Meteor craters and the Flood year

[grmorton]

I think that the young-earthers should consider what their theory means in relation to meteor impacts. Consider what one 300 m rock would mean:



"A huge meteor with the destructive power of 3,000 hydrogen bombs will skim past the Earth today in a cosmic encounter that has alarmed astronomers.

"Codenamed 1996 JA1, the 300 metre-wide chunk of rock was discovered only last Tuesday, suggesting that humanity may have just a few days' warning of disaster if a meteor turns out to be on a collision course."Robert Matthews, "Meteor pass will be a squeaker," Calgary Herald, Sunday, May 19, 1996, p. 1



Now, consider that we geoscientists have found lots of meteor craters in the fossil record. Many of them are much, much bigger than the crater which would be formed by that 300-m diameter chunk of rock mentioned above. Below is a list of the meteor craters we have found in the fossil record. They are not all the same geologic age and this means that they would have come in at slightly different periods during the flood. But the amazing thing is that most YECs who believe in a one-year global flood don't know that their belief system requires accepting that the earth was literally bombarded with millions of megatons of meteoric impacts during the period of time that the geologic column was laid down.



The old earther doesn't have a problem with this because he believes that the craters were deposited over 545 million years. But the YEC believes that all these craters were the remnants of impacts which occurred in only 1 year. Think what the ride Noah and company had with such large meteors raining down on their head!!!



Now, please explain the data below and why this much energy wouldn't kill off all life!
...........................................Diam (km) ………….. energy megatons
Acraman, Australia ………….. 160 ………….. 129,096,223.83
Ames Iowa ……..............…….. 16 ………….. 51,394.13
Amguid …….................…….. 0.45 ………….. 0.67
Aouelloul, Mauritania …….... 0.39 ………….. 0.41
Araguainha Dome …….…..….. 40 ………….. 1,158,536.09
Avak ………......................….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Azuara, Spain …........……….. 30 ………….. 435,630.08
B.P. Structure ……….......….. 2.8 ………….. 334.70
Barringer, Arizona …..…….. 1.186 ………….. 18.04
Beaverhead ……...........…….. 60 ………….. 4,598,538.74
Bee Bluff …………............... 2.4 ………….. 198.17
Beyenchime-Salaatin ……….. 8 ………….. 4,868.68
Bigach ………...................….. 7 ………….. 3,092.00
Boltysh, Ukraine ……..…….. 25 ………….. 234,369.79
Bosumtwi, Ghana ………….. 10.5 ………….. 12,272.96
Boxhole, North Territory, ….. 0.17 ………….. 0.02
Brent, Ontario, Canada …….. 3.8 ………….. 387.41
Campo Del Cielo, Argentina . 0.05 ………….. 0.00
Carswell, Saskatchewan, …….. 39 ………….. 1,062,980.41
Charlevoix, Canada ………….. 54 ………….. 3,213,988.97
Chicxulub, Mexico ………….. 300 ………….. 1,094,253,297.41
Chiyli ………....................….. 5.5 ………….. 1,361.88
Clearwater Lake East, Quebec . 22 ………….. 151,754.90
Clearwater Lake West, Quebec . 32 ………….. 542,519.71
Connolly Basin, Australia …….. 9 ………….. 7,266.58
Crooked Creek, Missouri …….. 7 ………….. 3,092.00
Dalgaranga, West Australia ….. 0.021 ………….. 0.00
Decaturville, Missouri ……….. 6 ………….. 1,830.71
Deep Bay, Saskatchewan, ….. 13 ………….. 25,369.56
Dellen, Sweden …………....... 15 ………….. 41,268.23
Des Plaines, Illinois ………….. 8 ………….. 4,868.68
Dobele ………...................….. 4.5 ………….. 688.38
Eagle Butte ………...........….. 19 ………….. 92,186.61
El'Gygytgyn, Russi..a …….... 18 ………….. 76,706.49
Flynn Creek, Tennessee …….. 3.55 ………….. 307.38
Garnos ………...................….. 5 ………….. 984.93
Glasford, Illinois ……....…….. 4 ………….. 461.22
Glover Bluff ………...........….. 3 ………….. 423.18
Goat Paddock ………......….. 5.1 ………….. 1,053.52
Gosses Bluff, North Territory, 22 ………….. 151,754.90
Gow Lake, Canada ………….. 4 ………….. 461.22
Gusev ……….....................….. 3.5 ………….. 292.91
Haughton, Canada ………….. 20.5 ………….. 119,362.73
Haviland ……...............…….. 0.015 ………….. 0.00
Henbury, North Territory, A.. 0.157 ………….. 0.02
Holleford, Ontario, Canada … 2.35 ………….. 184.48
Ile Rouleau ………..............….. 4 ………….. 461.22

