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ChileanEldr2004 said:I must say it is difficult to say that Mormons don't believe in the "same" God and Jesus Christ as you do, and that we aren't christians. I understand that according to the rules of this forum, because Mormons don't believe the different creeds. However, looking at the definition of a chrisitan, someon who believes in Christ, has recieved testimony from the Holy Spirit that he has risen, and died for our sins, (even in the name of the church it says the church of who..Jesus Christ) we know that Christ is the savior of all mankind. We are most definitely christians. The only difference is looking from our point of view that you must have a Prophet, like it says in Amos 3:7 ,"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "
Joseph Smith, being the first prophet, and as some call him a liar, came out of his first experience having had a vision seeing God and Jesus Christ, 2 separate beings, he didn't deduce or try and figure out the nature of God like it was done by the priests of Constantine during the writing of Nicean Creed, he actually saw God and Jesus Christ, he knew it, they appeared to him. Now I realize to believethat requires faith, but also looking at a bit of logic on two related themes;
1. During 1820 when Joseph recieved his first vision the mainstream christianity all believed in creeds, now if Joseph really was a "liar" what do liars do? They lie so people will be believe them correct? So why didn't he just follow the mainstream belief, I am positive many more people would have followed him, and less persecuted him, less would have tarred and feathered him, had he said, "Just like everyone believes I saw God he and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one." But he said was something the Christian world did not accept, and did not understand.
And 2. God never changes, Jesus Christ never changes, In Hebrews it says that Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever. If they always called prophets, like Jacob, Issac, Abraham, Adam, Noah, Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, why would they stop, are we not loved of God as his children from the ancient times? Why would he just stop calling prophets, even after Jesus Christ had been crucified the Apostles went out preaching, men who had been ORDAINED of God, not just anyone who decided they wanted to.
ChileanEldr2004 said:I must say it is difficult to say that Mormons don't believe in the "same" God and Jesus Christ as you do, and that we aren't christians.
I understand that according to the rules of this forum, because Mormons don't believe the different creeds.
However, looking at the definition of a chrisitan, someon who believes in Christ, has recieved testimony from the Holy Spirit that he has risen, and died for our sins, (even in the name of the church it says the church of who..Jesus Christ) we know that Christ is the savior of all mankind.
We are most definitely christians. The only difference is looking from our point of view that you must have a Prophet, like it says in Amos 3:7 ,"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "
Joseph Smith, being the first prophet, and as some call him a liar, came out of his first experience having had a vision seeing God and Jesus Christ, 2 separate beings,
he didn't deduce or try and figure out the nature of God like it was done by the priests of Constantine during the writing of Nicean Creed, he actually saw God and Jesus Christ, he knew it, they appeared to him. Now I realize to believethat requires faith, but also looking at a bit of logic on two related themes;
1. During 1820 when Joseph recieved his first vision the mainstream christianity all believed in creeds, now if Joseph really was a "liar" what do liars do? They lie so people will be believe them correct? So why didn't he just follow the mainstream belief, I am positive many more people would have followed him, and less persecuted him, less would have tarred and feathered him, had he said, "Just like everyone believes I saw God he and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one."
But he said was something the Christian world did not accept, and did not understand.
And 2. God never changes, Jesus Christ never changes,
In Hebrews it says that Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever. If they always called prophets, like Jacob, Issac, Abraham, Adam, Noah, Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, why would they stop, are we not loved of God as his children from the ancient times? Why would he just stop calling prophets, even after Jesus Christ had been crucified the Apostles went out preaching, men who had been ORDAINED of God, not just anyone who decided they wanted to.
elderbell said:We do not believe the Bible to be tainted. Examine the Bible closer, notice how long scripture was written by revelation from the Lord, notice how long Prophets were called. Since the beginning of time. So if God is perfect and unchanging, and has a plan, to insist that such does not happen even today is to challenge God's divine works. Where have any of us said, that the Bible is "devil tainted"? We believe in not only the Bible, but also the BOM/D&C/PoGP to be FURTHER revelation and testament of Jesus Christ. We are not "adding" to the Bible, we are presenting FURTHER scripture, it is a seperate book. Just as D&C is seperate from the BOM. You like to put words in people's mouths it's very unerving. I appreciate your passion for this discussion, but please do not imply on your petty reasoning.
