Missing link was a lie

[dad]

dad:


God is a ******* rubbish author then. Remind me not to bother with any other titles he's published.

Nope. He gets er done.

 

[dad]

dad:


Not good enough. You'll have to come up with something more convincing than that.

It is more than good enough.

 

[dad]

The problem is not that he does not accept eyewitnesses, but which eyewitness testimony to accept, and ascertaining whether an account is indeed written by an eyewitness.

I would start with the men He chose! They must be OK. Then His mom, and people He healed, and forgave..etc. He does accept those. So do I. Try it, you might like it.

You are in the worse position of claiming that eyewitness testimony is the best evidence we have, but at the same time you reject a great many eyewitness accounts on the basis that they contradict your opinions.

Oh, reaalllly? Name you best eyewitness, that you think I don't accept!? news to me.

 

[Tomatoman]

dad:

It is more than good enough.

For unquestioning idiots perhaps. Not for anyone with a brain.

 

[dad]

dad:


For unquestioning idiots perhaps. Not for anyone with a brain.

So, you have a brain, unlike other posters...OK. Congrats.

 

[Nostromo]

I would start with the men He chose! They must be OK. Then His mom, and people He healed, and forgave..etc. He does accept those. So do I. Try it, you might like it.

You assume they must be OK. You haven't really stated why that assumption is acceptable.

Oh, reaalllly? Name you best eyewitness, that you think I don't accept!? news to me.

Well, pretty much any scientist seems to be out of favour. You're continually telling us that what they see isn't actually indicative of reality.

Maybe Joseph Smith's eyewitness account of an angel handing him the Book of Mormon?
The elephant headed god Ganesha helped Vyasa write about his exploits in the Mahabharata?
People who claim to have been abducted by aliens.
My account that your posts are full of rubbish.

 

[dad]

But in order to

Well, pretty much any scientist seems to be out of favour. You're continually telling us that what they see isn't actually indicative of reality.

Utter nonsense. What we see is the reality of the present. Anything more is the reality of your wet dreams.

Maybe Joseph Smith's eyewitness account of an angel handing him the Book of Mormon?
The elephant headed god Ganesha helped Vyasa write about his exploits in the Mahabharata?
People who claim to have been abducted by aliens.
My account that your posts are full of rubbish.

Speaking of rubbish, what has any of that got to do with anything we are supposed to be talking about? Or do you care?

 

[Nostromo]

Do you accept their testimony that what they saw is true?

 

[Tomatoman]

dad:

So, you have a brain, unlike other posters...OK. Congrats.

Well, actually, you'll find most posters disagreeing with your posts, thereby demonstrating possession of said organ. This is because treating the old testament as factual history and then making stuff up to make the real world fit in with it strikes most thinking people as idiotic. Strange that.

 

[Tomatoman]

dad:

Anything more is the reality of your wet dreams.

I do believe you are the one who deals in fantasies here.

dad:

Speaking of rubbish, what has any of that got to do with anything we are supposed to be talking about? Or do you care?

Look, if you are really too stupid to understand the point being made, don't blame anyone else.

 

[Nostromo]

In case the intent of my post was not clear, it is in response to this:

Name you best eyewitness, that you think I don't accept!? news to me.

Joseph Smith. Failing that, Antonio Villas Boas.

Is their eyewitness testimony reliable?

 

[Split Rock]

Whether I have a bible case or not, has nothing to do with evolution..? Of course anyone claiming God is a liar, and that He did not create is a liar.

You really don't understand (or pretend to not understand) what a "liar" is, do you? I am not arguing about whether God created, but the mechanism of speciation.

You may as well cite Mother Goose, as scientific literature, when it comes to talking about the future universe! You can't cite any that proves the future or far past was in this state. It is sidelined, something fierce.

I am not talking about the "future universe." You are the one who keeps bring that up! As far as the "far past state" there is every indication that the laws of physics were the same going back to just after the Big Bang.

My claims are based on a more solid foundation that the nothing guesses of present state science. The calendar is set to things spiritual.

You're "solid foundation" is guesswork based on a faulty interpretation of scripture. Hardly "solid."

So sue me. Inspiration is invisible, and required if God wrote the bible. You are in no position whatsoever to say it was not there. Claiming that the future will be different is not interpretation. It is basic belief, and undeniable. Calling in blasphemy is insanity.

If your God is real and will do what you say after you die, then He will deal with your Blasphemy. Be afraid.

They don't know. Of course it also included that. Some extend it to also include languages. Others also to include the separation of the continents. All are fair game here. I simply extend it to something that no one ever realized happened before, the universe state change.

And that extention is where you go wrong.

The future is heaven and hell, and the new heavens and earth. The spiritual is very much included. You must accept that.

I don't have to accept anything "God's Little Echo" and His Lonely Church of One has to say, especially when it conflicts with reality.