Ilyinets ………...................….. 4.5 ………….. 688.38
Janisjarvi, Russia …..……….. 14 ………….. 32,639.31
Kaalijarvi ………............….. 0.11 ………….. 0.01
Kaluga, Russia …......……….. 15 ………….. 41,268.23
Kamensk ……...............…….. 25 ………….. 234,369.79
Kara, Russia ……….........….. 65 ………….. 6,036,858.70
Kara-Kul, USSR ……...…….. 52 ………….. 2,826,942.44
Kardla ……....................…….. 4 ………….. 461.22
Karla …….......................…….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Kelly West ………............….. 10 ………….. 10,396.94
Kentland, Indiana ……..…….. 13 ………….. 25,369.56
Kursk ………...................….. 5.5 ………….. 1,361.88
Lac Couture, Quebec, Canada . 8 ………….. 4,868.68
Lac La Moinerie, Canada ..….. 8 ………….. 4,868.68
Lappajarvi, Finland …….…... 17 ………….. 63,158.52
Lawn Hill …………................ 18 ………….. 76,706.49
Liverpool …….............…….. 1.6 ………….. 49.93
Lockne ………...................….. 7 ………….. 3,092.00
Logancha, Russia ………….. 20 ………….. 109,750.77
Logoisk ………...............….. 17 ………….. 63,158.52
Lonar, India ……….........….. 1.83 ………….. 78.82
Macha ……….................….. 0.3 ………….. 0.17
Manicouagan, Quebec, .........100 ………….. 26,115,936.14
Manson, Iowa ……….....….. 35 ………….. 735,761.31
Marquez ……….............….. 22 ………….. 151,754.90
Middlesboro, Kentucky ….... 6 ………….. 1,830.71
Mien, Sweden ……….....….. 9 ………….. 7,266.58
Misarai ………...............….. 5 ………….. 984.93
Mishina Gora …......……….. 4 ………….. 461.22
Mistastin, Labrador, Canada 28 ………….. 344,542.58
Mjolnir ………...............….. 11 ………….. 14,376.09
Montagnais …….........…….. 45 ………….. 1,729,131.99
Monturaqui, Chile ……….. 0.46 ………….. 0.72
Morasko ………............….. 0.1 ………….. 0.00
New Quebec, Quebec, ….. 3.44 ………….. 276.19
Nicholson Lake, Canada .. 12.5 ………….. 22,202.39
Oasis …………................. 11.5 ………….. 16,721.62
Obolon ………..............….. 15 ………….. 41,268.23
Odessa, Texas ………….. 0.168 ………….. 0.02
Ouarkziz, Algeria ……….. 3.5 ………….. 292.91
Piccaninny ………….......... 7 ………….. 3,092.00
Pilot Lake, Canada …….. 5.8 ………….. 1,631.40
Popigai …………............... 100 ………….. 26,115,936.14
Presqu'Ile ……….........….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Pretoria Salt Pan................. 1.13 ………….. 15.30
Puchezh-Katunki ………….. 80 ………….. 12,229,580.32
Ragozinka, Russia ………….. 9 ………….. 7,266.58
Red Wing ………............….. 9 ………….. 7,266.58
Riachao Ring …….......…….. 4.5 ………….. 688.38
Ries, Germany ………...….. 24 ………….. 203,997.02
Rio Cuarto ………..........….. 4.5 ………….. 688.38
Rochechouart, France ……... 23 ………….. 176,514.44
Roter Kamm, Namibia ……. 2.5 ………….. 227.67
Rotmistrovka …………,,,,,,,,.. 2.7 ………….. 295.77
Saaksjarvi, Finland ………….. 5 ………….. 984.93
Saint Martin, Canada ……….. 40 ………….. 1,158,536.09
Serpent Mound, Ohio ……. 6.4 ………….. 2,279.91
Serra Da Cangalha ……….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Shunak, Kazakhstan ……..... 3.1 ………….. 193.88
Sierra Madera, Texas …….. 13 ………….. 25,369.56
Sikhote Alin, USSR ……… 0.027 ………….. 0.00
Siljan, Sweden ……...…….. 55 ………….. 3,420,887.11
Slate Islands ………......….. 30 ………….. 435,630.08
Sobolev ………............….. 0.053 ………….. 0.00
Soderfjarden, Finland …….. 6 ………….. 1,830.71
Spider, Australia ………..... 13 ………….. 25,369.56
Steen River, Canada ………. 25 ………….. 234,369.79
Steinheim, Germany …….. 3.8 ………….. 387.41
Strangways ……….......….. 25 ………….. 234,369.79
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada . 200 ………….. 275,681,474.65
Tabun-Khara-Obo ………. 1.3 ………….. 24.64
Talemzane, Algeria …….. 1.75 ………….. 67.71
Teague, Australia ………... 30 ………….. 435,630.08
Tenoumer, Mauritania ….. 1.9 ………….. 89.55
Ternovka ………..........….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Tin Bider ………...........….. 6 ………….. 1,830.71
Tookoonooka ………..….. 55 ………….. 3,420,887.11
Tvaren ………..............….. 2 ………….. 106.61
Upheaval Dome, Utah ….. 5 ………….. 984.93
Ust-Kara ………..........….. 25 ………….. 234,369.79
Vargeao Dome ………….. 12 ………….. 19,325.10
Veevers ………...........….. 0.08 ………….. 0.00
Vepriaj ……...............…….. 8 ………….. 4,868.68
Vredefort, South Africa .. 140 ………….. 81,986,230.51
Wabar, Arabia ……….. 0.097 ………….. 0.00
Wanapitei Lake, Canada .. 7.5 ………….. 3,909.43
Wells Creek, Tennessee …14 ………….. 32,639.31
West Hawk Lake, Canada . 3.15 ………….. 204.72
Wetumka ………............….. 6.5 ………….. 2,403.32
Wolfe Creek, Australia …… 0.875 ………….. 6.41
Zapadnaya …………........... 4 ………….. 461.22
Zeleny Gai …………........... 2.5 ………….. 227.67
Zhamanshin, Kazakhstan .. 13.5 ………….. 28,843.00



