their lives. Just because we do not engage in the amusements that the world calls fun, does not in any way mean we do not enjoy life!

 

[JohnMarsten]

Of course I am not against fun--Even God knows we need it--He wants us happy, to have life and that more abundantly--laughter does good-like medicine--Have you ever added up how many Holy Days (holidays!) that God gave the Jews?--I know they all had a meaning, but it was also to get away from work and the everyday struggles. There are sour-pusses in every religion--I do not happen to be one. I have been gifted with a rather warped sense of humor and it has come out at what some people might call inappropriate ways or times. Oh, well!-- It saved my sanity--if you can laugh at it, then it's not so bad. I do not trust people without a sense of humor--and please do not tell me that God doesn't have one--have you pictured a camel trying to get through the eye of the needle yet??--And I know--without a doubt--that there are times when God has had to sit there laughing till the tears flowed at some of our stupidities. I have this very clear picture of God slapping His forhead with His hand and saying--"Didn't I just tell her not to do that?"--Or, more frequently--"Just what part of thou shalt not is it, that they do not understand???"--We love to sit and watch children, puppies, baby anythings playing--it's a riot! And I think God enjoys His children--when they're having good time, just like we like watching our kids. I am not fighting against anything--I think we, in this country, are spoiled. It's only been lately, with all these disasters that people are starting to look at things more seriously. I love supermarkets--I was thinking of this family that had been raised in some 3rd world country till the kids were teenagers (parents were missionaries) and when they got here they went into a supermarket to get some shampoo--they were in shock, stood there staring at this wall of stuff and they could not make up their mind and left--in a daze. They were used to going to a store that carried one, at most 2 brands of something. If I'm fighting anything it's the whole mentality that you can not have any fun unless your drinking--SDA's--poor sad little things--can't dance, can't drink, can't eat pork, blah, blah, blah--Balogny--What do you do with a girl if you can't have sex, drink, dance to wild music, do drugs, tell dirty jokes--?? People do not know what to do with themselves without tv and all the rest--What did the world do before all this stuff? You end up actually using your mind! I never had seen tv till I came to the states--the whole neighborhood was outside playing with the kids after work. The kids were outside playing all day, while the parents were working--there we all took care of everybody--hungry--let's go to that ones house, or this other one--we carved toys out of sticks, we made dolls out of rags, we played marbles, never, ever, did anybody go home and say "I'm bored!" I've never been around "sadventists"--even the elderly--and I had to take care of a few--had a great sense of humor and loved life--which is a good thing, seeing as they live to be over 100! My Aunt was active until 3 mths before she died after she turned 100. Devout SDA--colporter in the jungles of Honduras on a horse--she was nearly 6 feet tall, and stunningly beautiful--mass of jet black wavy hair to her waist and white skin -she was proud of the fact she had "known" only one man in her life--the father of her only child. Also a devout SDA now in her 80's and in better health than I am. These 2 women can fill several books with the times that God intervined in their lives. Just because we do not engage in the amusements that the world calls fun, does not in any way mean we do not enjoy life!

Like I said, there is some truth inwhat you say. There are things that should be consumed in a moderate way, everything that is done in a compulsive way will turn against us. IMO we cannot forbid the use of alcohol and claim the bible tells us to do so.

I think the whole problem originated with EGW, she said the bible does not sanction alcohol, and I think it was her who came up with the grape juice theory. It goes against my conscience and I cannot promote those lies. It goes without speaking that alcohol needs to be consumed with care. It can be dangerous but that is another problem.

It is like STDs, you can get them, or cannot get them if you abstain from sex your whole life, hope you get what I mean... there is a right way of doing for everything... abstaining from something and telling lies, and calling it sin, thats not for me...

 

[Stryder06]

Its never a bad thing to help the ministry but I must admit that the SDA is a little bit insolent when it comes to asking people for their money. |There never seems to be enough, and when you think about it, and compare it with the good book it goes like this:

Old testament - tithes - some of which were shared with the poor on food and strong drink

sda - tithes - no sharing whatsoever, the whole amount doesnt even go your local church (as would be most biblical) but is gathered at a national level, like in a government

New testament - no tithes - money is shared with the poor and given to everyone according to their needs

sda - money is never shared with the poor, (never seen it)

The spirit of the new testament was different in that regard, even of the old testament. Its like SDAs have no love for the poor...

