Modern Day Christmas has turned into a joke.

[Albion]

Not a problem. It is correct that the word arbitrary probably wasn't the best choice on my part. But even today, there are people insisting that the correct day would be in the spring and others insisting that it was in October, plus a few arguing for some other day.

 

[Oldmantook]

If that were so, you would think that someone would have posted it by now.

I have done my due diligence in studying this subject. While it may be helpful, I do not depend on others to do my research for me. Now days it is just a few clicks away on the keyboard. You may want to try so you can have an informed opinion. You may reach a different conclusion but at the very least inform yourself.

 

[Not David]

At least nobody criticizes Advent.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is quite a bit of evidence that the Christian Church took over existing pagan holidays and relabeled the pagan holidays

Even if they did, how does that make them, or the new holiday they celebrate, pagan?

The days of the week are named after Roman/Greek gods, as are the months of the year.
If you were born on a Thursday in June, you were born on Thor's day in Juno's month. Does that make you like the gods Thor and Juno? Does that mean you are a pagan with pagan roots?
No.
You were created by the One true God, in his image. You are, or can become, his child. You do not have Pagan roots, or links - unless you choose to, and choose to embrace a pagan lifestyle, or adopt their beliefs.

 

[JackRT]

Not a problem. It is correct that the word arbitrary probably wasn't the best choice on my part. But even today, there are people insisting that the correct day would be in the spring and others insisting that it was in October, plus a few arguing for some other day.

If the shepherds were with their flocks in the fields by night, it must have been lambing season. At all other times the shepherds would keep their sheep within a fieldstone corral and lay their bedrolls across the entrance. They were with the sheep in the field since in a crowded corral there was a very real possibility that the newborn lambs might be trampled. Lambing season in Palestine occurred around Passover which would make it early springtime. But I am certainly not about to get dogmatic about it.

 

[Albion]

I have done my due diligence in studying this subject. While it may be helpful, I do not depend on others to do my research for me. Now days it is just a few clicks away on the keyboard. You may want to try so you can have an informed opinion. You may reach a different conclusion but at the very least inform yourself.

You'll have to excuse me for not immediately taking up your dare, but this is an area in which I actually am educated...as opposed to merely having access to a search engine.

My best wishes to you. I hope to converse with you on a different subject one of these days.

 

[Albion]

If the shepherds were with their flocks in the fields by night, it must have been lambing season. At all other times the shepherds would keep their sheep within a fieldstone corral and lay their bedrolls across the entrance. They were with the sheep in the field since in a crowded corral there was a very real possibility that the newborn lambs might be trampled. Lambing season in Palestine occurred around Passover which would make it early springtime. But I am certainly not about to get dogmatic about it.

Yes, that is often argued, and it seems persuasive. Unfortunately, there are several other slants on the subject that also have a following and they too make sense. There really is no clean cut way to resolve the matter; and the more we look at it the more we may wind up concluding that it doesn't much matter which, if any of them, is "the" answer. The church made its choice for several reasons, but reworking and incorporating the pagan celebration(s) was not one of them.

 

[JacksBratt]

Christmas has always been a joke. It’s a pagan holiday, always has been, and always will be

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Messiah of Israel - even for Christians celebrating it as the birth of the Messiah, it’s a vain tradition that’s abominable in the eyes of God

Although I agree with the fact that it is now a joke, I beg to differ on the statement that it has always been, always will be and has absolutely nothing to do with the Messiah.

In the churches that I have attended in my life Christmas is a time to remember the birth of our savior. It refreshes the story of the miraculous birth and the prophesies that it fulfilled. It refreshes the mind body and soul that God does what He says and begs us to have faith that the bible is true and will be till the end.

My family always did, when I was growing up, and when I raised our own children, amplify and restate the purpose of Christmas in these times where it has been turned into a market boosting shopping frenzy.

Yes, it is not the actual time of Christ's birth... I don't care. It is a time where my family and the churches that I attend and did attend, focus on our savior.

I do think that Christ is pleased with anything that brings glory to His name and the truth of His life.

So... haters..... go and hate....

So... legalists... go and criticize that it is not the actual date.

As for me and my house... we will celebrate the birth of our savior. Remember the miracles that took place. Focus on the prophesies He fulfilled and always remember that the whole purpose of this peaceful day..... is Easter... I know, another pagan day that is still, in my mind a day that is a time to remember why my soul has salvation.

You can twist and bend any religious holiday to make it less than what it is. Or.. defame it, trying to puff up your pride as to how righteous you are...