This calculation, using Gene Shoemaker’s equation for energy of the meteorite as deduced from the crater size that these meteor craters shows that they cumulatively represent 1.6 billion megatons of energy. The world’s nuclear arsenal represents 13000 megatons.

According to the young-earthers, who think that this is no problem, it must be that nuclear winter is good for us.


Ok, it is the turn for the Young-earthers to explain the data. How did Noah survive megatons of impacts occurring in a one year period?????

 

[Vastavus]

Great Post, I fear the YECs will plug their ears and hit the 'back' button on the browser when presented with such evidence. Great data.

 

[grmorton]

Come on young-earthers. I thought you had the answers. There has not been a single young-earther answer the above data.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Goddidit. Problem solved. Next!

 

[mikeynov]

lol

Just out of curiosity, do you have some primary references for these sites as well as the formula used for the estimated energy release? Given that information at hand, this will be one hilarious thread for YEC's to answer.

 

[larry lunchpail]

WOW Chicxulub = 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 kilograms of TNT! thats a lot of death and destruction there on that list, the planet and life seem pretty damn resilient when viewed on a large scale. off topic, its funny how people get so worked up about climate change and the planet, they arent worried about the preservation of the planet and life, the planet and life itself has proved unbreakable, they are worried about preserving the planet as is, and life meaning themselves and animals they are familliar with exclusively. kinda selfish motivation if you ask me.

