Michigan School Shooter, 15, charged as adult on murder, terrorism - parents may also be charged

[Estrid]

I don't get it. I just don't get it What is this infatuation with guns? They're instruments of death. It's utterly beyond comprehension for me.

Maybe, if you went to a shooting range, talked to people,
fired a gun yourself, you would learn a lot.
About people you clearly do not comprehend, and, about yourself.

As an international student in the USA I was beaten and raped.
I obtained a pistol thinking, never again.

But how to use it?
I got instructions at a range. I was afraid of the gun,
and very leery of these distasteful redneck goons who
like to shoot.

Surprise surprise, my stereotype was so stupid. Nice totally
not weird men and women, friendly and helpful. Why wouldn't they be?

Took a special interest in me, a half pint Asian girl.

Before long they let me try different kinds of guns, and t
urns out its fun to shoot. Who knew? Mostly i was shooting target
guns. Which are not. " instruments of death" any more than a steak
knife is. My little pistol was my instrument of life that of course i neerr used.
But if its him or me it was going to be me.

People also enjoy learning karate and fencing, which are
" iinstruments of death"...are they?


So back in HK, no guns allowed so no more of that for me.

Super interesting experience though, and i learned a lot.

 

[Torah Keeper]

One thing I learned,

"It's usually the person you most suspect".

It you suspect they are going to do something, they probably will. That is why certain students stayed home.

Unfortunately this is yet another example of a murderer blogging his plans to kill people, and most people ignored it. Next time, don't ignore the warning signs. Investigate and prevent incidents like this from happening.

Not every dog is all bark and no bite.

 

[Estrid]

Merry Christmas. Peace to you.

And to your thoughts about fellow citizens!

 

[Aldebaran]

Partisanship has stoked citizens' fears for decades. They use the fear to exploit voters without considering the societal repercussions. This only serves to exacerbate the anger, fears and infatuation with weapons. I'm an American and I cannot justify the infatuation myself. It seems many Americans are willing to sacrifice hundreds of fellow citizens, some children, as an unpleasant side effect of their infatuation.

To stoke fear, one only needs to watch the news.

 

[Eftsoon]

Maybe, if you went to a shooting range, talked to people,
fired a gun yourself, you would learn a lot.
About people you clearly do not comprehend, and, about yourself.

As an international student in the USA I was beaten and raped.
I obtained a pistol thinking, never again.

But how to use it?
I got instructions at a range. I was afraid of the gun,
and very leery of these distasteful redneck goons who
like to shoot.

Surprise surprise, my stereotype was so stupid. Nice totally
not weird men and women, friendly and helpful. Why wouldn't they be?

Took a special interest in me, a half pint Asian girl.

Before long they let me try different kinds of guns, and t
urns out its fun to shoot. Who knew? Mostly i was shooting target
guns. Which are not. " instruments of death" any more than a steak
knife is. My little pistol was my instrument of life that of course i neerr used.
But if its him or me it was going to be me.

People also enjoy learning karate and fencing, which are
" iinstruments of death"...are they?


So back in HK, no guns allowed so no more of that for me.

Super interesting experience though, and i learned a lot.

That must have been so traumatic. You're in my prayers.

 

[Estrid]

That must have been so traumatic. You're in my prayers.

It was bad, and you never get over it.
But Im most of the way to learning to
live with it.
Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ethan Crumbley expected to plead guilty for fatal shooting at Oxford High School, prosecutors say

Crumbley, who was 15 when the shooting took place, is set to plead guilty to all 24 charges against him, including one count of terrorism causing death and four counts of first-degree murder, for killing four students at Oxford High School in November, according to Oakland County Chief Assistant Prosecutor David Williams.

[He previously plead not guilty, so he's changing his plea.]

Prosecutors argued [his parents (who are charged with involuntary manslaughter)] played “a much larger role than just buying their son a gun,” and there were many things the parents could have done, other than simply locking up the gun, which could have prevented the tragedy. They also argued the parents had “every reason” to know their son was dangerous.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ethan Crumbley expected to plead guilty for fatal shooting at Oxford High School, prosecutors say

Ethan Crumbley pleaded guilty to all 24 charges against him – including one count of terrorism causing death and four counts of first-degree murder – for fatally shooting the four students at Oxford High School on November 30.

Crumbley, wearing an orange jumpsuit and a medical mask pulled down below his chin, also confirmed that on the day of the mass shooting, he got a gun from an unlocked container in his home, hid it in his backpack and pulled it out of his bag in a bathroom before opening fire on his schoolmates.