But, in the end.. the day is to celebrate Christ's birth. I could care less if the rest of the world is just increasing their debt. I am to be in this world but not of this world.
Also, Easter will always be the day that I remember and focus on the completion of Christs purpose on this earth.. A day that Satan recognizes as his defeat.

These two days.... are connected and mean wonders to those that know the lord.

I ask that we don't squash something that still means something.

 

[Dkh587]

Although I agree with the fact that it is now a joke, I beg to differ on the statement that it has always been, always will be and has absolutely nothing to do with the Messiah.

In the churches that I have attended in my life Christmas is a time to remember the birth of our savior. It refreshes the story of the miraculous birth and the prophesies that it fulfilled. It refreshes the mind body and soul that God does what He says and begs us to have faith that the bible is true and will be till the end.

My family always did, when I was growing up, and when I raised our own children, amplify and restate the purpose of Christmas in these times where it has been turned into a market boosting shopping frenzy.

Yes, it is not the actual time of Christ's birth... I don't care. It is a time where my family and the churches that I attend and did attend, focus on our savior.

I do think that Christ is pleased with anything that brings glory to His name and the truth of His life.

So... haters..... go and hate....

So... legalists... go and criticize that it is not the actual date.

As for me and my house... we will celebrate the birth of our savior. Remember the miracles that took place. Focus on the prophesies He fulfilled and always remember that the whole purpose of this peaceful day..... is Easter... I know, another pagan day that is still, in my mind a day that is a time to remember why my soul has salvation.

You can twist and bend any religious holiday to make it less than what it is. Or.. defame it, trying to puff up your pride as to how righteous you are...

But, in the end.. the day is to celebrate Christ's birth. I could care less if the rest of the world is just increasing their debt. I am to be in this world but not of this world.
Also, Easter will always be the day that I remember and focus on the completion of Christs purpose on this earth.. A day that Satan recognizes as his defeat.

These two days.... are connected and mean wonders to those that know the lord.

I ask that we don't squash something that still means something.

Christmas is like the golden calf - we might think it honors God, but it really doesn’t. The Israelites thought the golden calf honored God - they even dedicated to God and were going to hold a celebration to God with it - but it was abominable and God did not accept it.

Celebrating a pagan feast such as Christmas, and trying to worship God with it it, is just as bad as building a golden calf and trying to worship God with it.

Christmas and Easter are about Satan, not God and Jesus. They are satanic pagan holidays that venerate the devil, and many people have been misled into thinking that these demonic holidays honor God. Not so.

The holy days in the Bible, listed in Leviticus 23, have to do with God & Jesus and the plan of God’s salvation through the Messiah, not the pagan holidays of Easter & Christmas.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

{snip} Christmas is like the golden calf - we might think it honors God, but it really doesn’t. The Israelites thought the golden calf honored God - they even dedicated to God and were going to hold a celebration to God with it - but it was abominable and God did not accept it.

Sadly, the Christian Christmas is just as fiercely defended and faithfully guarded as the perpetual lie many Christian parents tell their impressionable children that Santa Claus really does exist. I guess it's perfectly acceptable for Christians to just slap a Christian label on any non-Christian holiday they want to celebrate and the holiday will instantly become a Christian holiday. Take your pick. It could be a Pagan holiday or a Jewish holiday or a secular holiday because apparently it doesn't really matter.

I guess Christians could make any holiday from any religion a Christian holiday if they reworked it and refashioned it into the image of the Christian religion and attached Christ's name to it.

 

[JackRT]

Sadly, the Christian Christmas is just as fiercely defended and faithfully guarded as the perpetual lie many Christian parents tell their impressionable children that Santa Claus really does exist. I guess it's perfectly acceptable for Christians to just slap a Christian label on any non-Christian holiday they want to celebrate and the holiday or ritual will instantly become a Christian holiday. It could be a Pagan holiday or a Jewish holiday or a secular holiday because apparently it doesn't really matter.

I guess Christians could make any holiday from any religion a Christian holiday if they reworked it and refashioned it into the image of the Christian religion and attached Christ's name to it.

Celsus, a 2nd century pagan apologist, in speaking of Christianity wrote "Are our [pagan] beliefs to be accounted myths and theirs [Christians] believed? What reasons do the Christians give for the distinctiveness of their beliefs? In truth, there is nothing at all unusual about what the Christians believe."