 

[Risen from the Dust]

This calculation, using Gene Shoemaker’s equation for energy of the meteorite as deduced from the crater size that these meteor craters shows that they cumulatively represent 1.6 billion megatons of energy.

Wow...that's a lot of energy released over time.

The world’s nuclear arsenal represents 13000 megatons.

I heard somewhere before that if all the earth's nuclear weaponry were to detonate similultaniously, it would knock the earth significantly out of orbit.

Edit: correction, I meant: "...knock the earth's rotation period significantly out of kilter."

BTW: I think young earth creationists would generally deny the evidence of impacts and instead claim they were massive volcanic eruptions -- eruptions that apparently reshaped the world "underneath" all the water that was covering it. Submerged deep under the ocean, they would claim the tectonic lines were formed at this time -- or something like that.

No. I don't think this happened. It's just what I think their reply would be -- or something very similar to it (along with "some explanation" as to why the ark wasn't capsized and destoryed from the Mount Everest sized tsunamies that should then be rolling over the submerged earth due to the tremendous release of energy)...

Man...that's a scary thought.

 

[LittleNipper]

Come on young-earthers. I thought you had the answers. There has not been a single young-earther answer the above data.

I am reminded of the the verse, Genesis 7:16 (....Then the LORD shut him in). I have wondered at that statement. Did a large hand come from heaven and close the big door. Did Christ pay a pre-incarnate visit and hoist the door shut. Or perhaps as meteors began to rain down on the earth----triggering the beginning of the end for the Pre-FLOOD earth, did an aftershock slam that door shut..?

Again I am reminded that In Genesis 8:1 ( ...and HE sent a wind over the earth and the waters receded). Was this a gentle wind or a mighty wind? Again, would not meteor strikes cause a wind?

Psalms 46:1-3

GOD is our refuge and strength, and ever present help in times of trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way, and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, thought its waters roar and foam.

Since I believe that the geography of this planet was changed very fast, I feel meteors and asteroids certainly played a big part. Worm Wood will bring change again someday...

 

[mikeynov]

I am reminded of the the verse, Genesis 7:16 (....Then the LORD shut him in). I have wondered at that statement. Did a large hand come from heaven and close the big door. Did Christ pay a pre-incarnate visit and hoist the door shut. Or perhaps as meteors began to rain down on the earth----triggering the beginning of the end for the Pre-FLOOD earth, did an aftershock slam that door shut..?

Again I am reminded that In Genesis 8:1 ( ...and HE sent a wind over the earth and the waters receded). Was this a gentle wind or a mighty wind? Again, would not meteor strikes cause a wind?

Psalms 46:1-3

GOD is our refuge and strength, and ever present help in times of trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way, and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, thought its waters roar and foam.

Since I believe that the geography of this planet was changed very fast, I feel meteors and asteroids certainly played a big part. Worm Wood will bring change again someday...

I seemed to have missed the part where you actually explained the OP's data. Was your answer simply "God did it?"

 

[Hydra009]

Let's see...if all those meteors impacted Earth during the Flood, Noah would be in for quite a bumpy ride. To test what I mean, put a little rubber ducky or something in a full tub. Now drop a 20-pound bowling ball...

 

[larry lunchpail]

wait, why do they all have to take place during the one year of the flood?

 

[Hydra009]

Don't ask me, it's LittleNipper's speculation.

 

[LittleNipper]

Let's see...if all those meteors impacted Earth during the Flood, Noah would be in for quite a bumpy ride. To test what I mean, put a little rubber ducky or something in a full tub. Now drop a 20-pound bowling ball...