 

[BananaSlug]

He's been there, done that. He even got fancy, and showed Himself risen from the dead. Your problem so far, is that you do not accept eyewitnesses.

Susan Smith was considered an eyewitness.

He showed Himself enough on the mount, so that His finger wrote the ten commandments. He showed Himself to Adam and Eve a lot. He appeared in His flying ship to Ezekiel, and some saw Him in the fiery furnace with the Hebrew children. We saw Him at supper, and riding animals, and on boats, and walking, and in the temple.

Exactly. So producing an apple ex nihilo in front of me right now shouldn't be a problem at all.

So don't give us ..'if only we saw a miracle' routine.

Are you saying God is too lazy or doesn't really care about the eternal future of his children?

I think what really came down was that you did not know, did not know. If you wanna compare notes on our educated guesses of some formation, fine. My guess is as good as yours.

So you agree that since pillow lava is formed underwater today, 5,000 year old pillow lava was also formed underwater?

A new heavens is bible 101. Find me any Christian that doesn't believe in that, and I will be surprised. Eden was like that, in so many ways, so one can assume they have a lot of similarities.

Eden was like that until the fall of man. I am talking about the "different state past" you keep blathering on about.

The price has to be paid. I think that is something I need to learn, and mankind in general needs to learn. We need to be a good as our word. If we make a covenant, or agreement, we need to live up to our side of the bargain. God does.

Why does an all loving God require a blood sacrifice as payment? Do you require blood sacrifices from people who wronged you? Or do you follow Christ when he said, "forgive freely and you will be forgiven"?

Maybe some believer has a better answer than I, for that. My understanding is that we will have free will, just like Adam did. Let's hope this giant experiment of a sin world gone mad will be enough to make us want to not go that route again! Jesus was down here Himself, and was tempted in all things like as we are, yet without sin. So He knows the nitty gritty score, there. I wouldn't be surprised if He uses that knowledge, and experience, in helping us...

So we will have the choice to sin in Heaven?

How would I know? I looked into it. I looked at the prophesies fulfilled.

Exodus 33:2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:

Joshua 15:63 As for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not drive them out; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem unto this day.

Deuteronomy 7:24 And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.

Joshua 17:13 Yet it came to pass, when the children of Israel were waxen strong, that they put the Canaanites to tribute, but did not utterly drive them out.

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

I wonder if the people living there today realize they are livng in a ruinous heap?

Matthew 24:32-34 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Does this mean Jesus was a false prophet?

Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Do you want me to provide any other failed prophecies?

I looked at a lot of impacted lives over all time. For every action (impacted life) there has to be an equal an opposite reaction, as well as something that actually does the impacting. Like a crater on the moon, we know something had to do it! For us that are saved, we taste heavenly thing, and gifts, and comfort, and all sorts of things. So we know that we are not talking dreams here.

So is Islam true if its believers feel the same thing as you?

That depends. Maybe there is no reason to assume it was not formed in this state? Depends on the formation. But as far as the strata in general, all they ever used was a same state explanation. It all has to fit that premise.

So do you agree that pillow lava is formed underwater?

Well, there are oodles of verses that talk of things impossible in this state. Like the separation of water from land in creation week.

Is there a specific verse that states the physical laws of the past were different from the physical laws of today? I am assuming there is not, considering you did not/were not able to provide one.

Like the spirit level at the time of Babel, they tried to build up to.

God didn't do too well, considered now we have skyscrapers, airplanes, even the space shuttle.

Like fast plant growth.

Why does "fast plant growth" require a "different state" past? Could God not have done it under present physical laws?

There is a point after the flood, where it talks of the earth being divided. That is where I deduce the big change happened, about a century and change after the flood. The word for divided, can be interpreted 'split'. The new heavens are after the thousand year reign of Christ on earth, after He returns.

Well then I would have to say you are wrong.

36But concerning that day and that hour, no man knows, not the angels of the skies, but the Father alone.
37Just as in the days of Noah, so will the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:36-37

 

[dad]

In case the intent of my post was not clear, it is in response to this:
Joseph Smith. Failing that, Antonio Villas Boas.

Is their eyewitness testimony reliable?

That depends, what they were talking about when...they sure don't set my caledar, or make nations rise and fall!

 

[dad]

Susan Smith was considered an eyewitness.

So wasn't Charles Manson also called to the stand?

Exactly. So producing an apple ex nihilo in front of me right now shouldn't be a problem at all.

Though one rise from the dead, yet will they not believe. He did, and they still did not believe. Miracles probably do not make us believe. An inward change I think does that, after we ask Him in.

I didn't see the Manhatten project, yet I believe they made a bomb.

So you agree that since pillow lava is formed underwater today, 5,000 year old pillow lava was also formed underwater?

