Millennial Considerations

[Truth7t7]

Actually scripture uses the word in relationship to the spiritual resurrection in Revelation 20.

They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The "First Resurrection" seen in Revelation 20:5 will take place on the last day, with all the righteous that will obtain the immortal glorified body, John 6:40

There will be "Two Resurrections" on the last day, "First" the righteous to eternal life, "Second" the wicked to eternal damnation.

The righteous are blessed to be in the "First" resurrection, on such the "Second Death" has no power over them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Dave you teach of three groups in the eternal state, This is the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory.

You can deny you believe it, but you sure are teaching it

Matthew 25:31-46

1.) Sheep/Righteous

2.) Goats/Intermediate State

3.) Wicked/Satanist, Witches, Atheist

Only in your mind. Can't be teaching something I don't believe, that's ludicrous. I am pretty much anti-Catholic. I don't have anything against Catholics personally though, just their unbiblical doctrines. Which BTW, Amil is apparently one of their main doctrines.

 

[Davy]

If I'm not mistaken, don't you too place the thousand years after the 2nd coming? If yes, and that the rest of the dead are raised at the 2nd coming, where do the rest of the dead hang out during the thousand years? If they are not still in their graves, and that none of them are yet in the lake of fire, where are they then, meaning physically?

Yes, the thousand years begins at His second coming.

Firstly, OT prophecy speaks of some souls (like the kings, might men, etc.) gathered and shut up in the prison pit with Satan and God visiting them later (Isaiah 24:20-23).

After Jesus returns, the concept of flesh death is over. That means the idea of flesh death cannot be applied to the "dead" of Rev.20:5, but only the same concept of spiritual death which Jesus showed us in His parables about men alive on earth but inside are dead men's bones (Matt.23:27).

One's soul being spiritually dead is much more worse than flesh dead, because everyone will be raised from the dead to face judgment. It's the condition of the soul that matters, and those "dead" of Rev.20 mean dead souls, not dead bodies in the ground.

John 5:28-29 means exactly as it's written, both... resurrection types occur at the same time of Jesus' 2nd coming. And the nations without Christ still alive at His coming are also changed at the twinkling of eye, the veil of this flesh age removed for everyone, which is from Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up. It means the nations without Christ will be in the spiritual body too. There is not going to be one group in resurrection bodies walking around on earth while another group is still in their flesh bodies. And Rev.5 does declare Christ's elect will reign "on the earth", which is what Rev.22:14-15 is showing also.

 

[Davy]

Jesus Christ Taught in Matthew 25:31-46 That At His Second Coming, The Final Judgment, Eternal Life, Eternal Kingdom Takes Place.

"No Earthly Millennial Kingdom Of 1000 Years To Follow".

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns wth the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 the righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

Eternity Has Started, For Ever And Ever

I'm not going to argue with your belief that God's Eternity begins at Christ's coming. I do not believe that. I recognize the "thousand years" period of Christ's reign with His elect over the nations which must happen first, as written in Rev.20.

 

[Davy]

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in the eternal kingdom as seen in Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5, same tree and river of life.

Anyone eating from the tree of life will live eternally Genesis 3:22-24

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in any part of the glory found in the eternal kingdom.

The Revelation 22:14-15 events is Millennium timing, the timing of Ezekiel 40-47. The wicked are shown outside... the gates of the holy city in Rev.22.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus Christ Taught in Matthew 25:31-46 That At His Second Coming, The Final Judgment, Eternal Life, Eternal Kingdom Takes Place.

"No Earthly Millennial Kingdom Of 1000 Years To Follow".

Matthew 25:31-46

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns wth the angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

Verse 46 the righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

Eternity Has Started, For Ever And Ever

Jesus Christ will dissolve this earth by fire at his return as a "Thief In The Night" 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 24:20, Nahum 1:5, 1 Corinthians 3:13

Yes, the thousand years begins at His second coming.

Firstly, OT prophecy speaks of some souls (like the kings, might men, etc.) gathered and shut up in the prison pit with Satan and God visiting them later (Isaiah 24:20-23).

After Jesus returns, the concept of flesh death is over. That means the idea of flesh death cannot be applied to the "dead" of Rev.20:5, but only the same concept of spiritual death which Jesus showed us in His parables about men alive on earth but inside are dead men's bones (Matt.23:27).

One's soul being spiritually dead is much more worse than flesh dead, because everyone will be raised from the dead to face judgment. It's the condition of the soul that matters, and those "dead" of Rev.20 mean dead souls, not dead bodies in the ground.