Psalms 18:7-19

The earth trembled and quacked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because He was angry. Smoke rose from HIS nostrils; consuming fire came from HIS mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. HE parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under HIS feet. HE mounted the cherubim and flew; HE soared on the wings of the wind. HE made darkness his covering, HIS canopy around HIM--the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of HIS presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning. The LORD thundered from the heaven; the voice of the MOST HIGH resounded. HE shot arrows and scattered the enemies, great bolts of lightning and routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. HE reached down from on high and took hold of me; HE drew me out of deep waters. HE rescued me from my powerful enemy, from my foe, who were too strong for me. They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the LORD was my support. HE brought me out into a spacious place; HE rescued me because HE delighted in me.

 

[Hydra009]

Ok, so Earth was more or less nuked by all those asteroids during the Flood and Noah et al were the only ones who didn't die because God protected them, is that correct?

 

[notto]

Psalms 18:7-19

The earth trembled and quacked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because He was angry. Smoke rose from HIS nostrils; consuming fire came from HIS mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. HE parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under HIS feet. HE mounted the cherubim and flew; HE soared on the wings of the wind. HE made darkness his covering, HIS canopy around HIM--the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of HIS presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning. The LORD thundered from the heaven; the voice of the MOST HIGH resounded. HE shot arrows and scattered the enemies, great bolts of lightning and routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. HE reached down from on high and took hold of me; HE drew me out of deep waters. HE rescued me from my powerful enemy, from my foe, who were too strong for me. They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the LORD was my support. HE brought me out into a spacious place; HE rescued me because HE delighted in me.

What does Davids' war praise have to do with meteorites and the flood year?

 

[BrotherSteve]

I should start by apologizing for my slightly antagonistic reply—it is not intended to offend anyone.



Wow! For a geoscientist you sure did make a lot of assumptions with out much evidence.



First, the “Calgary Herald” is hardly a reputable scientific source.



Second, there is no source for the big list you quoted.



Third, you claim the meteors are from different geologic ages. You make this statement as though it is fact but provide no proof, evidence, or sources.



Fourth, a young earth theory does not require “accepting that the earth was literally bombarded” with meteors. Again, that is just your opinion. There are exceptions in the geologic column, such as the appearance of single trees that extend vertically through multiple strata (Dorf 1960, Coffin, 1979). This directly contradicts that there is an exact “period of time that the geologic column was laid down” but instead suggests that you need to do more research.



Fifth, if you simply want an answer to “How did Noah survive megatons of impacts occurring in a one year period???” Here it is: why should a Christian have trouble believing that God (who makes meteors) would have trouble protecting his people (Noah) from meteors? If everything God did could be directly explained by science he wouldn’t be God (read Job). Christians believe—we have faith that Jesus rose from the dead, God created, etc. God protected Noah, his family, and the animals while they were on the ark, I can’t explain exactly how. Just call it a miracle!



If you seriously want to discuss the validity of some of the points you bring up and how you believe they impact a young earth just pick one point and we can go from there. However, a logical debate cannot be formed based on the background you have set with your post.



Cheers!

Steve

 

[Lord Emsworth]

wait, why do they all have to take place during the one year of the flood?

If I understand grmorton right then all the craters of these meteors are found in the geologic column, which according to YEC is a result of the flood.

 

[grmorton]

lol

Just out of curiosity, do you have some primary references for these sites as well as the formula used for the estimated energy release? Given that information at hand, this will be one hilarious thread for YEC's to answer.

Yeah,
Pilkington, M. and R. A. F. Grieve, "The Geophysical Signature of Terrestrial Impact Craters." Reviews of Geophysics, May 1992, vol. 30, pp. 161-181.

I have not checked but it used to be at:
http://www.meteorite.ch/crater.htm

I got Shoemaker's formula off the internet years ago. They reference:

Shoemaker, E.M. 1983 Asteroid and comet bombardment of the earth. _Ann. Rev. Earth Planet. Sci._ 11, 461‑494. [very long and fairly technical but a comprehensive examination of the subject]



Shoemaker, E.M., J.G. Williams, E.F. Helin & R.F. Wolfe 1979 Earth‑crossing asteroids: Orbital classes, collision rates with Earth, and origin. In _Asteroids_, T. Gehrels, ed., pp. 253‑282, University of Arizona Press, Tucson.