Tithe goes to the support of our Pastors (that's how they get paid) and missionaries, homeless, etc. So yes, our tithe money is used to support the poor. Just because you don't see folk handing it out on the street doesn't mean it isn't being used that way.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Tithe goes to the support of our Pastors (that's how they get paid) and missionaries, homeless, etc. So yes, our tithe money is used to support the poor. Just because you don't see folk handing it out on the street doesn't mean it isn't being used that way.

thats great news, I think I will be able to get better sleep...

 

[Stryder06]

thats great news, I think I will be able to get better sleep...

I think you'd sleep better if you ended your crusade against Adventism. Just a suggestion.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I think you'd sleep better if you ended your crusade against Adventism. Just a suggestion.

I dont know what you were thinking, but its actually not a crusade, I found this forum by happenstance and got somehow inspired to participate.

You know, I like to reason, with anybody and I was curious how other SDAs react to certain things, there are so many different approaches, its amazing.

 

[Stryder06]

I dont know what you were thinking, but its actually not a crusade, I found this forum by happenstance and got somehow inspired to participate.

You know, I like to reason, with anybody and I was curious how other SDAs react to certain things, there are so many different approaches, its amazing.

Curious how we'd react? Are you conducting some type of reflex tests?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Curious how we'd react? Are you conducting some type of reflex tests?

Yes, I am writing a book especially about your person

just kidding,

its always interesting to see how people answer certain questions, or in other words what is their opinion. Usually SDAs tend to run away from these kind of topics since they have been taught that everyone who presents another point of view must be bad, so they run away from people asking difficult question or demonise people like me or other, they even tend to spread lies, but since this is an internet forum, and people are more or less anonymous I think there is less fear to discuss certain things, isnt it?

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, I am writing a book especially about your person

just kidding,

its always interesting to see how people answer certain questions, or in other words what is their opinion. Usually SDAs tend to run away from these kind of topics since they have been taught that everyone who presents another point of view must be bad, so they run away from people asking difficult question or demonise people like me or other, they even tend to spread lies, but since this is an internet forum, and people are more or less anonymous I think there is less fear to discuss certain things, isnt it?

Hearing things like this makes me wonder what kind of experiences you've had. I've heard more lies from ex-sda members than I ever have from current members. But I guess everyone is going to have their own experiences. And I don't feel the "nothing is true" notion when it comes to my beliefs. Some things I can explain. Some things I can't. I'm fine with that. Entering into debates are pointless and more so than not, do not bring glory to God.

Doubt is what Satan wants from us. And doubt is what most questions cause. And since God has revealed to me, from His word, AND through the writings of Sr White, certain things in regards to, religion, and what I believe, I've decided to stick it out all the way right where I am.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hearing things like this makes me wonder what kind of experiences you've had. I've heard more lies from ex-sda members than I ever have from current members. But I guess everyone is going to have their own experiences. And I don't feel the "nothing is true" notion when it comes to my beliefs. Some things I can explain. Some things I can't. I'm fine with that. Entering into debates are pointless and more so than not, do not bring glory to God.

Doubt is what Satan wants from us. And doubt is what most questions cause. And since God has revealed to me, from His word, AND through the writings of Sr White, certain things in regards to, religion, and what I believe, I've decided to stick it out all the way right where I am.

My sentiments exactly...

 

[JohnMarsten]

My sentiments exactly...

Dont worry! Its OK. No problems here.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Hearing things like this makes me wonder what kind of experiences you've had. I've heard more lies from ex-sda members than I ever have from current members. But I guess everyone is going to have their own experiences. And I don't feel the "nothing is true" notion when it comes to my beliefs. Some things I can explain. Some things I can't. I'm fine with that. Entering into debates are pointless and more so than not, do not bring glory to God.