No. I agree it may have, dates aside. That depends on the universe state when it formed! You need to know that. Otherwise you look only at how it is now formed, and assume stuff.

Eden was like that until the fall of man. I am talking about the "different state past" you keep blathering on about.

So you can accept a different state Eden, and new heavens and earth coming? You are 85% there, if you do!

Why does an all loving God require a blood sacrifice as payment? Do you require blood sacrifices from people who wronged you? Or do you follow Christ when he said, "forgive freely and you will be forgiven"?

The penalty of sin is death. That means separation from God, basically. That means forever. The price had to be paid. Maybe some other Christian has some answers here..?

So we will have the choice to sin in Heaven?

I doubt there will be sin. There will be no more death... So maybe it will be a thing of the past for us..?

Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

I wonder if the people living there today realize they are livng in a ruinous heap?

I wonder if that is referring to the city after a nuclear explosion or something? It is in a war zone. Point is, that most of the bible is already fulfilled. There are degrees of fulfillment, and there is ultimate fulfillment. Israel will be gather by God to that land also, but just because some jumped the gun, does not mean that prophesy is fulfilled either. Yet.

Matthew 24:32-34 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Does this mean Jesus was a false prophet?

No, it means that the generation that starts to see the stuff really happening will see the end of things.

Do you want me to provide any other failed prophecies?

You can't. They exist only in your head. All you do is demonstrate a lack of depth, and grasp.

So is Islam true if its believers feel the same thing as you?

If they believe that Jesus will save them, of course. God is not partial. Whosoever will, let him come...

So do you agree that pillow lava is formed underwater?

I don't see why not, apparently that is known...no? I agree with what is known. Really.

Is there a specific verse that states the physical laws of the past were different from the physical laws of today? I am assuming there is not, considering you did not/were not able to provide one.

Is there a specific verse that said that Jesus would first come as a man and a child, and then later return to earth as a ruler of all and king? Sort of. But remember, the bible is a living book, and some mysteries are revealed in God's good time. Once we have the key, we can look back, and it all starts to make sense, things, that formerly were a mystery.

God didn't do too well, considered now we have skyscrapers, airplanes, even the space shuttle.

Kid's blocks in comparison to His stuff.

Why does "fast plant growth" require a "different state" past? Could God not have done it under present physical laws?

Look into it. The process of photosynthesis and drawing water and nutrients from the ground, etc seems to take time. I haven't seen then grow an orange tree grove in a week, that produces fruit, have you??

Well then I would have to say you are wrong.

36But concerning that day and that hour, no man knows, not the angels of the skies, but the Father alone.
37Just as in the days of Noah, so will the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:36-37

Right, In other words, advanced sin. Extreme sin. Wickedness. I am not aware that this refers to laws of physics? But, you could have something there Why? Because those days are a certain time, also known as the great tribulation. I notice many things in that period that suggest, indeed that this state may no longer be in place!? Such as men seeking death, but not being able to find it, such as stars falling from the heaven, and spirits among men again, angels, etc etc. So we can certainly look at that.

This stuff is so easy.

 

[dad]

You really don't understand (or pretend to not understand) what a "liar" is, do you? I am not arguing about whether God created, but the mechanism of speciation.

The mechanism..when? Now, or then?? Focus your thoughts here, man.

I am not talking about the "future universe." You are the one who keeps bring that up! As far as the "far past state" there is every indication that the laws of physics were the same going back to just after the Big Bang.

The big bang is a big dream, and has no reality whatsoever to it. The extrapolations of the present laws are merely imagined back, back, way back, before time existed, or the universe was here. Why? For no reason at all, other than they like to cook up same state unproven scenarios that are godless.

You're "solid foundation" is guesswork based on a faulty interpretation of scripture. Hardly "solid."

Nope. The risen body of Jesus was observed. The differences are clear, so clear He could even disappear! You can't, in this physical only body. The calendar is set to this amazing and witnessed fact. You cannot agrue that the future and creationn state in the bible was the same as now. It is obvious that it is impossible for that to be true.

If your God is real and will do what you say after you die, then He will deal with your Blasphemy. Be afraid.

So believing in heaven and creation and the tings said in the bible is a crime to God, in your way of thinking. OK. Relax. He be cool, mon.

I don't have to accept anything "God's Little Echo" and His Lonely Church of One has to say, especially when it conflicts with reality.

I don't have to accept the doubts of the damned of so called science fables, and their incessant echoing of hell static. It extends the present hellish death state into eternity, for no reason, and with no evidence or proof. The bible does not in any way conflict with the present reality. It merely points out that this state is not all there ever was or will be. Science has nothing to say about it. You evidence that, by failing to produce anything.

