modern day interpretation of EGW

[tall73]

I would have to agree with you in part Ricker... Ellen was a sinner like the rest of us and struggled in her walk. I think you can say that about all the people God has used... think about Noah, Moses, David, Solomon, Peter, and even Paul who said he was the chief sinner. We can't put anyone on a pedestal.

Agreed. Her being a sinner doesn't rule her out as a prophet. However, Adventists also can't take Stryder's view of just blocking it all out if they want to continue to call others to make decisions to leave "Babylon" by comparing their beliefs with the Bible.

If Ellen is above comparison with the Bible then how can others be called to test their beliefs by the Bible?

 

[mmksparbud]

Nothing is equal to the bible--no one is equal to Christ--If someone is guided by the Holy Spirit, they still write in their own style, according to their time, and culture. Because Paul said that women are to be silent and should never teach men--Does that make him a false prophet?? Obviously we have women speaking in church and many sabbath school teachers are women. In one place the bible says the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows twice before Peter denied Christ, in another it says 3--because the bible says slaves are to work for their masters as unto God--Does that mean slavery is ok? The bible says we are to follow the laws of the land--are we to tolerate injustice because it's the law? Does that mean that the Holy Spirit did not inspire those men? Aren't they supposed to get every detail right? Was it 2 or 3 times that stupid rooster crowed---who cares?? It's still the word of God, it's still the Holy Spirit--if the Holy Spirit is inspiring someone today, is it a different Holy Spirit, or is it the same one--There is only one Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit that guided David and his words--and he was a murderer and adulterer--is the same Holy Spirit of today and tomorrow. The deciples came to Jesus and complained about some man that was casting out devils in His name but they forbade him because he did not follow them--and Christ said to let him alone--"for he who is not against us is on our part." Mark 9:38-40. And because no one is equal to Christ, that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to try to be Christlike. No, we do not like a whole lot of debating---why should we?--It has it's place, when trying to explain someone's position on something--but endless debates that get no one anywhere is useless. For whomsoever shall not hear you or receive you--shake off the dust off your feet--We can only voice our opinions and then let the dust settle where it will. No one is perfect--EGW was not translated, she was not perfect. Are you more righteous than she? Are your words to be regarded as more inspired than hers? What are her fruits, what are yours?? We follow God, Christ His Son, and trust in the Holy Spirit to guide us. Isn't that what we're all trying to do? If you can't do something if Christ was standing right next to you, then you shouldn't do it--(because He is!). After being in the world all week--what with work and all--it's nice to go to church, and not have to argue there, too.

 

[tall73]

No, we do not like a whole lot of debating---why should we?--It has it's place, when trying to explain someone's position on something--but endless debates that get no one anywhere is useless.

Sorry, doesn't compute. Adventists still have as their mission to call people out of Babylon and challenge the beliefs of all the other churches. They still say that other churches are wrong.

How does that process not involve discussing how the Adventist message measures up to the Scriptures? I thought that is what Adventists were inviting folks to do by their claims.

Adventists should own up to their mission and stop pretending they are just wanting to sit back and be left alone in the world of Christian thought.

 

[mmksparbud]

Sorry, doesn't compute. Adventists still have as their mission to call people out of Babylon and challenge the beliefs of all the other churches. They still say that other churches are wrong.

How does that process not involve discussing how the Adventist message measures up to the Scriptures? I thought that is what Adventists were inviting folks to do by their claims.

Adventists should own up to their mission and stop pretending they are just wanting to sit back and be left alone in the world of Christian thought.

I can't find where I wrote that we do not engage in any debates--just that when it's clear that someone doesn't want to hear what we have to say--than why get on that hamsters wheel?? Every christian has the order from Christ to teach all nations--and all are doing it--no question our message is different--and we present it--who says we want to be left alone in the world of christian thought??--for crying out loud, we have tv programs and we have countless seminars and are forever passing out literature. One thing we are not is quiet!! I just said it's nice to go to church and not have to argue there, too----I should have added--but we can't get away from it even there! Maybe you like endless debates, I for one do not. But I do voice my opinion, just as you do. "Other sheep have I which are not of this fold."---We stand on the word of God--just as you claim to do. Now, is there anything that I can say that is going to change your mind about an everlasting burning hell, about the sabbath, about the state of the dead?--We give you our scriptures, you give us yours, and we've been doing that over and over and over with no one budging and there comes a time when someone has enough and says "I leave you to God" and walks away and goes on to the next person. I mean, don't you get tired of saying the same thing with the same person? When I stand before God I really do not want Him asking me "How many times, by how many people, did you need to have it explained to you?" When He says--"I said to remember the 7th day--why didn't you?" What will you say?--You can quote what you always do and I will quote the 4th commandment and we'll let Him decide, 'cause right now, neither of us is budging!

