Modern Day Christmas has turned into a joke.

SAAN

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I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.

Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.

The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.

Merry Christmas will probably offend or get a person almost fired from their job, and a nativity scene is almost pretty much a no now adays.

Christmas trees, Elves, reindeer, a fat man going down your chimney, mistletoe, and yule logs have zero to do with Christ and are all based on Pagan sungod worship, yet many Christians that claim the day is about Jesus for them, all have some or all of these symbols as part of their Christmas celebration.

Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.
 

Shiloh Raven

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If I remember correctly, the first Christians didn't celebrate the birth of Christ and the Pilgrims outlawed celebrating Christmas when they came here. My question is: Is Christmas even an authentic Christian holiday since Jesus wasn't even born in December and there's no bible mandate to celebrate his birth? If I understand correctly, there were some pagan oriented rituals integrated into the Christ Mass by the Catholic Church that are still celebrated today. I haven't really researched that though.
 
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John Bowen

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Santa Claus , Father Christmas are names for Saint Nicholas who was a real historical person , who at times went out at night and gave in secret .Sent five years in prison cause he wouldn't stop being a Christian . and fed the starving poor . Yes people are off track on Christmas turning it into materialism I agree and we need to help people who have forgotten what it is. It started as a pagan holiday the darkest day of the year , when people didn't have all the comforts we have today were starving and there were many suicides and had no hope and has turned into a day celebrating the Light of the world coming into the world Jesus Christ giving people joy .
 
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Dkh587

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Christmas has always been a joke. It’s a pagan holiday, always has been, and always will be

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Messiah of Israel - even for Christians celebrating it as the birth of the Messiah, it’s a vain tradition that’s abominable in the eyes of God
 
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Dave G.

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It's always been a commercialized joke, at least in my 68-1/2 years of life. But that part is what you make it out to be, you don't have to get into it. Christmas to me is found in the prophecy within Isaiah 9 where we see a child is to be born and a son given and He will be called counselor and Mighty God, prince of peace 700 years before the fact. And then it came to be so and the shepherds were afraid but the angel was joined by heavenly host sending praise and they had to go see this miracle. These things can be celebrated 24/7 and 365 days a year, though we do need to take a break to honor the work He did for us. Amen ?

Ya know, and if people want to give gifts, then many will feel good about that. You have to admit if you let it in there is a very certain joy about this season. Don't let it drag you down ( the devil wins then) but while people are more open than some other times of year, look for an opportunity to plant a seed, Jesus would love that and it would be the perfect gift to Him. We don't know His exact fleshly birth date but we know He always was and always will be. There are guesstimates but no official date, it's likely He was a spring man child, but we also know that flocks probably weren't doing a lot of grazing in Dec in that part of the world.
 
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Radagast

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Santa Claus , Father Christmas are names for Saint Nicholas who was a real historical person

And whose feast day is actually before Christmas.

It started as a pagan holiday the darkest day of the year

Well, no, it started as a celebration of the birth of Jesus, with the date chosen to be 9 months after the Annunciation.
 
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JackRT

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A funny thing overheard on the way to the forum

What’s this empire coming to? Now they want us to stop greeting people with "Io Saturnalia!? "We have all these different cultures in Rome" they tell us, "We shouldn’t offend anyone" they tell us, "We’ve got to be inclusive".

We’ve got the barbarians from the north with their tree decorations and their fire rituals. And the weirdos from Gaul, cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle. And the Mithraists, the Zoroastrians, the Isis cults, and, of course, those characters who hang out in the catacombs. "Hail, Winter!" we’re supposed to say. I ask you, what next: we lose the feast? We stop the Solstice parties? No more honoring Ops, goddess of abundance?

I was buying some greenery down by the Forum the other day, and there’s old Macrobius with some Visigoth chick, and she goes, "Gut Jule." And I go, "Hey! In this country, we say, 'Io, Saturnalia' Maybe you should go back to where you came from? "Then Macrobius goes, "She can’t, she’s a slave." Whatever. At this time of year, the Visigoths sacrifice a pig and burn a special log that they dance around, instead of acting like normal people and going to the temple of Saturn.

I swear, I was at this party over at Septima Commodia’s house the other day. She always has a Saturnalia party. Anyway, she decorated the place with prickly green leaves. "It’s holly" she said, "The latest fashion from Brittania. They all do it in Londinium." It gets worse.

She had this statue of some goddess from Ultima Thule or somewhere, name of Frigga, sitting right there on the dining room mensa. I mean, this is darned near blasphemous. I’d be scared about what the lares and penates would do if I put that thing in my house. But Septima Commodia just said, "Oh get over it! We’re cosmopolitan around here." Cosmopolitan. That’s what they call it. Well by Jupiter, I live in Latium. I’m a Roman. And this empire was founded on the principle that the gods, our gods, must be honored at the appropriate time and in the appropriate way. None of this foreign heretical nonsense or these strange customs from Germania or Hibernia or Palestine. I say, "Io, Saturnalia!" and if you don’t like it, you can leave.

Thanks to "Witch" from wondercafe.ca
 
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Not David

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I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.

Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.

The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.

Merry Christmas will probably offend or get a person almost fired from their job, and a nativity scene is almost pretty much a no now adays.

Christmas trees, Elves, reindeer, a fat man going down your chimney, mistletoe, and yule logs have zero to do with Christ and are all based on Pagan sungod worship, yet many Christians that claim the day is about Jesus for them, all have some or all of these symbols as part of their Christmas celebration.

Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.
Speak for yourself, I love celebrating the birth of my Lord.
 
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Tolworth John

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Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

and

John 4: 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”


Yes an unbelieving world sees a time for a party and spend, spend, spend.

Yet it is also a time when we can explain the reason for the season and witness through 'Christian' Christmas cards, invites to caroil services, nativities etc as well as by an example of not spending wildly. Many charities will supply a card saying the 20 I was spending on you has gone to support this need.

Other organised events that you could organise for next year are:-
stage a big re enactment of thenativity, helicopter in the angels, find a flock of sheep for the shepards to look after ( don't know how you'd stop the chopper from scaring them ) find people to fill all the roles and publisies it. How its done in England :- Wintershall

or on a smaller scale this can be done in a building.
A group of churches in my area do this every year to explain what Christmas/Easter really means. They have good contacts with the schools and most school will send a whole year to see the 'Christmas Experience' and later the 'Easter Experience'.

The oppertunities to reach out to people are limited by ones willingness to stand up and say this is what it means.
 
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Strong in Him

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I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.

Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.

The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.

Non Christians, who don't know Jesus or don't want to, may make the season all about Father Christmas, cute snowmen, eating, drinking and getting material stuff. Others don't.

St Nicholas, on whom Father Christmas is based, was a real bishop who secretly gave gifts to the poor. Over the years, this figure has become exaggerated, and the sleigh and flying reindeer added to explain to kids how he manages to get all round the world in one night. Sadly, because the world distorts everything, the message "if you're not good you won't get any presents", or "Santa does not visit bad people", has been added. This is totally in line with the world's teaching that you have to do stuff to earn rewards - and that carries over into "if you do good deeds, you'll get to heaven", or "God will love you if you ......".
It is distorted and wrong teaching. Jesus clearly taught the opposite; that no one can earn God's love and favour and make themselves good enough to get to heaven.

What a shame that St Nicholas' example - give secretly to those who have nothing - is not being promoted. This is, of course, entirely in line with Biblical teaching.
But the world - no doubt fuelled by retailers - only wants the message "you need possessions to make you somebody/improve your life/make you feel worthy and secure." Surprise, huh?
We are told not to conform to the world as we don't belong to it.

There is no reason, though, why we can't celebrate the coming of our Lord, in our own way. If a Christian is doing that then, even if they put up a tree and have many decorations; that's as it should be.
 
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prodromos

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Since the traditional churches have feast and fast days on pretty much every day of the year, it's pretty obvious that some are going to fall on the same days that pagans celebrated one thing or another, but there is nothing of pagan origin in the date chosen or the manner in which Christmas is traditionally celebrated.
 
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Albion

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If I remember correctly, the first Christians didn't celebrate the birth of Christ and the Pilgrims outlawed celebrating Christmas when they came here.

However, Christians of other backgrounds (denominations) certainly did celebrate it...so why should the rest of us conform to the style of the Pilgrims who were, like it or not, considered to be religious extremists in their own day?
 
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Shiloh Raven

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You should really have a read up on Saturnalia because it is a old Roman festival before Christmas and was celebrated at a similar time. Very similar to Christmas.

And also read up Sol Invictus which happens to have a birthday of Dec 25.

I did my own research on the origins of Christmas after reading the comments mentioning the pagan origins. I found a couple of interesting articles that mention the history of Christmas and its origianl pagan origins. A couple of the articles I found are History of Christmas and Pagan Roots? 5 Surprising Facts About Christmas. I'm not including the articles that are from Evangelical Christian based sites because of course these sites would defend celebrating Christmas for dear life and they wouldn't be objective. I also found this meme that I thought I would share since it has a specific verse on it.

do-not-learn-the-ways-of-the-nations-they-cut-9416958.png
 
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Albion

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Any information coming from a Christian source must be set aside as incapable of being objective, but anything from another source which indicts Christianity is automatically to be believed? Something about that seems wrong.
 
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I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.

Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.

The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, ...
Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.

I think you are right mostly. But I think many still give gifts. And that I think is not totally bad and is something I believe God could accept. :)
 
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RDKirk

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The day of death better than the day of birth. -- Ecclesiastes 7

There is probably a reason why we see scripture make far more of commemorating Christ's death than Christ's birth.

Christ did, after all, actually command us to commemorate His death, and we see in Paul's letters that they actually did commemorate His death. That commemoration of His death is even a creedal essential element of faith for Christians.

It's also interesting that scripture gives us enough information --more than one clear witness--to know when in the year His death occurred so that we know the season in which to commemorate it...but there isn't such clear information about when His birth occurred.

And the only celebrations of birth we see in scripture are by unbelievers--and they always result in an innocent being murdered.

