Miracles Cannot Violate Natural Law

[Jay Follett]

So, no, I am not your proof that it is all in my mind. Asking me to prove that it is not in my mind is not proof that it is. Please try again.

Have you any idea where your God is then? could you give me a clue? if you can't then I'll go with the default, your mind.

 

[JacksBratt]

Where else in all honesty could your God be? if he wasn't in your mind you wouldn't even know about your God, would you?

So, if God is not in my mind, He doesn't exist? That is pathetic philosophy.

I found Christ in the written word. I guess I should say I read the written word and on faith chose to believe it, got on my knees and accepted that I was a sinner and was given the gift of salvation. Now I see evidence of God in all things from a morning sunrise to a full moon on a calm lake with loons in the background or the smell of fresh cut hay on a humid summer morning. OR the innocent "I love you daddy from one of my kids, out of the blue for no apparent reason.....

do you only believe because no one can show that your God doesn't exist? do you also believe in all the other Gods for the same reason?

Do you NOT believe in God only because no one can show Him to you?

I also believe in giant flying spaghetti monsters because no one can show me that they don't exist too?
Do you know how many quadrillion things I would have to believe in if I believed only based on the fact that these things could not be dis proven?

Your philosophy is puzzling.

BTW. no one else shares your beliefs because they all have their own beliefs, and like you their own Gods.

Well, I go to about 4 different churches and they are based on four different denominations of Gospel preaching churches and there are many many people that share my beliefs. There are millions of people just like us too. Sorry but you should not make statements that you know nothing about.

 

[Jay Follett]

Please forget I even asked you any questions and believe whatever you want to believe, it's was never my intensions to upset you.

 

[Jay Follett]

There are millions of people just like us too. Sorry but you should not make statements that you know nothing about.

There are also millions of Muslims who say they all believe the same thing, they are all as convinced as you are that they know their God.

 

[JacksBratt]

Have you any idea where your God is then? could you give me a clue? if you can't then I'll go with the default, your mind.

Ya, just go with that..... the default "in my your mind" with no proof and no way to prove it. If your happy, go ahead.

My God exists in three parts, God, the father is in heaven which is in another dimension than ours. Christ, His son is, at this time, sitting on a throne at God the father's right hand. The Holy Spirit or "the One who comforts" indwells me the same way demons take over humans when they are possessed. I asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my heart, and He is there. Not as forceful as demons are at all, nor in anyway have I lost my free will. I am in control but I get nudgings, suggestions in my mind that are impossible to be my own. I get guilt, when making poor choices, joy at other times. Peace in times of loss. Anyway, there is no way to describe it to you any more than someone can describe to you the feeling they get sky jumping when they jump out of the plane. Or what a mother feels for her new born child when described to a person who has never gave birth.

It is impossible for you to understand because it is designed that way. If everyone could see and understand it, believers and non believers then everyone would be a believer. God only wants the souls that truly trust His word and accept by faith, without "evidence" to be with Him in eternity. This ensures that He has given salvation to those that truly love Him and understand His sacrifice and accept His gift of salvation.

He would love for all of mankind from Adam to the last soul born to be saved but only if they truly , unconditionally love and trust him.

Kinda like if a guy came up to you and said "Hey, sign over your house, your cars, all your earthly possessions to me and get in my car. I will take you across town and give you a mansion, 5 million dollars and a villa in Spain. But you, first have to sign here...."
Who would take that chance? Not me. But if one of my good friends did, then came back and told me its the real deal, then everyone would take the deal. With God, you take the deal now or when you die, it's too late.
Thing is, with God's deal, you lose nothing, there is no risk, there is no gamble.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are also millions of Muslims who say they all believe the same thing, they are all as convinced as you are that they know their God.

Why do you confuse things???

Your original comment was that "BTW. no one else shares your beliefs because they all have their own beliefs, and like you their own Gods."