[His father] James Crumbley had purchased the gun used in the shooting just four days before the deadly attack, prosecutors have said.

 

[rturner76]

back in HK, no guns allowed so no more of that for me.

Just out of curiosity, how often is there a mass shooting in your part of HK?

Maybe, if you went to a shooting range, talked to people,
fired a gun yourself, you would learn a lot.
About people you clearly do not comprehend, and, about yourself.

As an international student in the USA I was beaten and raped.
I obtained a pistol thinking, never again.

But how to use it?
I got instructions at a range. I was afraid of the gun,
and very leery of these distasteful redneck goons who
like to shoot.

Surprise surprise, my stereotype was so stupid. Nice totally
not weird men and women, friendly and helpful. Why wouldn't they be?

Took a special interest in me, a half pint Asian girl.

Before long they let me try different kinds of guns, and t
urns out its fun to shoot. Who knew? Mostly i was shooting target
guns. Which are not. " instruments of death" any more than a steak
knife is. My little pistol was my instrument of life that of course i neerr used.
But if its him or me it was going to be me.

People also enjoy learning karate and fencing, which are
" iinstruments of death"...are they?


So back in HK, no guns allowed so no more of that for me.

Super interesting experience though, and i learned a lot.

I am sorry for your ordeal as an exchange student. College rape is not often talked about but it runs rampant in the USA. Many don't come forward because of the embarrassment and feelings that they are somehow at fault. The only fault lies with the barbarians who perpetrate these heinous crimes.

I am no longer a big proponent of easy access to firearms but your story makes me understand why someone would feel the need to carry a firearm.

At a certain time in my life, I was cornered by a super buff racist who didn't like me. He threatened me and I got a gun. I do believe there is a place for them but how do we reconcile the need for law-abiding citizens to have access to firearms and the need to keep them out of the hands of mass shooters?

 

[essentialsaltes]

The parents of the Oxford High School shooter will stand trial on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the four deaths their son Ethan Crumbley caused in the November 2021 shooting, the Michigan Court of Appeals has ruled.

The parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, have argued the charges have no legal justification and they should not be held responsible for their son’s killings.

A panel of judges for the state’s appellate court acknowledged in a written opinion filed Thursday the possible precedent-setting nature of this case – holding parents accountable for a child’s actions – but called the situation unique and unusual.

 

[rturner76]

I think parents do have culpability when it is their firearms that they weren't able to keep secure from their children. If you can't control the use of firearms in your family....you should probably use tasers and/or gas

 

[essentialsaltes]

The parents of the Oxford High School shooter will stand trial on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the four deaths their son Ethan Crumbley caused in the November 2021 shooting, the Michigan Court of Appeals has ruled.

The judge is deciding what evidence can and can't be used at trial.

Jennifer Crumbley: Son's 'extremely disgusting' bird torture shouldn't be used against me​

[Judge Cheryl Matthews] will not allow evidence about infidelity by the parents; their messy house; alcohol and marijuana in the house; and their son's Instagram pictures, internet searches and a Nazi coin he had.

Ethan Crumbley, who is to be sentenced Friday for his rampage two years ago, had videotaped himself killing birds, court records show. His mother, facing involuntary manslaughter charges along with her husband, maintains she never knew her son tortured birds or that he hid a bird's head under his bed for months, then brought it to school in the same month he killed four students and injured seven others, including a teacher.

 

[rturner76]

The judge is deciding what evidence can and can't be used at trial.

Jennifer Crumbley: Son's 'extremely disgusting' bird torture shouldn't be used against me​

[Judge Cheryl Matthews] will not allow evidence about infidelity by the parents; their messy house; alcohol and marijuana in the house; and their son's Instagram pictures, internet searches and a Nazi coin he had.

Ethan Crumbley, who is to be sentenced Friday for his rampage two years ago, had videotaped himself killing birds, court records show. His mother, facing involuntary manslaughter charges along with her husband, maintains she never knew her son tortured birds or that he hid a bird's head under his bed for months, then brought it to school in the same month he killed four students and injured seven others, including a teacher.

This illustrates that the boy was unfit to handle any firearm and that the parents were negligent by somehow allowing said boy access to legally purchased firearms and ammunition. There must be a point where people with "the right to keep and bear arms" can be held responsible for allowing said firearms that they keep and bear to be accessed by psychotic maniac minors who aim to execute children and other people during a psychotic break. Psychosis is a medical condition however people who are afflicted by such a condition should not be allowed access to their parent's firearms.

