Misconceptions

[New_Wineskin]

Simon Jesus said that if we are to be His disciple we are to pick up our cross and follow Him. To follow Jesus also means that we are to do the will of God, works are demanded of us by God. Our works are a response to our faith, so yes, I would say that if we do not do the will of God, then we will not be saved. Our faith is to be alive, not dead, if we have faith then we want to do what God asks of us, and that includes works.

God Bless you,
Nancy

If this is true , then there would be no reason to say it or write it . There would be no threads on it . Works come naturally through faith . If works come as a result of the reading or listening to the Law or catechism or doctrine , it is dead because it is not faith in the Lord - it is faith in the Law , catechism , or doctrine . It shows that no faith ( in the Lord ) is there in the first place .

 

[Catholic Christian]

If this is true , then there would be no reason to say it or write it . There would be no threads on it . Works come naturally through faith .

Work does not come naturally through faith. When a person becomes a Christian, God does not attach a set of puppet strings to him. God gives grace, but it is up to us to resopond to that grace, and that is an act of the will - a "work".

 

[CathNancy]

The desire to do good works comes from God's grace, without grace I know that I am selfish. It is only through grace that I truly wish to do God's will with no benefit to me. I do not boast of anything that I may do that is good because it all comes from God and His grace. Nor am I saved by my works because I can not do anything of merit without grace.

God Bless,
Nancy

 

[simonthezealot]

It's a process in which Christ's righteousness becomes a part of us..we are changed into His likeness. The EO call this 'theosis'. We don't make much of a distinction between justification and sanctification. We're "born again" through baptism, and pass from death to life..then, theosis begins.

This happens by faith (which includes both belief and works done out of love), and the Sacraments.

It's all about grace in the end. all by the blood of Jesus.

peace

monica

So part of the basis of your salvation is in the works you do?

works are demanded of us by God. Our works are a response to our faith, so yes, I would say that if we do not do the will of God, then we will not be saved.

So you can see how we see your salvation as workss based, your showing a lack of faith by deeming what YOU can do as being effectual on your salvation....

 

[Thekla]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

is that work ?

 

[Catholic Christian]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

is that work ?

ZIINNNGGGGGG

 

[Rhamiel]

we all have to respond to the grace of God, we can not do anything without Him, we can do nothing good without Him

 

[simonthezealot]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

is that work ?

Sure it is, but Christ came to fulfill the law...If following your assertion here is any indication it seems you don't believe that He did come to fulfill it.

 

[Thekla]

Sure it is, but Christ came to fulfill the law...If following your assertion here is any indication it seems you don't believe that He did come to fulfill it.

I quoted Christ.

 

[Thekla]

Sure it is, but Christ came to fulfill the law...If following your assertion here is any indication it seems you don't believe that He did come to fulfill it.

note:

threw (translated keep) is spoken by Christ in the aorist imperative:

the aorist tense has no Engl. equivalent -- the closest description would be to say it encompasses past, present and future. the imperative is a command)

 

[simonthezealot]

I quoted Christ.

So I don't misquote or misaunderstand you, what was your point of quoting Christ? I assumed you were asserting that this had an impact on our salvation, was I wrong to do so?

 

[Thekla]

So I don't misquote or misaunderstand you, what was your point of quoting Christ? I assumed you were asserting that this had an impact on our salvation, was I wrong to do so?

# 71

 

[simonthezealot]

note:

threw (translated keep) is spoken by Christ in the aorist imperative:

the aorist tense has no Engl. equivalent -- the closest description would be to say it encompasses past, present and future. the imperative is a command)

# 71

Please clarify...Your post has sailed WAY over my head...

 

[Thekla]

Please clarify...Your post has sailed WAY over my head...

when Christ says "keep my commandments" the word translated as "keep" is in a verb tense that means always -- past present future/forever. And its a command, not a request. It could be translated:

"have kept, do keep, will keep" there is no English verb tense like this.

hope this makes sense

 

[simonthezealot]

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

when Christ says "keep my commandments" the word translated as "keep" is in a verb tense that means always -- past present future/forever. And its a command, not a request. It could be translated:

"have kept, do keep, will keep" there is no English verb tense like this.

hope this makes sense

What I find most lacking in english translations is "consistency" in how different forms of either a greek or hebrew word is used in the Bible and why I am studying on it myself to help harmonzied the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation to the read of both the OC and NC.

This interlinear has been invaluable to me, especially with the Hebrew and wonder if others have used it and what they think about it. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 10:23 "Whenever yet they may be chasing/persecuting/diwkwsin <1377> (5725) ye in the city, this, be fleeing/feugete <5343> (5720) into the other.
For Amen I am saying to ye, not no ye should be finishing the cities of the Israel till ever may be coming/elqh <2064> (5632) the Son of the Man".

Reve 12:13 And when perceived, the Dragon that it was casted into the land, it chases/pursues/ediwxen <1377> (5656) the woman who-any brought forth the male.
17 And is wroth, the Dragon, upon the woman, and came-away to do battle with the remnant of the seed of her, of the ones keeping the commandments of the God and having the witness of Jesus.

 

[simonthezealot]

4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.
8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

When the Bible talks about the 'law' it's not talking about good works done out of faith and love for God...it's talking about the Old Testament Law.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

So? Catholics and Orthodox believe this too...."this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe"..yes, we agree that we can't be saved without faith! No one believes in salvation without faith. The point I'm trying to make though is that "this righteousness" becomes a PART OF US by faith...it's not just attributed to us, but transforms us...into people God wants in His Kingdom.

And yes, we all believe that we're "justified freely by His grace.." you see, even our good works are a result of grace. It's God working in us. We can't do anything on our own. And yes, we receive this grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Think of the Sacraments...that's grace right there! we dont deserve forgiveness or the Body and Blood of Christ...or cleansing through baptism....yet it's all given to us freely as a gift...

I don't really see what the problem is...

peace

monica

 

[Thekla]

faith means "trust"

(my Greek grandfather was repeatedly emphatic on that one )


it is a word that shows relationship !

under the OT, we were measured by the Law, but even the righteous were in sheol. The Law could not resurrect the dead.

but He who died on the tree (he that is hung on a tree is cursed Gal 3:13) was free of sin. Christ was fully God, fully man. Death cannot hold God; He resurrected and broke the bonds of death for us.

the commandments are given throughout the NT; turn the other cheek, forgive 70 times 7, visit those in prison, the path of the beatitudes, repent, be following, take up our cross...

these commandments we are to keep