John 5:28-29 means exactly as it's written, both... resurrection types occur at the same time of Jesus' 2nd coming. And the nations without Christ still alive at His coming are also changed at the twinkling of eye, the veil of this flesh age removed for everyone, which is from Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up. It means the nations without Christ will be in the spiritual body too. There is not going to be one group in resurrection bodies walking around on earth while another group is still in their flesh bodies. And Rev.5 does declare Christ's elect will reign "on the earth", which is what Rev.22:14-15 is showing also.

 

[DavidPT]

Actually scripture uses the word in relationship to the spiritual resurrection in Revelation 20.

They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

To come to life after having been physically dead clearly means to live again. No one needs to do that twice. The text in Revelation 20:4 indicates they are physically dead first, then live and reign with Christ a thousand years, which then is said to be the first resurrection. Why are you then teaching unbiblical things, such as souls being spiritually resurrected in heaven after they had already physically died? Where does one find anything like that in Scriptures?

 

[Truth7t7]

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 is the very same eternal kingdom, with the same river and tree of life, that produces fruit every month, and leaves are for healing.

Its your private interpretation that says they are different places and time, "They Are The Same Place And Time" Eternity.............

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in the eternal kingdom as seen in Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5, same tree and river of life.

Anyone eating from the tree of life will live eternally Genesis 3:22-24

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in any part of the glory found in the eternal kingdom.

The Revelation 22:14-15 events is Millennium timing, the timing of Ezekiel 40-47. The wicked are shown outside... the gates of the holy city in Rev.22.

 

[BABerean2]

When you can reasonably explain to me how on earth atheists, witches, satan worshipers, so on and so on, too, answer Jesus like indicated per verse 44, maybe then I might reconsider things.

I had friend that I worked with who had taught Sunday-School at his church for many years.
When a fellow friend's mother died I drove both of us to the funeral home about an hour away.
During that ride he said some things to me about the Bible being written hundreds of years after the events at Calvary.
During the weeks that followed I shared some things which revealed the truth.

Some months later he came and let me know that he had become a believer.

Sadly, modern churches are filled with people who are not "born again" believers.
Many are there like my friend who had been at a particular church because that was were his family attended.

There are also athiests who promote the idea of a "Social Gospel" of helping the poor.


You also seem to not recognize that there are two different groups in Matthew 25:31-46.


Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

.......................................................................................................

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Good works alone does not get anyone into heaven, is part of the message of Matthew 25:41-46.
There is also the fact that what they say they did and what Christ said they did are not the same.
Therefore, those humans in this passage cannot be speaking the truth.

.

 

[Davy]

The terms "day of the Lord" when He returns "as a thief", connect the following passages and reveals the timing of the event.

In the first passage below the words "But" and "we" and "sleep" show that chapter 4 is connected to chapter 5. The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is revealed at the beginning of chapter 5.

I have weighed those Scriptures heavily in my Bible studies over many years, so I'm well familiar that Paul was giving timing in 1 Thess.5 of the 1 Thess.4 events. He just didn't include mention of the "thousand years" of Rev.20, though he understood it must occur first:

1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

If Paul hadn't have said that "For He must reign, till..." your interpretation would be right that the new heavens and new earth happens at Christ's coming. But the fact that Paul said Jesus must reign first, that points directly to Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

[DavidPT]

Dave you teach of three groups in the eternal state, This is the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory.

You can deny you believe it, but you sure are teaching it

Matthew 25:31-46

1.) Sheep/Righteous

2.) Goats/Intermediate State

3.) Wicked/Satanist, Witches, Atheist

So when are you actually going to take on post #489 and show me how all of the unsaved would answer Jesus the way the goats answer Him in verse 44 of Matthew 25? If you don't have the capability to do that, then just admit it at least. You are basically trying to paint me in this bad light rather than actually dealing with anything I submitted. That way it makes it appear to others that you are the one correct here rather than me. I really like you, I like you a lot, regardless we don't see eye to eye on some things. So I was kind of hoping you were a bit above some of these tactics you are using on me.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Revelation 22:14-15 events is Millennium timing, the timing of Ezekiel 40-47. The wicked are shown outside... the gates of the holy city in Rev.22.

You state the wicked will be outside the gate in the eternal kingdom, Revelation 22:15?

Your 100% correct, as Isaiah 66:24 clearly teaches, they will be burning outside the gates in the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"!

 

[Davy]

Rev 5 doesn't say anything about the thousand years, does it? I believe that to be a reference to the new earth because Rev 22 tells us that the righteous will reign on the new earth.