To this I said that there are many who believe as I do. Now you add that there are other religions? Is this supposed to be news to me?

It's like saying Where do you live? And I say Canada and you respond, Well other people live in China so there......... What the heck!!!! You're going to hurt my brain.

 

[JacksBratt]

Please forget I even asked you any questions and believe whatever you want to believe, it's was never my intensions to upset you.

Thank you so much for giving me the permission to believe what I want to believe. Guess what, I was going to anyway. Have a nice day.

 

[Jay Follett]

I found Christ in the written word. I guess I should say I read the written word and on faith chose to believe it, got on my knees and accepted that I was a sinner and was given the gift of salvation. Now I see evidence of God in all things from a morning sunrise to a full moon on a calm lake with loons in the background or the smell of fresh cut hay on a humid summer morning. OR the innocent "I love you daddy from one of my kids,

Do you see evidence of God in a children's hospital where children are dying of cancer? or a child dying every 15 seconds of hunger somewhere in the world? how about floods washing away homes and killing people and destroying lives in catastrophic earthquakes? or do you not think that's God doing that?

 

[Jay Follett]

Why do you confuse things???

I'm confused because you are not making any sense.

Thank you so much for giving me the permission to believe what I want to believe. Guess what, I was going to anyway. Have a nice day.

I thought I might have been upsetting you asking so many questions.
I try to have a nice day every day because every day is precious to me, unlike you this life is all I have.

 

[AV1611VET]

How many religions claim to worship a God?

Who cares?

The more that claim it, the more atheists are "odd man out."

But I'll simplify it for you and make the odds more in your favor.

Let's just talk about Christianity, and all the evidence for Jesus Christ.

 

[Jay Follett]

Ya, just go with that..... the default "in my your mind" with no proof and no way to prove it. If your happy, go ahead.

I have no choice but to go with what makes the most sense.

My God exists in three parts, God, the father is in heaven which is in another dimension than ours. Christ, His son is, at this time, sitting on a throne at God the father's right hand. The Holy Spirit or "the One who comforts" indwells me the same way demons take over humans when they are possessed. I asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my heart, and He is there. Not as forceful as demons are at all, nor in anyway have I lost my free will. I am in control but I get nudgings, suggestions in my mind that are impossible to be my own. I get guilt, when making poor choices, joy at other times. Peace in times of loss. Anyway, there is no way to describe it to you any more than someone can describe to you the feeling they get sky jumping when they jump out of the plane. Or what a mother feels for her new born child when described to a person who has never gave birth.

I can read the words but they make no sense to me, I have dozens of feelings about a lot of things but I don't put them down to a supernatural entity.

It is impossible for you to understand because it is designed that way.

That's a cop out, doesn't your God want as many souls in heaven with him? why would he allow some to see and others not to see?

If everyone could see and understand it, believers and non believers then everyone would be a believer. God only wants the souls that truly trust His word and accept by faith, without "evidence" to be with Him in eternity. This ensures that He has given salvation to those that truly love Him and understand His sacrifice and accept His gift of salvation.

Are you saying that your God does not want the people he made to use the brains he gave us? you have twisted things around to say that no evidence is all the evidence you need to confirm to you that there is a God, if your God gave people evidence everyone would believe and that would be all too easy, I suppose your wife telling you she hates you really means she loves you.

He would love for all of mankind from Adam to the last soul born to be saved but only if they truly , unconditionally love and trust him.

I don't think you would like it because it would mean you were not special if everyone could have it.
Religion is nothing but an ego trip, "the maker of the universe loves me and want's to take care of me", believers become someone instead of just being one of billions and billions who are born and die day after day after day, a non-entity.

Kinda like if a guy came up to you and said "Hey, sign over your house, your cars, all your earthly possessions to me and get in my car. I will take you across town and give you a mansion, 5 million dollars and a villa in Spain. But you, first have to sign here...."
Who would take that chance? Not me. But if one of my good friends did, then came back and told me its the real deal, then everyone would take the deal. With God, you take the deal now or when you die, it's too late.
Thing is, with God's deal, you lose nothing, there is no risk, there is no gamble.

