Miracles in the Qur'an

[elwill]

Why didn't Allah just protect the Jewish scriptures from corruption rather then waiting till the 7th century to do so-so there wouldn't be all this confusion on which monotheistic religion is the correct one?

if you ask me about my personal openion , so i can say that God sent each prophet with special miracle to be witness for him . usually this miracle related to somthing the people of this prophet are clever with .
for example , the miracle of mosas (pbuh) was related to the magic , because the egyptions were clever with magic , so they can realize the miracle
jesus(pbuh) his miracle was related to medical science because his people were clever in this type of science .
the same with our prophet , the people were cleaver in poetry and strong language , so his miracles was a book (quran) .
whaever , quran are reserved by God because there are no more prophets after mohammed (pbuh) , so people will not have excuses in hereafter

 

[Osiris]

Why didn't Allah just protect the Jewish scriptures from corruption rather then waiting till the 7th century to do so-so there wouldn't be all this confusion on which monotheistic religion is the correct one?

Same question I've asked before... it's as though as if God makes mistakes.

Scripture 1.0 (Torah)
Scripture 2.0 (Bible) translation software included,
Scripture 3.0 (Quran) with corruption protection.

I think declaring that the God sent previous versions and that this one he protected from corruption, doesn't really help with making this God believable. In fact, this argument sounds more like a childish argument in my opinion.

 

[ChildishFears]

51:47
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

051.047

YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

I'm not sure where these translations talks about the Universe currently expanding?



within internal structure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth#Surface

I was looking through it and I don't see anything about 7 layers of earth.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Earth-crust-cutaway-english.svg

I can't put up the image but you click that link-doesn't show 7 layers.

You will see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past like clouds-the handiwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 27:88)​

YUSUFALI: Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.

I think this may be a misrepresentation of the verse....I *think* it's talking how everything will eventually pass away [the mountains, clouds, people,etc], basically everything will cease to exist. I don't think it has anything to do with the earth's rotation. A similar verse.

018.047
YUSUFALI: One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.
PICKTHAL: And (bethink you of) the Day when we remove the hills and ye see the earth emerging, and We gather them together so as to leave not one of them behind.
SHAKIR: And the day on which We will cause the mountains to pass away and you will see the earth a levelled plain and We will gather them and leave not any one of them behind.

The above verse emphasises that the Earth not only rotates but that it also has a direction of rotation. The direction of movement of the main cloud masses at 3,500-4,000 metres high is always from West to East. That is why it is generally the state of the weather in the West which is looked at in meteorological forecasts.


The main reason why cloud masses are pulled from West to East is the direction in which the Earth rotates. As we now know, our Earth spins from West to East.

This scientific fact, only recently established by science, was revealed 1,400 years ago in the Qur’an, at a time when the Earth was believed to be flat, and to be resting on the back of an ox.

I think there's WAY too much reading into these verses.


but the bible said it's flat as i remember .
whatever , let us firstly see what quran said about the shape of earth

[079:030] He made the earth egg-shaped
[079:031] From it, He produced its own water and pasture.
[079:032] He established the mountains.
[079:033] All this to provide life support for you and your animals.​

Linguistic evidence to the "dahu" (egg-shapping) of the Earth
The "dahu" in the Arabic Language means to extend and even out. It is said: "daha" the thing; "yad'hu dahwan". These terms can mean he either evened out and extended it or he threw it and rolled it. It is also said: "the rain daha the stones from the face of the earth," which means it rolled it and washed it away. It is also said: "The horse passed by yad'hu dahwan," which means he is beating his foot on the ground and yad'hu its sand. Also, the ostrich's mad'hi means its laying of its eggs, and "ad'hiha" is the nest where its chicks are born.
End of translation.
So as we clearly see, all of the above Arabic words that are derived from "daha" mean:
1- To extend.
2- To roll.
3- To even out.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs

All of these meanings perfectly apply to our planet Earth and the stages that it went through!