 

[JohnMarsten]

Either she was all right, or all wrong. There is no in-between. She couldn't have been used by God partially and used by Satan the rest of the time. And no one is saying to blindly follow her. She isn't the one you're supposed to follow. Like I said before, Sr White advocates a life of self sacrifice. People don't like that and so to avoid what she teaches, she's cast into the false prophet bucket. Strangely enough, nothing she teaches contradicts the scriptures.

And yes, I know the arguments for the "wine" issue, and the "meat" issues. And I stand my ground in saying that from my understanding of scripture, and from what she says, the two are in harmony.

she must have blinded you good

 

[JohnMarsten]

Here are some of her comments regarding photos.

These photographs cost money. Is it consistent for us, knowing the work that is to be done at this time, to spend God's money in producing pictures of our own faces and the faces of our friends? Should not every dollar that we can spare be used in the upbuilding of the cause of God? These pictures take money that should be sacredly devoted to God's service; and they divert the mind from the truths of God's word. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 3}

This making and exchanging photographs is a species of idolatry. Satan is doing all he can to eclipse heaven from our view. Let us not help him by making picture‑idols. We need to reach a higher standard than these human faces suggest. The Lord says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Those who claim to believe in Christ need to realize that they are to reflect His image. It is His likeness that is to be kept before the mind. The words that are spoken are to be freighted with heavenly inspiration. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 4}
....


Every dollar is required in the work of saving souls. The money invested by the professed people of God in getting pictures made of human faces would support several missionaries in the field. Many small streams, when put together, swell into a large river. {RH, September 10, 1901 par. 9}

The youth have their hearts filled with the love of self. This is manifested in their desire to see their faces daguerreotyped by the artist; and they are not satisfied with being once represented, but sit again and again for their picture, each time hoping that the last will excel all their previous efforts and appear really more beautiful than the original. Their Lord's money is squandered in this way, and what is gained? Merely their poor shadow upon paper. The hours that should have been devoted to prayer are occupied upon their own poor selves; precious hours of probation are thus wasted. {1T 500.2} [1855-1868]

We have a constant contest with idolatry. Many things which gratify the lust of the eye are taking precious time and stealing away precious money. The senses are pleased but God is robbed both of time and money. I am pained to see the photographs multiplied and hanging everywhere. {1888 887.3} [January 22, 1891]



However, here are her comments about her own photographic endeavors:


We received yours [i.e., letter] which contained the number of pictures to be sent. They are slow in getting them out. We send from Ingelson's seven each. We sent from Lathrop's and Dunham's, six each. You will see that Lathrop has the preference. I thought that mine from Ingelson's was perfect, but I did not think yours was good. I have just received half a dozen from Lathrop's and Dunham's of mine. It is the judgment of all that this last is far better than Ingelson's. What do you think? We have a few of the small size of yours, but none yet of mine. {8MR 76.1}

Lathrop is as pleased a man as you ever saw with the pictures, especially of you. He says he will sell you the negative for five hundred dollars. Beside what we take, it will bring him that much custom. He thinks Ingelson's a flat affair. He [Lathrop] has your picture in the window for show.--Letter 1a, 1876, p. 1. (To James White, March 24, 1876.) {8MR 76.2}

In regard to our pictures, how many shall we order? Dunham gave me mine as well as yours--one dozen each. This is liberal, I think. Everyone thinks these last [pictures] from Dunham's are perfect. What is your judgment? Lucinda's are not yet finished. No orders, he says, were left for him, but one dozen will be finished in a short time.--Letter 3, 1876, pp. 3, 4. (To James White, April 4, 1876.) {8MR 76.3}