That's Pascal's wager, just in case there's a God it's best you believe, no, if there really is a God he would know that you really don't believe and you are just hedging your bets.
If I die and I'm standing in front of the God of the Bible I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing I am a better and more moral person than he/it could ever be, giving me a brain then expecting me not to use it, thank you but no thanks.

 

[Jay Follett]

Let's just talk about Christianity, and all the evidence for Jesus Christ.

Yes let's, what have you got? the NT is the only place Jesus is ever mentioned, outside of that Jesus did not exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes let's, what have you got?

14

 

[DeepWater]

God does not exist within the confines or the boundaries of "natural" time.
He exists outside of this dimension, and because He created time and its beginning and end, he can operate within it or without it., as the Author can always do what he will with the creation at any time.
WE, as God's Spiritual creations are created to exist within time, or the boundary of time, as we (our spiritual selves) exit within natural bodies that function within the boundaries set by the One who created both time and our natural earthen bodies to operate our short lifetime within it.
At anytime, God, as a Supernatural agent can not only co-exist within or without time and make changes and adjustments, but He can also end it at any time.

A miracle is the setting aside of the natural occurrences (lower natural law) that operate and define time, by the manifestation of Supernatural occurrences (Supernal Spiritual Realm deeds) within time by the very One who created ad controls time.

Simply put, a miracle is a Supernatural change of circumstance within the natural realm, that is caused by God who is Supernatural and can do it.

 

[Xalith]

Have you any idea where your God is then? could you give me a clue? if you can't then I'll go with the default, your mind.

I know where my God is.

He's inside of me. (The indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
He's always at my right hand (many Psalms) in the form of Christ.
He's sitting on the Throne in Heaven (The Lord's Prayer: "O Father, who art in heaven...").

I know exactly where my God is.

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you see evidence of God in a children's hospital where children are dying of cancer? or a child dying every 15 seconds of hunger somewhere in the world? how about floods washing away homes and killing people and destroying lives in catastrophic earthquakes? or do you not think that's God doing that?

That is the result of the sin in the world. God's plan was not for these events. These are the exact events that have come about due to Eve listening to Satan when he said she would know everything and be like God and ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Read the judgement that God gave to Adam and Eve as direct result of the fall.

To a believer, dying is not a punishment or a terrible event. It is terribly sad and creates a lot of grief for the ones they leave behind, however, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Unless you are beyond your age of ability to stand responsible for your actions, children automatically go to heaven. That is a glorious place to be. Taken from this world to paradise. Then, the parents will someday be reunited with their child in paradise when they die.
If, however, you refuse Christs gift, this world is only a glimmer of the torment you will face.

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm confused because you are not making any sense.

I thought I might have been upsetting you asking so many questions.
I try to have a nice day every day because every day is precious to me, unlike you this life is all I have.

Well, that is easily changed. God would be ecstatic if you were to believe, accept His son's gift of salvation and be guaranteed eternal life. Each day on this earth is a precious gift from God, to me, as well. But, death is not the end.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have no choice but to go with what makes the most sense.

Well, if believing that it's all in my head makes the most sense to you, so be it.

I can read the words but they make no sense to me, I have dozens of feelings about a lot of things but I don't put them down to a supernatural entity.

I have dozens of feelings about a lot of things too, that are my own and in no way shape or form from a supernatural entity. However, when they come, there is no possible way that the thought or feeling came from my own mind.

That's a cop out, doesn't your God want as many souls in heaven with him? why would he allow some to see and others not to see?Are you saying that your God does not want the people he made to use the brains he gave us?