That still doesn't address that the idea of a spherical earth was already known before Islam. Not to mention the earth is not egg-shaped.
Here's a response from Islamtoday.com

Due to the fact that the word conveys the meaning of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out”, the Arabs named the place where an ostrich incubates and hatches its egg an "udhiyy". This is a hollow pit in the ground around 30 to 60 centimeters deep. The Arabic word for this shallow depression is derived from the triliteral root d-h-w – the same etymological root as the verb dahâ. The reason for this is that the ostrich spreads out and flattens this area with its legs before laying its egg in it. The ostrich uses neither a nest nor a burrow for its eggs.

From this, we must understand that the word is not used for the egg itself but rather for the flattened depression where the ostrich deposits its egg.

Whoever uses the word to refer to the egg or to the shape of the egg is being inexact in his linguistic usage. However, without doubt we can say that such an error does not detract from the person’s reputation or scholarship as a whole, and it does not warrant a harsh reprimand.

The Earth is practically a perfect sphere., the Earth is ever so slightly flattened at the poles, due to its rotation, technically making it an approximate "oblate spheroid", a rounded shape with a sight bulge at the equator.

However, the difference made by the bulge is minute. The diameter at the equator is only 42.72 kilometers greater than the diameter at the poles. Considering that the average diameter of the Earth is about 12,742 km, the difference is infinitesimal – nothing at all like the shape of an ostrich egg, which is visibly an oval. The average ostrich egg is 15 cm long and 13 cm wide.

Therefore, the claim that the Earth is shaped like an ostrich egg is not only unfounded scripturally, it is scientifically inaccurate

http://islamtoday.net/english/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=1084&main_cat_id=31

 

[ChildishFears]

Same question I've asked before... it's as though as if God makes mistakes.

Scripture 1.0 (Torah)
Scripture 2.0 (Bible) translation software included,
Scripture 3.0 (Quran) with corruption protection.

I think declaring that the God sent previous versions and that this one he protected from corruption, doesn't really help with making this God believable. In fact, this argument sounds more like a childish argument in my opinion.

I agree, you would think God would make sure His first set of scriptures were never corrupted by human hands.

 

[ChildishFears]

if you ask me about my personal openion , so i can say that God sent each prophet with special miracle to be witness for him . usually this miracle related to somthing the people of this prophet are clever with .
for example , the miracle of mosas (pbuh) was related to the magic , because the egyptions were clever with magic , so they can realize the miracle
jesus(pbuh) his miracle was related to medical science because his people were clever in this type of science .
the same with our prophet , the people were cleaver in poetry and strong language , so his miracles was a book (quran) .
whaever , quran are reserved by God because there are no more prophets after mohammed (pbuh) , so people will not have excuses in hereafter

Still doesn't mean that God couldn't protect the first set of scriptures from corruption

 

[Secundulus]

I agree, you would think God would make sure His first set of scriptures were never corrupted by human hands.

Just to be clear, Christianity does not make a claim that the Jewish scriptures are corrupt.

 

[ChildishFears]

Just to be clear, Christianity does not make a claim that the Jewish scriptures are corrupt.

Yes you're right

 

[randomman]

But what I DO find amazing, is that the Qu'ran at least gives a challenge. Other religions just say to blindly follow.. Islam at least has a challenge! Of course, I still do not find that miraculous, as anyone could make a challenge. I just appreciate the fact that it has a challenge and does not call for blind faith

and so far, no one has really won the challenge

i would not call them miracles either. i perfer to say that they are signs and wounders to sway the heart towards believing in God for the believer/seeker. the real miracle and challenge of Quran is immitating it. and this challeng is clearly mentioned. as for the other science and wisdom and such, they are just signs, wounders, and things to reflect upon and question our existence, our actions, our faith.

 

[Secundulus]

and so far, no one has really won the challenge

What challenge are you all talking about?

 

[randomman]

What challenge are you all talking about?

here is a pathetic attempt to accept the challenge and win it .... really pathetic .... definitely sounds like it is not God who is communicating ... that a person is pretending to speak on behalf of God .... like the bible

http://www.islam-exposed.org/

 

[Adeeb]

Why didn't Allah just protect the Jewish scriptures from corruption rather then waiting till the 7th century to do so-so there wouldn't be all this confusion on which monotheistic religion is the correct one?