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I have done my due diligence in studying this subject. While it may be helpful, I do not depend on others to do my research for me. Now days it is just a few clicks away on the keyboard. You may want to try so you can have an informed opinion. You may reach a different conclusion but at the very least inform yourself.

Easter also has some hijacked pagan rituals attached to it. I knew that both Christmas and Easter had some pagan origins attached to them but I never really looked into it in detail until I started reading this thread. I have to say that I'm astonished about what I've learned about these pagan origins.

 

[Oldmantook]

You'll have to excuse me for not immediately taking up your dare, but this is an area in which I actually am educated...as opposed to merely having access to a search engine.

My best wishes to you. I hope to converse with you on a different subject one of these days.

As you wish as that is your prerogative. My only question is since you disagree with my view (which is fine) then why did you not provide any reason(s) for your belief based on what you already know. But that is neither here nor there at this point.

 

[Not David]

Easter also has some hijacked pagan rituals attached to it. I knew that both Christmas and Easter had some pagan origins attached to them but I never really looked into it in detail until I started reading this thread. I have to say that I'm astonished about what I've learned about these pagan origins.

Fundamentalist nonsense.

 

[Oldmantook]

Easter also has some hijacked pagan rituals attached to it. I knew that both Christmas and Easter had some pagan origins attached to them but I never really looked into it in detail until I started reading this thread. I have to say that I'm astonished about what I've learned about these pagan origins.

Yes Easter has its pagan roots, not to mention Halloween of course as many churches provide an Halloween alternative buy yet still recognize the holiday and participate in it. The Christian church by and large tends to accommodate pagan practices instead of avoiding them. God has his calendar where in the OT he commanded his people to observe certain times and season and celebrate certain festivals. Satan copies the same thing as he has his calendar where his followers observe certain times/seasons especially during the solstice and equinox dates. The church no longer follows God's calendar but adopts Satan's.

 

[Albion]

As you wish as that is your prerogative. My only question is since you disagree with my view (which is fine) then why did you not provide any reason(s) for your belief based on what you already know. But that is neither here nor there at this point.

The reason is the historical record. That is what I referred to when saying that the claim which held that the Christian church purposed to take a pagan holiday, rework it, and then present it as its own was in error. Historically speaking--factually speaking--that is not what happened.

What it did was choose the same time of year for its own celebration, partly because of Christian legend having nothing to do with pagan beliefs, and partly because this would upstage the pagan celebrations. That was a tactic often used by the church in the early centuries of Christian history.

 

[Blade]

Why worry what others do on Christ birthday? Yes yes I know its not the real day.. yes yes I know they never had a birthday party for Jesus.. well at least its not written.

Its not what others do ..its what do YOU do?

We know all of heaven rejoiced.. and we know there is not TIME there. So...this doesn't get old.. doesn't go away.. never ends... GOD became man.. died for the worlds sins..WOW awesome!

 

[Oldmantook]

The reason is the historical record. That is what I referred to when saying that the claim which held that the Christian church purposed to take a pagan holiday, rework it, and then present it as its own was in error. Historically speaking--factually speaking--that is not what happened.

What it did was choose the same time of year for its own celebration, partly because of Christian legend having nothing to do with pagan beliefs, and partly because this would upstage the pagan celebrations. That was a tactic often used by the church in the early centuries of Christian history.

You are correct in that the church did not want to upstage the pagan celebrations. However the problem is that it amounts to accommodation instead of being the light in the midst of darkness; allows the leaven to mixed in. That is called sycretism which the Roman Catholic Church is famous for. It results in a tepid church and a watered down gospel. The historical record is that the early church Fathers never celebrated Jesus' birth. The Puritans in New England were against Christmas which resulted in it being banned in Boston from 1659 - 1681 as they considered Christmas as an unholy pagan ritual. Even Charles Spurgeon did not look favorably on celebrating Christmas. Now days both Catholics and Protestants celebrate Christmas despite its pagan roots. You can decorate the tree (pun intended) to look differently, but its roots remain intact.

 

[Albion]

You are correct in that the church did not want to upstage the pagan celebrations.

I said that the church did mean to upstage the pagan celebrations. Or perhaps we should say compete against them.

This, if understood, completely wipes out the theory you expounded about the church supposedly accommodating the pagan celebrations, etc., which if true would mean to do the exact opposite thing.

 

[prodromos]

I also found this meme that I thought I would share since it has a specific verse on it.

View attachment 246607

Does that look like it has been fashioned with a chisel? The Scripture quoted is obviously referring to making idols, not decorating trees.