Millennial Considerations

[iamlamad]

The ruling with a rod of iron would not be necessary for all eternity though. And since I agree with you that this ruling with a rod of iron would take place on the new earth, rather than this current one, the only way that is possible is that there is a period of time on the new earth that has a beginning and an ending. The only period of time that I can think of that might explain it would be the thousand years.

Sorry, but without rearranging Rev. 20, we can see that the 1000 year reign of Christ is on THIS earth, not the new earth.

 

[DavidPT]

Sorry, but without rearranging Rev. 20, we can see that the 1000 year reign of Christ is on THIS earth, not the new earth.

For the longest I used to conclude that as well. But since then I have been taking other Scriptures into consideration, such as the latter portion of Isaiah 60, for one.

Not only that, most Premils typically conclude Isaiah 65:17-25 are referring to the thousand years. To then say the thousand years does not occur on the new earth is a contradiction, the fact it says so right here----For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth(Isaiah 65:17). It doesn't say the old earth, this present earth, does it? It clearly says new earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

For the longest I used to conclude that as well. But since then I have been taking other Scriptures into consideration, such as the latter portion of Isaiah 60, for one.

Not only that, most Premils typically conclude Isaiah 65:17-25 are referring to the thousand years. To then say the thousand years does not occur on the new earth is a contradiction, the fact it says so right here----For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth(Isaiah 65:17). It doesn't say the old earth, this present earth, does it? It clearly says new earth.

Hi David,

That can be tricky Isa. 65: 17 however as we read on we see that God was declaring His intention -

BUT, the big BUT......God says BUT....meaning first of all I will do this for Jerusalem and further on we see that people will die. Thus v. 17 is the projection of what will come BUT God still has things to do with Israel prior to that.

Regards, Marilyn.

 

[DavidPT]

Hi David,

That can be tricky Isa. 65: 17 however as we read on we see that God was declaring His intention -

BUT, the big BUT......God says BUT....meaning first of all I will do this for Jerusalem and further on we see that people will die. Thus v. 17 is the projection of what will come BUT God still has things to do with Israel prior to that.

Regards, Marilyn.

My reasoning is this. If Isaiah 65:17 is meaning everything in Isaiah 65:18-25, and that everything in Isaiah 65:18-25 are meaning the thousand years, then according to the text in verse 17, it is in the new heavens and new earth when the thousand years takes place. How can it not be? How can Isaiah 65:18-25 and the thousand years be referring to the same time period, and that 65:18-25 are referring to the news heavens and a new earth, but the thousand years aren't? How is that supposed to be making logical sense?

 

[Marilyn C]

What about when Christ physically returns though? He has to dwell somewhere geographically, doesn't He? If that happens to literally be Jerusalem, what then? How is all of the above still applicable then? Isn't what you submitted only meaning in this age and not the next age as well?

Hi again David,

Have you ever considered your name sake? -

`David my servant shall be king over them, and they shall also walk in my judgments and observe my statues, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; .... ` (Ez. 37: 24 & 25)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

My reasoning is this. If Isaiah 65:17 is meaning everything in Isaiah 65:18-25, and that everything in Isaiah 65:18-25 are meaning the thousand years, then according to the text in verse 17, it is in the new heavens and new earth when the thousand years takes place. How can it not be? How can Isaiah 65:18-25 and the thousand years be referring to the same time period, and that 65:18-25 are referring to the news heavens and a new earth, but the thousand years aren't? How is that supposed to be making logical sense?

Hi David,

I hear you bro. However I think you misunderstood me. I hope to be clearer.

Isa. 65: 17 is God declaring His ultimate purpose - New Heavens & New Earth. However He says to Israel, that he still has plans for them on this old earth - to make them a rejoicing, a blessing to all. We know it is still the old earth as people die. (v. 20)

Hope that`s better, Marilyn.

 

[DavidPT]

Hi again David,

Have you ever considered your name sake? -

`David my servant shall be king over them, and they shall also walk in my judgments and observe my statues, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; .... ` (Ez. 37: 24 & 25)

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn. Could you explain further what you are meaning here? I think I have a good grasp as to what that passage is meaning, yet I'm not certain what your point was exactly? There's a good chance I will likely agree with you once I find out why you asked me to consider this?

 

[seventysevens]

Hi again David,

Have you ever considered your name sake? -

`David my servant shall be king over them, and they shall also walk in my judgments and observe my statues, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; .... ` (Ez. 37: 24 & 25)

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

This would appear to say that God is saying King David from the OT whose lineage Jesus came will be King on earth - unless it is a metaphor referring to Jesus; as I have heard used before

 

[LastSeven]

The ruling with a rod of iron would not be necessary for all eternity though. And since I agree with you that this ruling with a rod of iron would take place on the new earth, rather than this current one, the only way that is possible is that there is a period of time on the new earth that has a beginning and an ending. The only period of time that I can think of that might explain it would be the thousand years.