1) those scriptures were not meant to last, they were for specific people in specific places at specific times. Allah chose to leave the protection of these books to their own people since it was meant only for a short
time period and for certain people.

2) This served as a lesson for community of Muhammad SAW to hold the Quran in high respect since he has promised to protect it himself, as opposed to other books.

 

[Secundulus]

here is a pathetic attempt to accept the challenge and win it .... really pathetic .... definitely sounds like it is not God who is communicating ... that a person is pretending to speak on behalf of God .... like the bible

http://www.islam-exposed.org/

I guess its too much to ask around here to get a straight answer to an honest question.

 

[ChildishFears]

1) those scriptures were not meant to last, they were for specific people in specific places at specific times. Allah chose to leave the protection of these books to their own people since it was meant only for a short
time period and for certain people.

2) This served as a lesson for community of Muhammad SAW to hold the Quran in high respect since he has promised to protect it himself, as opposed to other books.

Why would God allow choose that course of action knowing that it would be corrupt?
Why isn't the Qur'an for a specific time and place?
How is the Christian scriptures for a specific people if it embraces everyone?
So Allah has no hand in protecting the Qur'an from corruption?

 

[Adeeb]

Why would God allow choose that course of action knowing that it would be corrupt?

This is his will. Allah does what he wills and there is wisdom behind everything he does even if we cannot comprehend it.

Why isn't the Qur'an for a specific time and place?

Quran is the final revelation of many revelations given to many prophets. Since it is the final one and there will be none afterwards it must be sufficient till the end of time, which it will be. Not a single letter has changed in 1400 years nor will it ever change. The Prophet Muhammad SAW was sent to all mankind, thus the book revealed to him is a guide for all of mankind. Also the Quran abrogates all previous revelations.

How is the Christian scriptures for a specific people if it embraces everyone?

We believe that the Injeel (Gospel) was sent only to the Jews. Jesus was a prophet sent to re guide the Jews who went astray. He was not sent for everyone.

So Allah has no hand in protecting the Qur'an from corruption?

Allah has promised that he will protect the Quran.

"Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 15, Verse 9

 

[Secundulus]

We believe that the Injeel (Gospel) was sent only to the Jews. Jesus was a prophet sent to re guide the Jews who went astray. He was not sent for everyone.

Jesus contradicts this. But of course you will simply say the Jewish and Christian scriptures are corrupt wherever they disagree with Muhammed.

" After saying this, Jesus raised his eyes to heaven and said: Father, the hour has come: glorify your Son so that your Son may glorify you; so that, just as you have given him power over all humanity, he may give eternal life to all those you have entrusted to him." (John 17:1-2, NJB)

 

[Adeeb]

Jesus contradicts this. But of course you will simply say the Jewish and Christian scriptures are corrupt wherever they disagree with Muhammed.

" After saying this, Jesus raised his eyes to heaven and said: Father, the hour has come: glorify your Son so that your Son may glorify you; so that, just as you have given him power over all humanity, he may give eternal life to all those you have entrusted to him." (John 17:1-2, NJB)

Abu Huraryrah reported that the Jews used to read the Tawrah in Hebrew and then explain it in the Arabic to
the Muslims. The Prophet warned, “Do not believe the People of the Book and do not disbelieve in
them. Just say to them, ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you.”

There are 3 types of text in these books:
1. Text that Allah or the Prophet acknowledged
2. Text that Allah or the Prophet rejected
3. Text that Allah and the Prophet didn’t mention anything about

In the first two cases, it is clear what our position on these types of texts should be. In the third case the above
Hadith tells us what we should do. We do not reject it nor do we incorporate it as part of Islam.

Ibn Al-Qayyim specifies five kinds of ‘Tahreef’, or changes, that crept into the Books:
1. Part of the text was lost;
2. Additions were made;
3. Incorrect translation;
4. Meaning was changed or interpreted incorrectly, and;
5. Words and phrases were substituted for others

 

[Secundulus]

Abu Huraryrah reported that the Jews used to read the Tawrah in Hebrew and then explain it in the Arabic to
the Muslims. The Prophet warned, “Do not believe the People of the Book and do not disbelieve in
them. Just say to them, ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you.”

