Millennial Considerations

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vinsight4u said:

This has to do with the first life as to what goes on above ground-on the earth. It is not showing that a soul does not live on after death. Their thoughts perish as to what they had planned and hoped for -not that they can no longer think.


God never destroys the souls of the righteous -as to the inner man in a body. The devils also showed that torment and destroy are the same thing. Did not want to be tormented/destroyed early.

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Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can notcelebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

vinsight4u said:

Job 33:4

“The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.”


Job 34:14

“If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;”

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Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

So the souls in heaven at this time are with the Lord but not praising him?

vinsight4u said:

The book of Job is one place where it tells about the spirit and breath. Saul thought he could have Samuel called up.
Jesus Christ told how Moses was told that God is the God of the living. I am - the God of Abraham
Luke 16 - Abraham talks to the rich man in hell/tormented in this place - by this flame


Job 12:10

“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”

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right and without the breathof life there is no soul.

Original Happy Camper said:

Please show me a bible verse that says without the breath of live the soul liveth.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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In order to know that you are in torment is to be conscience -to have awareness of your surroundings , as those in hell experience now

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

seventysevens said:

The wicked have eternal souls

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There is a chance, not opposed to God's Word, that they don't.
Well, they 'do', and they don't, with the different meanings people have gleaned from Scripture of the word 'eternal'. (compare all the things in Scripture that are stated to be "eternal" (in english that is), and see that many of the things ended already)

i.e. 'eternal' in english is often not understood, what YHWH means.

vinsight4u said:

Luke 16 - Abraham talks to the rich man in hell/tormented in this place - by this flame

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This interpertation does not line up with other bible verses above. this is an allegory not to be taken literally ie do you think a drop of water would quench the everlasting fire?

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

There is a chance, not opposed to God's Word, that they don't.

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In order to know that you are in torment is to be conscience -to have awareness of your surroundings , as those in hell experience now

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Marilyn C said:

yes - take a look at Ez. 37: 24 & Jer. 30: 9. Also Ez. 46: 16 - 18.

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The following is my attempt at reasoning through some of these things.


Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Ezekiel 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my even my servant David

my servant David a prince among them

David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd

my servant David shall be their prince for ever


This last one anyway----my servant David shall be their prince for ever----can't fit forever inside of a millennium. Perhaps Truth7t7 can, but as to the rest of us, I think we all pretty much agree a millennium and for ever meaning the same thing, that that is a contradiction.


John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Revelation 7:17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

John 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Based on these Scriptures from the NT, and there's more than just these, and the fact Ezekiel 37:25 indicates---my servant David shall be their prince for ever---how could David His servant not be meaning Christ in this context?


Let's consider this as well----and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd(John 10:16)----compared with----And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David(Ezekiel 34:23)

If these are not meaning the same shepherd, one plus one does not equal one, it equals two. Scripture can't contradict itself, but this would be a contradiction if this shepherd in both passages are not referring to the same shepherd, in this case, that shepherd being Christ.

seventysevens said:

In order to know that you are in torment is to be conscience

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Mute[Moot] point.

seventysevens said:

In order to know that you are in torment is to be conscience -to have awareness of your surroundings , as those in hell experience now

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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for ever and ever means till consumed not eternity

Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? everlasting fire means that the fire cannot be put out till all is consumed

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Mute point.

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Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that you suffer torment and pain you have to have awareness ? ? In some manner the people cast in the lake of fire are in torment , anguishing - knowing they made a bad choice and are now suffering the penalty in which they were told would happen

seventysevens said:

Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that you suffer torment and pain you have to have awareness ?

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[moot](silent?) Mute (meaningless) point. i.e. so what ?

Original Happy Camper said:

for ever and ever means till consumed not eternity

Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? everlasting fire means that the fire cannot be put out till all is consumed

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

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whatever , you believe as you wish - forever and ever is never ending

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Mute (meaningless) point. i.e. so what ?

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You have no point , and if you are unable to grasp the meaning - unfortunate for you - that be your own problem

seventysevens said:

whatever , you believe as you wish - forever and ever is never ending

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That's what most people think,
and just in english that point could mean as you say,
but not in Scripture.

seventysevens said:

You have no point , and if you are unable to grasp the meaning - unfortunate for you - that be your own problem

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The point is mute [and moot] because it doesn't matter - the "moot" point is not the one being addressed, and doesn't change the actual point at all.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

That's what most people think,
and just in english that point could mean as you say,
but not in Scripture.

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yea right , scripture is posted - if you apply a different meaning - then you have the problem understanding what it means