Why?

 

[LastSeven]

Hi LastSeven,

`My kingdom is not of - not from this world,` means His rule, His power and authority never came from earth or bestowed on him by people or Satan, (though he tried) but the Lord`s power and authority (rule) comes from heaven, specifically the Father, as Jesus told us - (John 5: 27 Ps. 2: 6 110: 1 & 2)

Christ will reign with His rule from the Father till He has put down all (rebellious) rule and authority. (1 Cor.15: 24 & 25) which we all know well.

regards, Marilyn.

He wasn't talking about the source of his authority. He was talking about the type of kingdom over which he rules.

 

[LastSeven]

Are you saying that you are not aware of the scriptures that state that Jesus will have a kingdom on earth , ? oh yeah you think that has already happened , the mistake is yours for simply misinterpreting the scripture you read , such as the 1000 year reign , you misread the scriptures and expect people to agree with your false interpretation as like the 'new clothes' of a particular emperor

I think that already happened? Where did you get that from?

The only time Jesus will rule on earth will be on the new earth. That certainly hasn't happened yet.

 

[LastSeven]

If you think this, they you are rearranging Revelation. Why would you do that?

Rev. 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

7. When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison...

9. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

(Has there been ANY mention of a new heaven and earth up to this verse? No. )

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

Then WHEN? Then, AFTER the thousand years are over and AFTER fire has come down and killed all those who were stupid and wished to fight against God.

Note carefully, AFTER all these things, the 1000 years and the fire, THEN John saw the great white throne and saw that earth and heavens fled.

I realize you're trying to make a point but I'm not getting it. How does any of that disprove anything I've said?

 

[Marilyn C]

He wasn't talking about the source of his authority. He was talking about the type of kingdom over which he rules.

The source and the type are the same, bro.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn. Could you explain further what you are meaning here? I think I have a good grasp as to what that passage is meaning, yet I'm not certain what your point was exactly? There's a good chance I will likely agree with you once I find out why you asked me to consider this?

As we read further, in Ezekiel on this subject, we see that this king/prince over Israel in the millennium is an earthly man because he has sons and leaves them their inheritances.

The actual King David of old is in the General Assembly awaiting his inheritance in the New Jerusalem. (Heb. 12: 23) he is one of the `just men` the Heb. 11 people.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

This would appear to say that God is saying King David from the OT whose lineage Jesus came will be King on earth - unless it is a metaphor referring to Jesus; as I have heard used before

Hi SS,

As I explained to David, the king / Prince over Israel in the Millennium is a man for he has sons to whom he gives their inheritance. The other King David of old is one of the `just men` (& women) of the OT who are awaiting their inheritance in the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

Hope that is clearer, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

I think that already happened? Where did you get that from?

The only time Jesus will rule on earth will be on the new earth. That certainly hasn't happened yet.

Hi LastSeven,

Remember that scripture concerning the Lord putting down all (rebellious) authority and power, well that starts in the trib, and goes right through to the great White Throne. And as there is rebellious authority on earth as well as in the universal heavens then the Lord will be ruling over them - casting down Satan and his fallen angels, dealing with the world systems and their leadership and armies, then judging over those who didn`t look after His brethren the Jews in the trib, then on into the millennium where any rebellion will be dealt with.

So the Lord will be reigning over the earth in the trib, the millennium and on into the New heavens and New Earth, BUT NOT ON the earth ever.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[seventysevens]

Hi SS,

As I explained to David, the king / Prince over Israel in the Millennium is a man for he has sone to whom he gives their inheritance. The other King David of old is one of the `just men` (& women) of the OT who are awaiting their inheritance in the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

Hope that is clearer, Marilyn.

king / Prince over Israel in the Millennium is a man - ....ok , what direction are you going are you hinting at a particular man ? a man named David but not King David?

 

[Marilyn C]

king / Prince over Israel in the Millennium is a man - ....ok , what direction are you going are you hinting at a particular man ? a man named David but not King David?

yes - take a look at Ez. 37: 24 & Jer. 30: 9. Also Ez. 46: 16 - 18.

 

[Marilyn C]

king / Prince over Israel in the Millennium is a man - ....ok , what direction are you going are you hinting at a particular man ? a man named David but not King David?

Yes, - take a look at Jer. 30: 9, Ez. 37: 24 & Ez. 46: 16 - 18

 

[seventysevens]

Yes, - take a look at Jer. 30: 9, Ez. 37: 24 & Ez. 46: 16 - 18

Those plus a read of Rev, Cor, 1Peter and others It really looks that Kind David is the King on earth during the Millennium and Christians are ruling with David over the nations with David as king