Misogyny is disgusting

[OldWiseGuy]

No, it's not. We need to be able to recognise the sinful aspect to our attitudes, especially when they are so harmful.



I wouldn't know. Most of my interaction with Americans is on CF, and the problem is definitely alive and well here.



So what? Are you suggesting we should simply accept it?

God doesn't accept it, as stated in the scripture. But let's find out why there is this attitude. Biblically it goes way back, to the time of Lucifer. Eve was cut from the same cloth. The attitude can be found throughout all ages, and in all parts of the world.

 

[Paidiske]

Just realised you are a fellow Aussie! Hope you aren't being affected by the bushfires!

I'm in Melbourne, so no fires near me. But yesterday the wind was from that direction and turned the sky red, and we could smell the burning.

 

[Paidiske]

God doesn't accept it, as stated in the scripture. But let's find out why there is this attitude. Biblically it goes way back, to the time of Lucifer.

Okay. So we agree that misogyny, and the patriarchy and entitlement which fuel it, are sinful? That's more than I dared hope for.

What, then, would it take for men to repent of it?

 

[Kylie]

You don't know?

No I don't. You see, when a man starts expressing anger towards me, I don't feel inclined to start psychoanalysing him to find out why he's doing it. For some reason, I start thinking of all the women who have met their deaths at the hands of violent men and start feeling very unsafe and I start looking for a way to get out of there and/or defend myself if I need to.

Men also fight for higher pay.

But men have never had to fight to the same pay for the same work.

Can't you accept both?

Not when they are contradictory.

Sure there's misogyny. Let's find out why.

Plenty of people in this thread have said why. Religious teachings (however misguided you may think they are), toxic masculinity leaving men with no coping mechanisms other than violence...

 

[Kylie]

I'm in Melbourne, so no fires near me. But yesterday the wind was from that direction and turned the sky red, and we could smell the burning.

I'm in Sydney, almost surrounded by fires here. It's been so smokey, and I've been using a mask to help me breathe.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm in Sydney, almost surrounded by fires here. It's been so smokey, and I've been using a mask to help me breathe.

It's truly frightening, and we're not yet through December.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Okay. So we agree that misogyny, and the patriarchy and entitlement which fuel it, are sinful? That's more than I dared hope for.

What, then, would it take for men to repent of it?

I don't agree that patriarchy fostered it. I believe misogyny is more of a backlash against women. Patriarchy is the natural order established by God.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't agree that patriarchy fostered it. I believe misogyny is more of a backlash against women.

And why the backlash? For challenging patriarchy? Patriarchy is definitely part of the picture.

 

[Kylie]

I don't agree that patriarchy fostered it. I believe misogyny is more of a backlash against women. Patriarchy is the natural order established by God.

A backlash against women? Why? Could it be because women are growing dissatisfied with the "Serve and obey your husbands" thing the Bible says?

I mean, what is it about men that makes them naturally superior to women?

 

[muichimotsu]

The bible contains deeper levels of truth than most understand.

That's easy to say when you're already convinced that it's true, it's not demonstration in the slightest

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No I don't. You see, when a man starts expressing anger towards me, I don't feel inclined to start psychoanalysing him to find out why he's doing it. For some reason, I start thinking of all the women who have met their deaths at the hands of violent men and start feeling very unsafe and I start looking for a way to get out of there and/or defend myself if I need to.

Thanks for the admission.

But men have never had to fight to the same pay for the same work.

Men general accept that they must achieve longevity in order to get a pay raise, even while doing the same work as others who have seniority and earn more.

Plenty of people in this thread have said why. Religious teachings (however misguided you may think they are), toxic masculinity leaving men with no coping mechanisms other than violence...

That's what it's come to, but how do we deal with it. My wife dealt with me by divorcing me. Perhaps mass divorces and placing the women in protective custody?

 

[muichimotsu]

A backlash against women? Why? Could it be because women are growing dissatisfied with the "Serve and obey your husbands" thing the Bible says?

I mean, what is it about men that makes them naturally superior to women?

If you take the bible unquestionably literally, then I suppose the first being made in God's image apparently has priority, to say nothing of Eve being made from Adam's rib, so the whole "patriarchy is God's plan" makes "perfect" sense if you already assume the Bible is reliable and not based in a particular worldview that demeans women because they were bronze age goat herders

 

[Paidiske]

Better marriage preparation - emphasising mutuality and equality - might be a start...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A backlash against women? Why? Could it be because women are growing dissatisfied with the "Serve and obey your husbands" thing the Bible says?

Actually that's part of it.

I mean, what is it about men that makes them naturally superior to women?

I don't think most men think that way. Freer and more entitled maybe but not superior.

 

[muichimotsu]

That's a whole different topic.



I didn't hear a thing about it from the Dems debate last evening.



Perhaps a bible verse will help.

Colossians 3:19 King James Version (KJV)

"Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them."

Why would husbands be bitter towards their wives?

Why would either spouse be bitter towards the other except that we can be flawed and take things for granted? And for your specific example, apparently because women are second class citizens who are expected to be domestics and never have any capacity beyond serving men (totally not demeaning or anything/sarc) according to the Bible? They'd be bitter because they expect to be in charge

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's easy to say when you're already convinced that it's true, it's not demonstration in the slightest

You have to walk in my shoes.

 

[muichimotsu]

You have to walk in my shoes.

Yeah, I'm not playing this existentialist subjective relativist game, you don't get to pull that non-argument, basically a thought terminating cliche.

I don't have to walk in your shoes to see some consistent patterns that you're thoroughly indoctrinated and are convinced you have evidence, but ignore anything to the contrary, because of cognitive bias due to the indoctrination or otherwise lack of critical thinking skills

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why would either spouse be bitter towards the other except that we can be flawed and take things for granted? And for your specific example, apparently because women are second class citizens who are expected to be domestics and never have any capacity beyond serving men (totally not demeaning or anything/sarc) according to the Bible? They'd be bitter because they expect to be in charge

Read Proverbs 31. Many women today have these qualities, authority, and great responsibility. And I doubt if she was obsessed with her beauty.

 

[muichimotsu]

Actually that's part of it.



I don't think most men think that way. Freer and more entitled maybe but not superior.

Entitlement is not necessarily an innately positive thing when you apply it as a default. And freedom in a Christian position is hardly a good thing by default if you're just free to sin, one would think you'd know better than to use those terms loaded with secular baggage

 

[muichimotsu]

Read Proverbs 31. Many women today have these qualities, authority, and great responsibility. And I doubt if she was obsessed with her beauty.

Yeah, because stereotyping women as being superficial is totally showing that you respect them rather than expecting idealistic archetypes that are just compartmentalizing women to avoid the stuff you don't want to admit is threatening your dominance as a man (I'm not threatened by women as a man, not sure why you'd be except that you can't even acknowledge the privileged status you have as a man in a patriarchal system)