Scripturally, the celebration of birthdays don't appear to be a positive thing. Resurrection Day should be a far, far more significant day to Christians than Christmas...which is purely a man-made holiday.
 
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Strong in Him

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[QUOTE="Shiloh Raven, post: 73455909, member: 387249"

View attachment 246607[/QUOTE]

Sorry but that verse has been quoted, out of context, on many anti Christmas threads.
If you bow down and worship your Christmas tree, making an idol of it and giving it more glory than God - fair enough. Otherwise, it's not relevant.
 
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JackRT

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Dionysius Exigius (aka Dennis the Short), a monk from Russia who died about 544, was asked by Pope John I to set out the dates for Easter from the years 527 to 626. It seems that the Pope was keen to produce some order in the celebration of Easter. Dionysius decided to begin with what he considered to be the year of Jesus' birth. He chose the year in which Rome had been founded and determined, from the evidence known to him, that Jesus had been born 753 years later. He did have an error in that because one emperor changed his name during his reign, Dionysius counted him twice.

He was almost certainly acquainted with a suggestion by Hippolytus (170–236) that the date of Jesus' birth was December 25, but the trouble was that Hippolytus had not backed up this claim with sound arguments. Dionysius, however, had just the argument: His contemporaries claimed that God created the earth on March 25. It was inconceivable that the son of God could have been in any way imperfect. Therefore Jesus must have been conceived on March 25. This meant that he must have been born nine months later—December 25. Dionysius also concluded that, as a perfect being, Jesus could not have lived an incomplete life so he must have died on March 25 as well!

December 25 was an auspicious choice. In 274, in Rome, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a civic holiday in celebration of the birth of Mithras, the sun god. By 336, in that same city, Christians countered by celebrating the birth of Jesus, the son of God, on December 25. Christians in Antioch in 375 celebrated the birth of Jesus on January 6. Christians in Alexandria did not begin to celebrate Christmas at all until 430. So until Dionysius came along there was confusion over dates, and debates raged, even over the usefulness of celebrating the birth of Jesus at all. What had been universally important for all Christians—the pre-eminent event—was the celebration of Easter.

When, in 527, he formalized the date of Jesus' birth, Dionysius put Christmas on the map. Jesus was born, he declared, on December 25 in the Roman year 753. Dionysius then suspended time for a few days, declaring January 1, 754—New Year's day in Rome—as the first year in a new era of world history.

With a stroke of ingenuity Dionysius had managed to shift the attention of the church from Easter to Christmas. From this point in time it seemed only logical to celebrate the birth of Jesus before his death. If Jesus' death by crucifixion had made possible salvation for all people everywhere, so the argument went, then his birth was the sign that God was identifying with human kind by taking human form.

But Dionysius made a mistake in his calculations. Perhaps he had never read the gospel account of the birth of Jesus. In Matthew Jesus is said to have been born while Herod was still King (2:1). That would translate into 4 BC (or even earlier) according to the calculations of Dionysius. As a consequence, for Christians the year 2000 is not two thousand years after the birth of Jesus, but more like 2004.

That was not his only mistake. Dionysius followed the convention of his times and, as the Roman calendar moved from the year 753 to 754, he called the latter "year one" of the New World order—anno domini, the year of our Lord. The concept of naught (zero) didn't come into Europe from Arabia and India until about two hundred years later. As a result, centuries end with naught and begin with the digit one. So for us the year 2000 was the end of one millennium but it was not the beginning of the next: that occurred in 2001.

Later, when Pope Gregory tidied up the calendar on 24 February 1582, the calendar lost eleven days. To synchronise the calendar of Dionysius with the movement of the sun, October 4 became October 15, and to avoid having to make further adjustments a leap year was introduced. Pope Gregory must also have known of the mistakes made by Dionysius but all he did was to confirm them, perhaps hoping that no one would notice.

There is one other problem. Bishop Ussher (1581–1656) worked out the precise year of creation as 4004 BC (he knew about Dionysisus getting the date of Jesus birth wrong). But he also advanced the view that the earth had a total life span of six thousand years. In order to come up with this conclusion he based his calculations on all the generations mentioned in the Bible.

In reality we do not know when Jesus was born—neither the year, the month, nor the day. The chronology of our western calendar is based on mythology masquerading as theology. We do well to treat it all with the humour it deserves.

https://www.westarinstitute.org/resources/the-fourth-r/dionysius-exiguus/
 
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I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.

Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.

The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.

Merry Christmas will probably offend or get a person almost fired from their job, and a nativity scene is almost pretty much a no now adays.

Christmas trees, Elves, reindeer, a fat man going down your chimney, mistletoe, and yule logs have zero to do with Christ and are all based on Pagan sungod worship, yet many Christians that claim the day is about Jesus for them, all have some or all of these symbols as part of their Christmas celebration.

Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.
There's nothing preventing you (us) from preparing in advance for a celebration of the Incarnation/Nativity with fasting, prayer, and alms giving. Then once the time has arrived, to worship intently with other believers with Thanksgiving.
 
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