 

[Spacewyrm]

Nope. God came in and possessed them, more or less. Of course they wanted Him in them. They no more wrote it, than a car drives itself to work! You just were not there to see the driver. So you don't know. Be honest.

God came in and possessed them, huh? I don't think so. Maybe you can tell me where the Bible makes that claim, though?

Perhaps you should pretend you have a bible case, and make like we are discussing it. Otherwise, it is empty blab.

I love it! Being accused of "empty blab" by dad! Great googly moogly, the irony is lethal!

Look into it. The process of photosynthesis and drawing water and nutrients from the ground, etc seems to take time. I haven't seen then grow an orange tree grove in a week, that produces fruit, have you??

Well, there you have it. dad's God is limited by the laws of physics. I think I'd rather worship an omnipotent God, not one who needs to bother with Universe state-changes to get the job done.

The big bang is a big dream, and has no reality whatsoever to it. The extrapolations of the present laws are merely imagined back, back, way back, before time existed, or the universe was here. Why? For no reason at all, other than they like to cook up same state unproven scenarios that are godless.

Yes, of course. That must be why there are tons of scientists who are Christians, who beleive that the big bang occured, that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, &c. Those Christian scientists just love cooking up godless scenarios.

 

[dad]

God came in and possessed them, huh? I don't think so. Maybe you can tell me where the Bible makes that claim, though?

2Ti 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Pe 1:21 -For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. That means that the holy ghost was right in there moving them.

Well, there you have it. dad's God is limited by the laws of physics. I think I'd rather worship an omnipotent God, not one who needs to bother with Universe state-changes to get the job done.

The only job a temporal state does, that I can gather, is provide a prison state for ultra wicked man. Before the big change, remember, they used to live a thousand years. If the laws were different, then they also could have affected the kinds, and creatures in a terrible way. They also likely could build a lot better, as in tossing around the giant blocks that made the pyramids, like cheese cake piles. So man had to be greatly slowed down in the damage he could do.

In the final time of wicked man's rule, of course, he again will be at the critical wickedness melt down point, and need to be stopped, once and for all.

Yes, of course. That must be why there are tons of scientists who are Christians, who beleive that the big bang occured, that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, &c. Those Christian scientists just love cooking up godless scenarios.

That depends. real science doesn't deal outside the box of the present. If any Christians are messing in dark dreams, falsely called science, why, tough tippy for them.

 

[Split Rock]

The mechanism..when? Now, or then?? Focus your thoughts here, man.

Natural mechanisms don't change (except in your fantasy)

The big bang is a big dream, and has no reality whatsoever to it. The extrapolations of the present laws are merely imagined back, back, way back, before time existed, or the universe was here. Why? For no reason at all, other than they like to cook up same state unproven scenarios that are godless.

Science has nothing to do with being "godless."

Nope. The risen body of Jesus was observed. The differences are clear, so clear He could even disappear! You can't, in this physical only body. The calendar is set to this amazing and witnessed fact. You cannot agrue that the future and creationn state in the bible was the same as now. It is obvious that it is impossible for that to be true.

Not obvious at all. The Resurrection has nothing to do with dadology.... focus.

So believing in heaven and creation and the tings said in the bible is a crime to God, in your way of thinking. OK. Relax. He be cool, mon.

Not at all. Stop putting words in my mouth. It is dadology that is nonsense. Or is your ego so very large that you conflate dadology with Christianity?

I don't have to accept the doubts of the damned of so called science fables, and their incessant echoing of hell static. It extends the present hellish death state into eternity, for no reason, and with no evidence or proof.

Whatever are you talking about? Hell static??

The bible does not in any way conflict with the present reality. It merely points out that this state is not all there ever was or will be.

It is dadology that conflicts with the Bible. Nor does the Bible point to any "different state."

Science has nothing to say about it. You evidence that, by failing to produce anything.

Of course science has nothing to say about the theology of The Bible. You are the one claiming the Bible has something to say about science, but in reality it is just your twisted interpretation of the Bible that conflicts with science.

 

[dad]

Natural mechanisms don't change (except in your fantasy)

Natural depends on the nature of the day.

Science has nothing to do with being "godless."

Yes, it leaves Him out.

Not obvious at all. The Resurrection has nothing to do with dadology.... focus.

The risen body of Christ has to do with the eternal state, and the merged reality of the spiritual and physical. That's what it's all about.

Whatever are you talking about? Hell static??

The hissing noises that are unpleasant, and seek to drown out reason and truth.

.. Nor does the Bible point to any "different state."

A Journey of Discovery - Home

This site has a document that gives the lie to that claim.

Of course science has nothing to say about the theology of The Bible. You are the one claiming the Bible has something to say about science, but in reality it is just your twisted interpretation of the Bible that conflicts with science.

Nope. Nothing conflicts with actual science as I see it in the bible. Science, in it's weak little way agrees the best it knows how!