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This can be settled in short order for anyone who cares to hear it. We do not know the date of Christs birth, that's true. Any Christian who is interested in church history knows this and acknowledges it. So we arbitrarily choose a date (and, BTW, some Christian churches choose another one) on which to commemorate or celebrate the event--not to assert that this is for certain the historically correct day.In reality we do not know when Jesus was born—neither the year, the month, nor the day. The chronology of our western calendar is based on mythology masquerading as theology. We do well to treat it all with the humour it deserves.
Sorry but that verse has been quoted, out of context, on many anti Christmas threads.
If you bow down and worship your Christmas tree, making an idol of it and giving it more glory than God - fair enough. Otherwise, it's not relevant.
Heres a question--You should really have a read up on Saturnalia because it is a old Roman festival before Christmas and was celebrated at a similar time. Very similar to Christmas.
And also read up Sol Invictus which happens to have a birthday of Dec 25.
I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.
Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.
The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.
Merry Christmas will probably offend or get a person almost fired from their job, and a nativity scene is almost pretty much a no now adays.
Christmas trees, Elves, reindeer, a fat man going down your chimney, mistletoe, and yule logs have zero to do with Christ and are all based on Pagan sungod worship, yet many Christians that claim the day is about Jesus for them, all have some or all of these symbols as part of their Christmas celebration.
Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.
Heres a question--
October 8 is now declared, in some communities, to be Native Peoples Day (or something like that). It is the same day as we have
known as Columbus Day. Is it a derivative of Columbus Day along with all that he stood for? Is it just the same idea but with a new name?
Or, is it about something else?
And that's the same old excuse I've read in many anti-Christmas threads too.
I was asking for an answer to the questions I posed.It's Indigneous Peoples' Day. And what exactly did Columbus stand for when he never actually stepped foot on the North American continent? I know he stood for slavery and mass murder.
further..You forgot the imaginary infamous 'War on Christmas' when many Christians get all upset that Star Bucks doesn't have 'Merry Christmas' written on their holiday cups and some store employees dare to say 'Happy Holidays!' instead of 'Merry Christmas!' Did you know that there are five other religious holidays that are celebrated in December other than Christmas? I don't mind hearing 'Happy Holidays' because it recognizes the other religious holidays that are celebrated during December too.
Happy Holidays! Celebrating December Holidays Around the World
Yes after all, it is a pagan/occult holy day (holiday) claimed to be redeemed by Christians repackaged as the birth of Christ and therefore participated in. Problem is that throughout Scripture we are repeatedly commanded not to mix pagan practices with following God and not to allow the leaven of sin into our midst. That's what Christmas is. That is like participating in a tarot card session and just changing the name to destiny cards to justify the practice.I dont think many Christians even know what they are truly celebrating on Christmas now.
Its not the birth of Christ, if it is, they are making a total mockery of his birth.
The day has now turned in a commercial retail holiday, in which Santa Claus is greater than Jesus and these same merchants that dont care and probably dont even believe in Jesus have no problem selling Christians all sorts of junk, making them rich, and sending them into debt they will probably be paying off til the next Xmas, and all this sales on on the basis of a lie of Jesus birthday being Dec 25th.
Merry Christmas will probably offend or get a person almost fired from their job, and a nativity scene is almost pretty much a no now adays.
Christmas trees, Elves, reindeer, a fat man going down your chimney, mistletoe, and yule logs have zero to do with Christ and are all based on Pagan sungod worship, yet many Christians that claim the day is about Jesus for them, all have some or all of these symbols as part of their Christmas celebration.
Starting to think God probably hates our modern day Christmas.
Yes after all, it is a pagan/occult holy day (holiday) claimed to be redeemed by Christians repackaged as the birth of Christ and therefore participated in. Problem is that throughout Scripture we are repeatedly commanded not to mix pagan practices with following God and not to allow the leaven of sin into our midst. That's what Christmas is. That is like participating in a tarot card session and just changing the name to destiny cards to justify the practice.
Yes after all, it is a pagan/occult holy day (holiday) claimed to be redeemed by Christians repackaged as the birth of Christ and therefore participated in.
There is quite a bit of evidence that the Christian Church took over existing pagan holidays and relabeled the pagan holidays by reworking them and refashioning them in their image.
Take note that this wording--from your own choice of sources--does not say what you said at the top and does not agree with it.Excerpt from the article: Christmas - New World Encyclopedia
The historical development of Christmas is quite fascinating. According to the Bible, Jesus' birth was celebrated by many well-wishers including the Magi who came bearing gifts. The early Christians in the Roman Empire wished to continue this practice but found that celebrating Jesus' birth was very dangerous under Roman rule, where being a Christian could be punishable by death. Thus, Christians began to celebrate Christ’s birthday on December 25, which was already an important pagan festival, in order to safely adapt to Roman customs while still honoring Jesus' birth.
I agree wholeheartedly.Not so. There is no evidence that the Christian church claimed to have taken over the existing pagan holiday, reworked it, refashioned it, or anything of the sort..
... I would have a tempered agreement. I agree we do not know the exact date and the date chosen could be off.This can be settled in short order for anyone who cares to hear it. We do not know the date of Christs birth, that's true. Any Christian who is interested in church history knows this and acknowledges it. So we arbitrarily choose a date (and, BTW, some Christian churches choose another one) on which to commemorate or celebrate the event--not to assert that this is for certain the historically correct day.
There is an overwhelming abundance of evidence. Is your reply based on any research of your own??Not so. There is no evidence that the Christian church claimed to have taken over the existing pagan holiday, reworked it, refashioned it, or anything of the sort..
The tragic thing is that my last sentence is based on what goes on in "Christian" churches now days; or at least one of them:Well said, especially your last sentence. That's spot on, IMO.
You are correct about that. The day was not pulled out of a hat, as it were. There were reasons for selecting that date, including some that were very much a part of Christian, not pagan, history. So to that extent it was not purely an arbitrary choice. There were and are a number of reasons why another date would might make as much sense as the day chosen by the church, and this is what I was attempting to say. However, I thought it not worth going into such detail in that post.I agree wholeheartedly.
To your earlier comment...
... I would have a tempered agreement. I agree we do not know the exact date and the date chosen could be off.
otoh, the date was not chosen arbitrarily. The Church already celebrated the Annunciation on March 25. The date of the Nativity was assigned 9 months later.
my apologies if I pushed in an unintended direction.You are correct about that. The day was not pulled out of a hat, as it were. There were reasons for selecting that date, including some that were very much a part of Christian, not pagan, history. So to that extent it was not purely an arbitrary choice. There were and are a number of reasons why another date would might make as much sense as the day chosen by the church, and this is what I was attempting to say. However, I thought it not worth going into such detail in that post.
My birthday is celebrated in mid February. I suppose this must mean that my parents chose that day to celebrate my birth because they wanted to associate my birth with the customs of Valentines Day.Heres a question--
October 8 is now declared, in some communities, to be Indigenous Peoples Day. It is the same day we have formerly known as Columbus Day. Is it a derivative of Columbus Day along with all that he stood for? Is it just the same idea but with a new name?
Or, is it about something else?
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