You still don't get it. God wants everyone to be saved. He allows everyone to see, if they want to. You chose to be blind. All you have to do is ask to see. It's your stubbornness to not believe in something beyond the explainable. It's your pride in your intelligence. You need to be humble, and understand that your intelligence is finite, earthly and limited by the laws of this dimension. When you do that and have faith in things beyond your dismal wisdom, then you will see.

God only wants those who accept Him by faith. I just don't know any other way to put it.

You don't want every Tom Dick and Harry coming to your daughters wedding for the food and open bar. You only want those who share your love and caring for your daughter, her new husband and the life they are setting out to live. So, you invite the ones you consider worthy. If they RSVP you set a plate for them. God did this and you refuse to RSVP so ..... NO SOUP FOR YOU.

you have twisted things around to say that no evidence is all the evidence you need to confirm to you that there is a God,

Not quite. The word of God is all the evidence I need. Accepting it means I get the proof.

if your God gave people evidence everyone would believe and that would be all too easy,

Not too easy, it would just bring every Tom Dick and Harry in to the wedding.

I suppose your wife telling you she hates you really means she loves you.I don't think you would like it because it would mean you were not special if everyone could have it.

Well I don't know, but it's raining on the dryer just stopped on my poodle and it's much faster to travel by train than by New Jersey................What the heck are you talking about.

Religion is nothing but an ego trip, "the maker of the universe loves me and want's to take care of me", believers become someone instead of just being one of billions and billions who are born and die day after day after day, a non-entity.That's Pascal's wager, just in case there's a God it's best you believe, no, if there really is a God he would know that you really don't believe and you are just hedging your bets.

Ah, there you go. You nailed it. Satan has you all educated now. "Religion is nothing more than an ego trip" This is perfect Satan 101.

First, a relationship with Christ IS NOT religion. Religion is going to the temple saying the same prayer, killing a pigeon, waving some smoke around, not working on Sunday, saying a few hail Mary's, and on and on...

Christ came to show them that they were wrong and they heard Him loud and clear. So they killed Him. Then, the vale that separated man from God was ripped from top to bottom. The phone line, now is direct. I talk, He hears me.

Christ wants a relationship. Not repeated actions and monotonous words. Religion is do do do do. With Christ it is already done. Just accept it.

Second, a relationship with Christ is not an ego trip. This is what Satan wants you to believe. A relationship with Christ is the ultimate in humbling. You must come, heart in hand, head hung, admitting your insignificance and undeserving of His gift of salvation.

Does that sound like an ego trip?

If I die and I'm standing in front of the God of the Bible I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing I am a better and more moral person than he/it could ever be, giving me a brain then expecting me not to use it, thank you but no thanks.

When you stand in front of God you are going to think like that, huh? Me thinks you will fall prostrate to the ground, lose all bodily function control and shake like a human being. And, in that moment of time it will be mind=blown.
You will have the satisfaction of actually being one on one with your creator though, as He looks right through your "I am a better moral person than He" and into you trembling heart. Then He will say:

Matthew 25:41New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


But, have it your way.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes let's, what have you got? the NT is the only place Jesus is ever mentioned, outside of that Jesus did not exist.

Oh man, I am sorry but you have so much to learn.

Have you never heard, "In the old testament Christ concealed, In the New Christ revealed"?

There are so many parallels to Christ in the OT it is astonishing. The whole Passover is a lesson in Christ. Joseph and the coat of many colors.

I'm sorry but this is a whole semester of study. Just believe me when I say that the OT is ALL about Christ, foreshadowing and parallel teachings. While the NT is Christ coming and fulfilling the OT.

 

[Jay Follett]

When you stand in front of God you are going to think like that, huh? Me thinks you will fall prostrate to the ground, lose all bodily function control and shake like a human being. And, in that moment of time it will be mind=blown.

Well it's good to know that even though I'm dead you think I will still have my mind and my body.

You will have the satisfaction of actually being one on one with your creator though, as He looks right through your "I am a better moral person than He" and into you trembling heart.

You really do live in a dream world don't you?