I have just gotten the picture Dunham has made. I do not like it. Shall not order any till you see it and send your opinion of it.--Letter 12, 1876, p. 1. (To James White, April 21, 1876.) {8MR 76.4}

In regard to my small picture, I did sit once again, but the picture was not good. Will try it again. Mary and Willie did not get good pictures, but they will try it again.--Letter 15, 1876. (To James White, April 27, 1876.) {8MR 77.1}

I do not think I shall ever get a picture to equal the one Dunham has made for me. He says I had better have the large one put on a small card. What do you think of this plan?--Letter 17, 1876, p. 2. (To James White, April 30, 1876.) {8MR 77.2}

Father, I am sure, has confidence in you. We often hear him speak of you and Emma with pleasure in high terms. He shows your pictures and he calls you two his "canaries."--Letter 22, 1879, p. 1. (To Edson White, July 1, 1879.) {8MR 77.4}

If you have Father's pictures, please bring them. I want to show them. My pocket album I left at Healdsburg.--Letter 15, 1882, p. 1. (To W. C. White, May 23, 1882). {8MR 77.5}

Well, Addie [Walling], I would be pleased to have you get your picture taken and write to May [Walling] to do the same. I will settle the bills. I want to see the faces of my children once more.--Letter 101, 1886, p. 4. (To Addie Walling, July 21, 1886.) {8MR 79.2}

and that is exactly EGW, every single dollar is reqiured, but she bought herself a nice estate, so what about those dollars?

just btw she says God is robbed of his money, is He being robbed of tithes that were used to buy the pictures?

 

[Stryder06]

she must have blinded you good

Not at all. That's just the way things go. Didn't Christ say that a house divided against itself cannot stand? If that indeed is true, than how could Ellen have been used by God and Satan simultaneously?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Not at all. That's just the way things go. Didn't Christ say that a house divided against itself cannot stand? If that indeed is true, than how could Ellen have been used by God and Satan simultaneously?

Would you say that the same thing applied to Joseph Smith, Russel and other founders of religious groups...

Why do you call other churches Babylon?

 

[Stryder06]

Would you say that the same thing applied to Joseph Smith, Russel and other founders of religious groups...

I'd say that about any false teacher. It's sad, but it's the truth. Either God is leading, and God can lead someone who is in error, so long as they are moving towards truth, or they are deceived by the adversary.

Why do you call other churches Babylon?

How did we get to this point?

 

[tall73]

I can't find where I wrote that we do not engage in any debates--just that when it's clear that someone doesn't want to hear what we have to say--than why get on that hamsters wheel?? Every christian has the order from Christ to teach all nations--and all are doing it--no question our message is different--and we present it--who says we want to be left alone in the world of christian thought??--for crying out loud, we have tv programs and we have countless seminars and are forever passing out literature. One thing we are not is quiet!! I just said it's nice to go to church and not have to argue there, too----I should have added--but we can't get away from it even there! Maybe you like endless debates, I for one do not. But I do voice my opinion, just as you do. "Other sheep have I which are not of this fold."---We stand on the word of God--just as you claim to do. Now, is there anything that I can say that is going to change your mind about an everlasting burning hell, about the sabbath, about the state of the dead?--We give you our scriptures, you give us yours, and we've been doing that over and over and over with no one budging and there comes a time when someone has enough and says "I leave you to God" and walks away and goes on to the next person. I mean, don't you get tired of saying the same thing with the same person? When I stand before God I really do not want Him asking me "How many times, by how many people, did you need to have it explained to you?" When He says--"I said to remember the 7th day--why didn't you?" What will you say?--You can quote what you always do and I will quote the 4th commandment and we'll let Him decide, 'cause right now, neither of us is budging!

If Adventists spend money on evangelism programs (and they do) why wouldn't they want free advertising right here? Lurkers do come here. You may think of it as debate with the same people. But folks who pass by also see these discussions and think about what is said. If you believe your position is correct then you should welcome discussion on these issues.

On the other hand, it appears Adventists want to call others to test their doctrines by the Bible but then shy away from defending their own doctrines by the Bible when confronted with folk who are acquainted with their teachings.