When did LDS start believing that the Bible is trustworthy and that we can get closer to heaven by its concepts than any other book?elderbell said:We do not believe the Bible to be tainted. Examine the Bible closer, notice how long scripture was written by revelation from the Lord, notice how long Prophets were called. Since the beginning of time. So if God is perfect and unchanging, and has a plan, to insist that such does not happen even today is to challenge God's divine works. Where have any of us said, that the Bible is "devil tainted"? We believe in not only the Bible, but also the BOM/D&C/PoGP to be FURTHER revelation and testament of Jesus Christ. We are not "adding" to the Bible, we are presenting FURTHER scripture, it is a seperate book. Just as D&C is seperate from the BOM. You like to put words in people's mouths it's very unerving. I appreciate your passion for this discussion, but please do not imply on your petty reasoning.
Hello,rnmomof7 quote:
IF Joseph had indeed received it , he would have remembered it, and not changed stories as he so often did.
rnmomof7 said:Deu 18:22
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
I think we can measure the truth of your prophets by this standard .
Revelation 22:18-19 said:18: I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19: And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophesy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
I'm not sure who you addressed this post to. If it's to me, I will tell you that the Bible tells us how to have eternal life. It tells us what God's work is. It's about faith, not works. The Bible is complete in that it tells us what God wants us to know. Jesus wasn't lying when He said that He wouldn't leave us comfortless, but would send the Holy Spirit to teach us all truth. If we already have the opportunity for all truth, we don't need LDS prophets.elderbell said:You do realize that the Bible was not written at once, and that it took a process of revelation and prophecy from many prophets. So what you are saying is that after the Bible was effectively "complete" we need no more revelation or prophecy concerning these works? That would entail leaving scripture to man without guidance from God.
i'm sorry, but if the bible lacks the information here that we need with further 'explanation' from 'a fuller understanding' then their is no other conclusion to come to than the bible IS lacking, and that it HAS had the hand of error/sin/the enemy in it.1. That Jews came to the Western hemisphere.
2. That the church would become completely apostate.
3. That we would need to do certain works in order to gain exaltation.
4. That our goal is to become gods and goddesses.
5. That we need to perform secret ordinances similar to the freemasons.
This is what the Bible teaches:
1. That every single human needs a Savior.
2. That Jesus Christ is the only Savior and the only way to be redeeemed.
3. That the Holy Spirit will comfort and lead us into all truth.*
4. That our works will never save us because we are all failures using that method of salvation.
*That would NOT entail leaving scripture to man without guidance from God; the Holy Spirit is God
What a coincedence these are ALL in LDS scripture too.GodsWordisTrue said:This is what the Bible teaches:
1. That every single human needs a Savior.
2. That Jesus Christ is the only Savior and the only way to be redeeemed.
3. That the Holy Spirit will comfort and lead us into all truth.*
4. That our works will never save us because we are all failures using that method of salvation.
*That would NOT entail leaving scripture to man without guidance from God; the Holy Spirit is God.
Yea, you guys DO say things often then immediately contradict them.twhite982 said:What a coincedence these are ALL in LDS scripture too.
We must be doing something right by your own standard.
Tom
Are you unwilling to acknowledge those things are clearly taught in LDS scripture?MagusAlbertus said:Yea, you guys DO say things often then immediately contradict them.
If youre going to tell a lie it's best to put the counter-point in your argument then lie anyway, call the difference of 'opinion' faith.
The enemy is trixy and false!
sure, the book of Mormon tells you to do all sorts of things that the church's dogma immediately contradicts.Are you unwilling to acknowledge those things are clearly taught in LDS scripture?
Well at least you can see those attributes of God in the BofM.MagusAlbertus said:sure, the book of Mormon tells you to do all sorts of things...
Ive listened to the discussions, but the fact is the poor lady holding the books up didn't understand that by the grace of Jesus all our sins are washed away;Don't worry no one will ask you to take the discussions just because you saw those things in the BofM
twhite982 said:Are you unwilling to acknowledge those things are clearly taught in LDS scripture?
Tom
baker said:I think we agree. Does "discourage" = "encouraged not"?
Perhaps. But why does your church discourage one of the most profound symbols supported by biblical scripture?
What?!?! Why wouldn't you want to see an official announcement from your First Presidency? It was all about determining temple worthiness. Now, what your prophet determines to be appropriate intimate behavior between a man and wife, and their worthiness to god has to do with one another makes no sense to me. Anyway, if you don't want to see it, don't click here:
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