Doubt is what Satan wants from us. And doubt is what most questions cause. And since God has revealed to me, from His word, AND through the writings of Sr White, certain things in regards to, religion, and what I believe, I've decided to stick it out all the way right where I am.

so does blindly accepting EGW bring more glory to God?

besides I dont think that there is an option like nothing is true, there is always some truth in it... I just dont buy the whole package that is being sold

 

[Stryder06]

so does blindly accepting EGW bring more glory to God?

besides I dont think that there is an option like nothing is true, there is always some truth in it... I just dont buy the whole package that is being sold

Either she was all right, or all wrong. There is no in-between. She couldn't have been used by God partially and used by Satan the rest of the time. And no one is saying to blindly follow her. She isn't the one you're supposed to follow. Like I said before, Sr White advocates a life of self sacrifice. People don't like that and so to avoid what she teaches, she's cast into the false prophet bucket. Strangely enough, nothing she teaches contradicts the scriptures.

And yes, I know the arguments for the "wine" issue, and the "meat" issues. And I stand my ground in saying that from my understanding of scripture, and from what she says, the two are in harmony.

 

[ricker]

Either she was all right, or all wrong. There is no in-between. She couldn't have been used by God partially and used by Satan the rest of the time. And no one is saying to blindly follow her. She isn't the one you're supposed to follow. Like I said before, Sr White advocates a life of self sacrifice. People don't like that and so to avoid what she teaches, she's cast into the false prophet bucket. Strangely enough, nothing she teaches contradicts the scriptures.

And yes, I know the arguments for the "wine" issue, and the "meat" issues. And I stand my ground in saying that from my understanding of scripture, and from what she says, the two are in harmony.

Would the underlined statement apply to Martin Luther? John MacArthur? Desmond Ford? Doug Batchelor?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Would the underlined statement apply to Martin Luther? John MacArthur? Desmond Ford? Doug Batchelor?

I would have to agree with you in part Ricker... Ellen was a sinner like the rest of us and struggled in her walk. I think you can say that about all the people God has used... think about Noah, Moses, David, Solomon, Peter, and even Paul who said he was the chief sinner. We can't put anyone on a pedestal.

Yes, I agree with Stryder that is visions and prophetic utterences, she had to be consistent but there was a lot of here writings that were good counsel and not thus sayeth the Lord... was the divine ideal expreessed through her counsel? I believe so, but there are so many fundamentals that we need to get right before we should worry about the 'finer points'.

 

[ricker]

I would have to agree with you in part Ricker... Ellen was a sinner like the rest of us and struggled in her walk. I think you can say that about all the people God has used... think about Noah, Moses, David, Solomon, Peter, and even Paul who said he was the chief sinner. We can't put anyone on a pedestal.

Yes, I agree with Stryder that is visions and prophetic utterences, she had to be consistent but there was a lot of here writings that were good counsel and not thus sayeth the Lord... was the divine ideal expreessed through her counsel? I believe so, but there are so many fundamentals that we need to get right before we should worry about the 'finer points'.

I made my statement, obviously, to show that an author doesn't have to be all right or all wrong.

The only way Stryder can justify his statement

Either she was all right, or all wrong. There is no in-between. She couldn't have been used by God partially and used by Satan the rest of the time

is to put EGW's thousands of pages of writings equal with the Bible.

 

[tall73]

For instance, I remember reading something she said in regards to photos in a person's home. It came to my attention that her grievance with the pictures wasn't that the pictures were bad, but that at the time, the cost for such a thing was astronomical, and yet people would spend money on furnishing their homes with family photos, but wouldn't give to the ministry.

Here are some of her comments regarding photos.

These photographs cost money. Is it consistent for us, knowing the work that is to be done at this time, to spend God's money in producing pictures of our own faces and the faces of our friends? Should not every dollar that we can spare be used in the upbuilding of the cause of God? These pictures take money that should be sacredly devoted to God's service; and they divert the mind from the truths of God's word. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 3}

This making and exchanging photographs is a species of idolatry. Satan is doing all he can to eclipse heaven from our view. Let us not help him by making picture‑idols. We need to reach a higher standard than these human faces suggest. The Lord says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Those who claim to believe in Christ need to realize that they are to reflect His image. It is His likeness that is to be kept before the mind. The words that are spoken are to be freighted with heavenly inspiration. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 4}
....