 

[tall73]

For those wanting to view a few pictures of Ellen White

Ellen G. White® Estate: Photographs


From the official site. It links to a picture database which includes more pictures of Willie, James, Ellen, Ella her granddaughter, and many others associated with the movement.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I'd say that about any false teacher. It's sad, but it's the truth. Either God is leading, and God can lead someone who is in error, so long as they are moving towards truth, or they are deceived by the adversary.



How did we get to this point?

did you just admit egw was a false teacher?

the whole thing was in regard to the house, cause you somehow (though unexplainable to me) made the connection between a house that is divided and EGW...

 

[Stryder06]

did you just admit egw was a false teacher?

Not at all.

the whole thing was in regard to the house, cause you somehow (though unexplainable to me) made the connection between a house that is divided and EGW...

Ellen's teachings are for the uplifting of the kingdom of God. They teach against sin and selfishness. How could she be used by Satan to undermine his tactics? That's why I made the statement about a house divided. And even still, how does that correlate to other churches being Babylon?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Not at all.



Ellen's teachings are for the uplifting of the kingdom of God. They teach against sin and selfishness. How could she be used by Satan to undermine his tactics? That's why I made the statement about a house divided. And even still, how does that correlate to other churches being Babylon?

the bible explicitly tells us that the devil knows righteousness as well...

other churches also teach against sin that is why I made the correlation...

 

[Stryder06]

the bible explicitly tells us that the devil knows righteousness as well...

True indeed. The Devil always mixes some truth with his error, this makes it more acceptable. Speaking some truth however does not mean that you are being lead by God. So either Sr White was wholly being lead by God, or she was a liar, self-deceived, and working for the devil. No two ways about it.

other churches also teach against sin that is why I made the correlation...

Oh...ok. Still not sure how you made that leap, but it's cool. And we don't teach that other churches are Babylon. Scripture declares that there is one harlot (an apostate church) and that she has daughters (other churches similar to the apostate one).

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

the bible explicitly tells us that the devil knows righteousness as well...

other churches also teach against sin that is why I made the correlation...

Knowing righteousness and being obedient to it's precepts aren't the same...

You asked for why we consider others as part of Babylon, or the apostacy of the harlot, the mother church.... and why we consider our movement as the remnant.

Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 19:10
... I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

What other denomination fits these two criteria? Only the SDA...

 

[mmksparbud]

If Adventists spend money on evangelism programs (and they do) why wouldn't they want free advertising right here? Lurkers do come here. You may think of it as debate with the same people. But folks who pass by also see these discussions and think about what is said. If you believe your position is correct then you should welcome discussion on these issues.

On the other hand, it appears Adventists want to call others to test their doctrines by the Bible but then shy away from defending their own doctrines by the Bible when confronted with folk who are acquainted with their teachings.

You are right--free advertising--now I'll let you in on a secret--I am talking mainly about myself--I have degenerative disc disease lower back and neck, fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, IBS, foot nueropathy pain that leaves me screaming and crying in pain, and if I walk, or stand too long, the pain is much worse, plus the mental fog with fibro--all this took my job and am now on disability and so is hubby--I have about zero patience anymore, when you've been in pain 24/7 for over 20 years, well, your nerves get a little fried. I can only spend so much time on computer. I really do hate debates anymore--but you are right and I should just suck it up and keep on trucking--it does keep me searching the scriptures all the more. I really do not know of any SDA's that are shy about quoting scriptures for our stand about anything. It's just that we read the same verses and come to different conclusions! Now--all those sheep out there in other folds please pray that this new medicine I'm using will work!!--At least that it'll make me less "snippy!" I've always had a warped sense of humor, but it has gotten a little less frequently "tickled" lately.

 

[ricker]

Not at all. That's just the way things go. Didn't Christ say that a house divided against itself cannot stand? If that indeed is true, than how could Ellen have been used by God and Satan simultaneously?

Who seeks to divide Christianity more that Adventists? Doesn't Ellen call non-SDA Christians harlots?

 

[mmksparbud]

Who seeks to divide Christianity more that Adventists? Doesn't Ellen call non-SDA Christians harlots?

Well---I looked up "harlots" under the EGW writtings and came up with zero results---I got zero results for the word "harlot" also---however--Rev 17:1, 15, 16 And Rev 19:2 all mention the word "harlot."---

 

[Pythons]

I have a picture of Ellen White to submit.