Misconceptions about Protestants

[PilgrimToChrist]

Does "obediance to myself" mean I'm conscientious or selfish?
I'll obey me if I'm not just ordering me around to assert my authority over me, but if I tell myself to do something against my conscience, I'll politely tell myself where to get off & I might even give myself a warning not to try something like that again or I'll be someone I'd not like to meet in a dark alley.

Perhaps but I've said before on here that "conscience is not an infallible Jiminy Cricket". Conscience is just an application of the intellect to a morally significant situation. We have to have our consciences formed by the Church. For example, we are taught that adultery is wrong but if we're in an actual situation, we have to decide if what we are doing constitutes adultery -- this is where conscience comes in. If people have malformed consciences, they will have their own morality. There must be an external authority to teach us, otherwise we just end up in the morass of moral relativism like the rest of the modern world.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

A friend who used to be a Roman Catholic thought they we never took Holy Communion.

Define "Holy Communion".

 

[razeontherock]

Conscience is just an application of the intellect

This is what RC teaches? Seriously?

And then the example you use of "we need the church to form our conscience." WOW did you ever not think that one through

Left yourself W-I-D-E open to the sola scriptura-ists

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

This is what RC teaches? Seriously?

Properly speaking, conscience is not a power [of the intellect], but an act. This is evident both from the very name and from those things which in the common way of speaking are attributed to conscience. For conscience, according to the very nature of the word, implies the relation of knowledge to something: for conscience may be resolved into "cum alio scientia," i.e. knowledge applied to an individual case. But the application of knowledge to something is done by some act. Wherefore from this explanation of the name it is clear that conscience is an act.

The same is manifest from those things which are attributed to conscience. For conscience is said to witness, to bind, or incite, and also to accuse, torment, or rebuke. And all these follow the application of knowledge or science to what we do: which application is made in three ways. One way in so far as we recognize that we have done or not done something; "Thy conscience knoweth that thou hast often spoken evil of others" (Ecclesiastes 7:23), and according to this, conscience is said to witness. In another way, so far as through the conscience we judge that something should be done or not done; and in this sense, conscience is said to incite or to bind. In the third way, so far as by conscience we judge that something done is well done or ill done, and in this sense conscience is said to excuse, accuse, or torment. Now, it is clear that all these things follow the actual application of knowledge to what we do. Wherefore, properly speaking, conscience denominates an act. But since habit is a principle of act, sometimes the name conscience is given to the first natural habit--namely, "synderesis": thus Jerome calls "synderesis" conscience (Gloss. Ezekiel 1:6); Basil [Hom. in princ. Proverb.], the "natural power of judgment," and Damascene [De Fide Orth. iv. 22 says that it is the "law of our intellect." For it is customary for causes and effects to be called after one another.

How would you define "conscience"?

And then the example you use of "we need the church to form our conscience." WOW did you ever not think that one through

We need the first principles in order to apply those principles to the real world.

Left yourself W-I-D-E open to the sola scriptura-ists

To do what?

 

[razeontherock]

How would you define "conscience"?

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Clearly this occurs in our conscience, but is NOT "an act of our intellect."

Feel free to take your theology back to the ol' drawing board.

To do what?

You unnecessarily left the sola Scriptura-ists free to point out that adultery being wrong does NOT need any church to "form our conscience." The Word alone is ample for that.

 

[laconicstudent]

Only on GT could a thread about Protestantism get turned into a thread on the supposed failings of the RCC so fast.

 

[Lively Stone]

We here so much about "Protestant misconceptions". How about some misconceptions about Protestants? I'll go first.

We were discussing dueterocanical (sp?) books today in religion and my teacher was explaining that Protestants reject them or put them in the apocrypha. *girl raises hand* "Don't they take out verses in the New Testament too? Like where Jesus talks about the bread of life?" ME= FACEPALM Fortunately he corrected her, but still.

Who else has heard some crazy things about us Protestants?

We eat our young.

 

[razeontherock]

Only on GT could a thread about Protestantism get turned into a thread on the supposed failings of the RCC so fast.

Misconceptions about Protestants is one of THE primary failings of RC. Who else would so such a thing?

 

[laconicstudent]

Misconceptions about Protestants is one of THE primary failings of RC. Who else would so such a thing?

So this is just another thread for the purpose of complaining about Roman Catholicism? I will admit, the guise of the OP is novel.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

And where does it equate the Holy Ghost with an individual's conscience?

So when people say "Well, I don't feel this is wrong." or "My conscience doesn't tell me to do that." they are saying that God is telling one person one thing and another person another thing and that we are just supposed to go with whatever we feel is right or wrong and not based on any objective standard?

You unnecessarily left the sola Scriptura-ists free to point out that adultery being wrong does NOT need any church to "form our conscience." The Word alone is ample for that.

Well, actually we can know that adultery is wrong from Natural Law without even the Bible. That was just one example of the movement from a moral principle to its application in the real world -- i.e. conscience.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Only on GT could a thread about Protestantism get turned into a thread on the supposed failings of the RCC so fast.

Isn't that the definition of Protestantism -- a "protest" against the Catholic Church? What else ties all these groups together except not being Catholic?

 

[razeontherock]

And where does it equate the Holy Ghost with an individual's conscience?

It doesn't, and the suggestion is blasphemy. I'm really not sure how you're failing to understand.

Well, actually we can know that adultery is wrong from Natural Law without even the Bible.

Previously you said we need "the church," presumably your church - to do that. What's your story now?

 

[razeontherock]

Protestants don't hold any sort of obedience to anyone but themselves with regards to any teach on faith, morals or any other practice.

2nd misconception listed in this thread

Lemme guess: what you don't understand, villainize?

 

[laconicstudent]

Isn't that the definition of Protestantism -- a "protest" against the Catholic Church? What else ties all these groups together except not being Catholic?

Not being EO, OO or Assyrian Church of the East?

 

[razeontherock]

Protestants have no central definition of Sola Scriptura to which they can all adhere.

True! Which is another misconception - that all do. I've never heard it used outside of a RC using it ...

whyzzat?

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

How would you define "conscience"?

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Clearly this occurs in our conscience, but is NOT "an act of our intellect."

And where does it equate the Holy Ghost with an individual's conscience?

So when people say "Well, I don't feel this is wrong." or "My conscience doesn't tell me to do that." they are saying that God is telling one person one thing and another person another thing and that we are just supposed to go with whatever we feel is right or wrong and not based on any objective standard?

It doesn't, and the suggestion is blasphemy. I'm really not sure how you're failing to understand.

Does anyone else understand this?

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Not being EO, OO or Assyrian Church of the East?

But it was the Western Catholic Church which they split off of, not one of the schismatic Eastern Churches.

 

[razeontherock]

What defines the Mormon religion as a "cult" and the Baptist religion as not a "cult"?

Who they say Jesus is.

Then blame the inability of your mother and your CCD teacher to teach you the faith, not the Church.

Ok, so RC says her Mom and that CCD teacher are NOT part of "the church."

Got it.

Who else is ex-communicated?

 

[razeontherock]

Does anyone else understand this?

Try reading it in context as I wrote it, not the way you butchered it.

 

[razeontherock]

What else ties all these groups together except not being Catholic?

Love of G-d? Reaching out to the lost?

Just a thought.