Every dollar is required in the work of saving souls. The money invested by the professed people of God in getting pictures made of human faces would support several missionaries in the field. Many small streams, when put together, swell into a large river. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 9}

The youth have their hearts filled with the love of self. This is manifested in their desire to see their faces daguerreotyped by the artist; and they are not satisfied with being once represented, but sit again and again for their picture, each time hoping that the last will excel all their previous efforts and appear really more beautiful than the original. Their Lord's money is squandered in this way, and what is gained? Merely their poor shadow upon paper. The hours that should have been devoted to prayer are occupied upon their own poor selves; precious hours of probation are thus wasted. {1T 500.2} [1855-1868]

We have a constant contest with idolatry. Many things which gratify the lust of the eye are taking precious time and stealing away precious money. The senses are pleased but God is robbed both of time and money. I am pained to see the photographs multiplied and hanging everywhere. {1888 887.3} [January 22, 1891]



However, here are her comments about her own photographic endeavors:


We received yours [i.e., letter] which contained the number of pictures to be sent. They are slow in getting them out. We send from Ingelson's seven each. We sent from Lathrop's and Dunham's, six each. You will see that Lathrop has the preference. I thought that mine from Ingelson's was perfect, but I did not think yours was good. I have just received half a dozen from Lathrop's and Dunham's of mine. It is the judgment of all that this last is far better than Ingelson's. What do you think? We have a few of the small size of yours, but none yet of mine. {8MR 76.1}

Lathrop is as pleased a man as you ever saw with the pictures, especially of you. He says he will sell you the negative for five hundred dollars. Beside what we take, it will bring him that much custom. He thinks Ingelson's a flat affair. He [Lathrop] has your picture in the window for show.--Letter 1a, 1876, p. 1. (To James White, March 24, 1876.) {8MR 76.2}

In regard to our pictures, how many shall we order? Dunham gave me mine as well as yours--one dozen each. This is liberal, I think. Everyone thinks these last [pictures] from Dunham's are perfect. What is your judgment? Lucinda's are not yet finished. No orders, he says, were left for him, but one dozen will be finished in a short time.--Letter 3, 1876, pp. 3, 4. (To James White, April 4, 1876.) {8MR 76.3}

I have just gotten the picture Dunham has made. I do not like it. Shall not order any till you see it and send your opinion of it.--Letter 12, 1876, p. 1. (To James White, April 21, 1876.) {8MR 76.4}

In regard to my small picture, I did sit once again, but the picture was not good. Will try it again. Mary and Willie did not get good pictures, but they will try it again.--Letter 15, 1876. (To James White, April 27, 1876.) {8MR 77.1}

I do not think I shall ever get a picture to equal the one Dunham has made for me. He says I had better have the large one put on a small card. What do you think of this plan?--Letter 17, 1876, p. 2. (To James White, April 30, 1876.) {8MR 77.2}

Father, I am sure, has confidence in you. We often hear him speak of you and Emma with pleasure in high terms. He shows your pictures and he calls you two his "canaries."--Letter 22, 1879, p. 1. (To Edson White, July 1, 1879.) {8MR 77.4}

If you have Father's pictures, please bring them. I want to show them. My pocket album I left at Healdsburg.--Letter 15, 1882, p. 1. (To W. C. White, May 23, 1882). {8MR 77.5}

Well, Addie [Walling], I would be pleased to have you get your picture taken and write to May [Walling] to do the same. I will settle the bills. I want to see the faces of my children once more.--Letter 101, 1886, p. 4. (To Addie Walling, July 21, 1886.) {8MR 79.2}

 

[tall73]

Yes, I agree with Stryder that is visions and prophetic utterences, she had to be consistent but there was a lot of here writings that were good counsel and not thus sayeth the Lord...

The quotes noted earlier shows she rejects this kind of parsing of her work to discern the divine and human. So how can you say you accept her but continue to do this?