There are 3 types of text in these books:
1. Text that Allah or the Prophet acknowledged
2. Text that Allah or the Prophet rejected
3. Text that Allah and the Prophet didn’t mention anything about

In the first two cases, it is clear what our position on these types of texts should be. In the third case the above
Hadith tells us what we should do. We do not reject it nor do we incorporate it as part of Islam.

Ibn Al-Qayyim specifies five kinds of ‘Tahreef’, or changes, that crept into the Books:
1. Part of the text was lost;
2. Additions were made;
3. Incorrect translation;
4. Meaning was changed or interpreted incorrectly, and;
5. Words and phrases were substituted for others

Of course you really don't have any evidence of any of this.

 

[ChildishFears]

This is his will. Allah does what he wills and there is wisdom behind everything he does even if we cannot comprehend it.

You believe there is wisdom behind allowing scriptures to get fully corrupted and allowing them to be deeply ingrained into the culture so you end up with billions of followers that truly believe in them? So now there's constant conflict and bloodshed over what is correct and what isn't. And supposedly those that don't believe in the validity of the Qur'an [because God decided to wait centuries before making a new scripture which states that thousands of year worth of written scripture is corrupted and this late scripture is the only correct version.] will be in Hellfire...

Quran is the final revelation of many revelations given to many prophets. Since it is the final one and there will be none afterwards it must be sufficient till the end of time, which it will be. Not a single letter has changed in 1400 years nor will it ever change. The Prophet Muhammad SAW was sent to all mankind, thus the book revealed to him is a guide for all of mankind. Also the Quran abrogates all previous revelations.

How do you know that a single letter wasn't change? When was the earliest Qur'an written down?

We believe that the Injeel (Gospel) was sent only to the Jews. Jesus was a prophet sent to re guide the Jews who went astray. He was not sent for everyone.

It doesn't make sense that God would allow the Injeel to magically disappear, because if it was recovered sometime, showing the validity of the Qur'an's claim about Jesus..then I imagine there would be more converts. Also who wrote this Injeel?

Allah has promised that he will protect the Quran.

"Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 15, Verse 9

[/QUOTE]

So Allah only knows why he allowed all this confusion to take place...okay.

 

[elwill]

That still doesn't address that the idea of a spherical earth was already known before Islam.

so , it made me think , is our illeteral arab prophet(pbuh) was interesting in science of greek culture?

Not to mention the earth is not egg-shaped.
Here's a response from Islamtoday.com

the site not cantradit with my interpretation .
the word 'daha' is arabic verb which used in arabic language with four points i stated above
1- To extend.
2- To roll.
3- To even out.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs

so the translation of 'daha' not egg_shape , i agree
but arab use this verb with reforming somthing to the egg_shaped
so that muslims interpret it with english word describe meaning of this word

 

[elwill]

Jesus contradicts this. But of course you will simply say the Jewish and Christian scriptures are corrupt wherever they disagree with Muhammed.

no , we will not

" After saying this, Jesus raised his eyes to heaven and said: Father, the hour has come: glorify your Son so that your Son may glorify you; so that, just as you have given him power over all humanity, he may give eternal life to all those you have entrusted to him." (John 17:1-2, NJB)

where is the universal massage of jesus (pbuh) in this verse ?
jesus pray for his people (who believed) . that's all i see .

what about these verses ?



in Matthew 10:5-6, Jesus gave explicit instructions to his disciples to whom they should preach his message, by commanding

“Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”​

Then he said to the woman, "I was sent only to help the people of Israel--God's lost sheep--not the Gentiles." - Matthew 15:24​

In Matthew 1:21, we read that

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS, for he shall save his people from their sins.”​

​

When the other disciples heard that Peter was preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles, they were upset with him.

“And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him. Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.” (Acts 11:1 - 3)​

Jesus’(P) closest disciples do not agree that it is correct to preach the to the Gentiles. This is evident when we read in Acts 11:19 that

“Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.”​

In Mark 6:4, it is stated that Jesus(P) referred to himself as a prophet to the Jews:

“And Jesus said to them, ‘A prophet is not without honour, except in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.’” (also read Matthew 13:57, Luke 4:24 and John 4:43).​

​