There's more weight behind Rev.5 timing being the "thousand years" because Rev.20 directly says Christ's elect will reign with Him for a thousand years. Can't get any more direct than that.

I don't know why you think I'm confused about the spiritual body.

A third resurrection? During the thousand years? I think you're making this far too complicated.

No 3rd resurrection, but a 2nd resurrection like unto the "first resurrection". The first resurrection of Rev.20 is unto Eternal Life in Christ Jesus. It is the "resurrection of life" of John 5. The 2nd resurrection is not one of the wicked dead in the ground being raised at the end of the thousand years that many think. The 2nd resurrection is another... one to Eternal Life in Christ Jesus. It happens for all those of the nations that choose Christ during the thousand years. But those must be tested by Satan first.

I don't think we really know, or can really understand, what the second death is. It's a bit of a mystery. All I know is, I don't want it.

You're right. The spiritual body does not mean automatic salvation.

We're told the "second death" is the casting into the "lake of fire". My understanding is a death type for the spiritual body and soul, because at the judgment is when the angels of Jude will be executed, their heavenly body with soul being destroyed in the lake of fire. That is how Satan will be destroyed also, a fire burning him up, turning him to ashes upon the earth when he comes up against the "camp of the saints" (see also Ezek.28:18).

 

[seventysevens]

It means the nations without Christ will be in the spiritual body too. There is not going to be one group in resurrection bodies walking around on earth while another group is still in their flesh bodies.

There is nothing in the text about those who are without Christ receiving a glorified body as the body that is corruptible is without Christ only those with Christ get the incorruptible body

what scripture shows those without Christ get an incorruptible body?
1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 is the very same eternal kingdom, with the same river and tree of life, that produces fruit every month, and leaves are for healing.

Its your private interpretation that says they are different places and time, "They Are The Same Place And Time" Eternity.............

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in the eternal kingdom as seen in Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5, same tree and river of life.

Anyone eating from the tree of life will live eternally Genesis 3:22-24

The unjust/wicked will not be partaking in any part of the glory found in the eternal kingdom.

i think you need to read that Rev.22:14-15 Scripture again. And maybe the Ezek.44 chapter also, since it's Millennium timing also.

 

[BABerean2]

If Paul hadn't have said that "For He must reign, till..." your interpretation would be right that the new heavens and new earth happens at Christ's coming.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Based on Acts 2:36 Christ was already both Lord (ruler) and Christ (Messiah) on the Day of Pentecost.



Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

His work was finished at the Cross.
We serve the one who has already won the victory.

.

 

[LastSeven]

1. Christ's return: both just and the unjust resurrected to a spiritual body on that day. Everyone on earth... are changed to the spiritual body on that day. Christ's elect who will reign with Him are the "first resurrection" and never subject to the "second death".

Are you saying that the resurrection of both the just and the unjust is the first resurrection? How is that possible when that resurrection takes place on "the last day"?

3. Jesus and His elect reign over the resurrected nations on earth. That's right. No one is in a flesh body any longer. But there's still dead souls of the unjust present.

When Jesus comes, death is swallowed up in victory and he hands over the kingdom to God the father. (1 Cor 15). Therefore his return can not happen at the start of the thousand years, only at the end because he reigns until death is swallowed up. Plus Acts 3:21 tells us that he stays in heaven until the new earth, so that settles that.

 

[Davy]

You state the wicked will be outside the gate in the eternal kingdom, Revelation 22:15?

Your 100% correct, as Isaiah 66:24 clearly teaches, they will be burning outside the gates in the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

Yet Ezekiel 44 shows the unjust dead outside the city being visited by saved relatives. So the "lake of fire" you're trying to move to the time of Christ's coming is not then actually. It doesn't occur until after... God's GWT Judgment.

 

[Truth7t7]

i think you need to read that Rev.22:14-15 Scripture again. And maybe the Ezek.44 chapter also, since it's Millennium timing also.

I think you need to read Isaiah 66:24 to understand the wicked outside the gates in Revelation 22:15, are burning in the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

"The Eternal Kingdom"

Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 The eternal river and tree of life.

 

[LastSeven]

Yes, the thousand years begins at His second coming.

That's not what the book says. It says the thousand years ends at his second coming.

1 Corinthians 15
then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

See, when he comes, then the end will come and he hands over the kingdom. In other words, the thousand year reign ends. Also it says he reigns until he has put death under his feet. So we know death is destroyed at the end of his thousand year reign, and this "end of death" is the second resurrection.

It all happens at the end.