That is why the Second Amendment specifies that the militia members' access to firearms be well regulated. First, the boy was not a member of a well-regulated militia and second, and second, his parents should be liable for allowing a psychotic underage non-member of a well-regulated militia access to their firearms.

The firearm issue in the United States has gotten so distorted that people feel it is prudent to allow mass shootings as long as they cam maintain the right to blast a fellow citizen as long as they "feel threatened."

 

[Estrid]

This illustrates that the boy was unfit to handle any firearm and that the parents were negligent by somehow allowing said boy access to legally purchased firearms and ammunition. There must be a point where people with "the right to keep and bear arms" can be held responsible for allowing said firearms that they keep and bear to be accessed by psychotic maniac minors who aim to execute children and other people during a psychotic break. Psychosis is a medical condition however people who are afflicted by such a condition should not be allowed access to their parent's firearms.

That is why the Second Amendment specifies that the militia members' access to firearms be well regulated. First, the boy was not a member of a well-regulated militia and second, and second, his parents should be liable for allowing a psychotic underage non-member of a well-regulated militia access to their firearms.

The firearm issue in the United States has gotten so distorted that people feel it is prudent to allow mass shootings as long as they cam maintain the right to blast a fellow citizen as long as they "feel threatened."

"allow"? "Feel... prudent" " feel threatened"
Are you wholly confident about your ability to mjnd- read
others' feelings?

"Allow"


You find there is a way to disallow?

 

[rturner76]

You find there is a way to disallow

Yes "allow." When I was a gun-toting American citizen, I kept all of my firearms in a locked gun safe. If parents can't be bothered to secure their firearms, they should probably keep the guns out of the house. "Allowing" your child to access your firearms has been the root cause of many many mass shootings.

Let's be clear, are you saying that there is no way to prevent a child from accessing their firearms? Considering there are gun safes, trigger lock, and the ability to remove the firearms from your home.

Are you saying that mass shootings perpetrated by children by accessing their parents' firearms cannot be prevented?

 

[essentialsaltes]

A teenager in Michigan who killed four students with a semi-automatic handgun has been sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole.

Ethan Crumbley, 17, pleaded guilty to terrorism and murder charges last year.

He was 15 when he opened fire at Oxford High School, around 30 miles (48km) north of Detroit, in November 2021.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The judge is deciding what evidence can and can't be used at trial.

Jennifer Crumbley: Son's 'extremely disgusting' bird torture shouldn't be used against me​

Jennifer Crumbley wants 3 witnesses banned from her trial: Their stories are 'so gruesome'​

Smith argues, what went on inside the school that day has nothing to do with the elements of the crime that the mother is accused of.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Jennifer Crumbley, mother of school shooter, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter​

[She] was found guilty Tuesday of all four counts of involuntary manslaughter in a novel legal case that stood as a test of the limits of who’s responsible for a school shooting.

The prosecution argued Jennifer Crumbley is responsible for the deaths because she was “grossly negligent” in giving a gun to her son Ethan, who was 15 at the time, and failing to get him proper mental health treatment despite warning signs.

However, the defense argued the blame lay elsewhere: on her husband [who also faces trial] for improperly securing the firearm; on the school for failing to notify her about her son’s behavioral issues; and on Ethan himself, who planned and carried out the attack on his own.

 

[DaisyDay]

I watched some of the trial testimony of Jennifer Crumbley's trial. What stands out to me is how neglected Ethan was. He wrote in his journal that he told his parents he was hearing voices but they wouldn't get him help. I really hope he gets the help he needs now.

I think Ethan's mother is guilty of gross child neglect, but I'm not convinced that involuntary manslaughter is justified. She knew her son was deeply troubled but did nothing to help him. She and her husband not only bought him the gun and ammo, they did NOT tell the school that he owned a gun. She refused his direct and indirect cries for help. What she failed to do has had horrific consequences, but .... I don't know.

 

[DaisyDay]

Yes "allow." When I was a gun-toting American citizen, I kept all of my firearms in a locked gun safe. If parents can't be bothered to secure their firearms, they should probably keep the guns out of the house. "Allowing" your child to access your firearms has been the root cause of many many mass shootings.

And accidental shootings among friends and siblings as well as too many suicides.