I would also point out that there is only one known casualty of a meteor in human history--or rather canid history.



“In 1911, the little town of Nakhla in Egypt was the scene of one of the most remarkable events in history: a chunk of rock fell from the sky and killed a dog, the only known canine fatality caused by a cosmic object. Improbable though this encounter was already, its truly extraordinary nature was revealed only decades later, when scientists found that the culprit was not a common or garden meteorite, but a piece of the planet Mars.” Paul Davies, The Fifth Miracle, (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1999), p. 205



But YECs need to answer why, given the very low probability for death by meteor, an Ordovician animal was also killed by a meteor. This would have had to have been during the flood, not a long time for the low probability event to become probable.



“A badly preserved orthocone nautiloid cephalopod, which occurs in contact with the meteorite, could have been hit and killed by the meteorite.” Per Thorslund, “Middle Ordovician Chondrite in Fossiliferous Limestone From Brunflo, Central Sweden,” Nature 289(1981):285-286, p. 286

 

[grmorton]

[/size][/font]

Wow...that's a lot of energy released over time.

[/size][/font]

I heard somewhere before that if all the earth's nuclear weaponry were to detonate similultaniously, it would knock the earth significantly out of orbit.

Edit: correction, I meant: "...knock the earth's rotation period significantly out of kilter."

BTW: I think young earth creationists would generally deny the evidence of impacts and instead claim they were massive volcanic eruptions -- eruptions that apparently reshaped the world "underneath" all the water that was covering it. Submerged deep under the ocean, they would claim the tectonic lines were formed at this time -- or something like that.

No. I don't think this happened. It's just what I think their reply would be -- or something very similar to it (along with "some explanation" as to why the ark wasn't capsized and destoryed from the Mount Everest sized tsunamies that should then be rolling over the submerged earth due to the tremendous release of energy)...

Man...that's a scary thought.

Well, it is hard to call them all volcanic when they have the proper magnetic and gravity signature of impacts, and when they have shocked quartz as evidence of pressures much higher than volcanoes are capable of. Here is the Rocknaby crater offshore Norway, I believe.

 

[grmorton]

I am reminded of the the verse, Genesis 7:16 (....Then the LORD shut him in). I have wondered at that statement. Did a large hand come from heaven and close the big door. Did Christ pay a pre-incarnate visit and hoist the door shut. Or perhaps as meteors began to rain down on the earth----triggering the beginning of the end for the Pre-FLOOD earth, did an aftershock slam that door shut..?

Again I am reminded that In Genesis 8:1 ( ...and HE sent a wind over the earth and the waters receded). Was this a gentle wind or a mighty wind? Again, would not meteor strikes cause a wind?

Psalms 46:1-3

GOD is our refuge and strength, and ever present help in times of trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way, and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, thought its waters roar and foam.

Since I believe that the geography of this planet was changed very fast, I feel meteors and asteroids certainly played a big part. Worm Wood will bring change again someday...

Fine then explain how the heat was dissipated without cooking Noah. You are aware that megatons can be converted into equivalent temperatures when those megatons are absorbed by the atmosphere. By the way, Big meteor impacts actually blow the atmosphere off of earth from horizon to horizon. This is beleived to have happened with some meteors

“Significant loss of shocked atmosphere limits the efficiency of acid-rain production with increasing impact energy, and the amount of projectile material retained allows us to constrain the minimum-size impactor required to deposit the observed Ir.”

For sufficiently energetic impacts, all of the atmosphere lying above the plane tangent to the Earth at the point of impact and all of the impactor are lost from the Earth. We conclude that the K/T impactor was most likely an asteroid >= 1014 kg in mass; data that suggest that acid rain was an important phenomenon imply that the asteroid was <= 1018kg in mass, or else all the shocked atmosphere would have been blown off.” Ann M. Vickery and H. Jay Melosh, “Atmospheric Erosion and Impactor Retention in Large Impacts, with Application to Mass Extinctions,” Geological Society of American Special Paper 247, 1990, p 289-300, p. 289