Met with the Missionaries?

[twhite982]

tom, your one of the most humble people Ive met.

Thank you, but that's not exactly true or else you don't know too many people.

Which is it?

Dont worry about offences. If the Word offends, then so be it. Were not here to tickle the crowds ears.

I've heard a statement that I haven't forgotten and I try to live by.

"People are more important than truth"

By itself it seems an odd thing to say, but it really means that whether we think we have all the truth in the entire world, its the people that we are dealing with that really matter and we shouldn't use our truth as a sledge-hammer to beat the other person over the head with.

We can let our truth stand for itself without all the "baggage" we tend to feel the need to attach to it.


Tom

 

[unbound]

Yes , I agree.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Thank you, but that's not exactly true or else you don't know too many people.

Which is it?


I've heard a statement that I haven't forgotten and I try to live by.

"People are more important than truth"

By itself it seems an odd thing to say, but it really means that whether we think we have all the truth in the entire world, its the people that we are dealing with that really matter and we shouldn't use our truth as a sledge-hammer to beat the other person over the head with.

We can let our truth stand for itself without all the "baggage" we tend to feel the need to attach to it.


Tom

Oh Tom, Tom, Tom....I couldn't disagree more with that. God is truth, His Word is truth and that always matters more than people, always. People do matter, no doubt about that but truth should ALWAYS take presidence over people because truth is of God, by God and the very glory of God and that should always come before man.

Grace

 

[twhite982]

Oh Tom, Tom, Tom....I couldn't disagree more with that. God is truth, His Word is truth and that always matters more than people, always. People do matter, no doubt about that but truth should ALWAYS take presidence over people because truth is of God, by God and the very glory of God and that should always come before man.

Grace

Truth YES, but not as a sledge-hammer.

The instances where Jesus was forcefull were rare and from the context of those passages its easy to see why.

That's the exception, NOT the general rule.

But, I can't tell you how to live. Its only you and your conscience and I have no part in that.


Tom

 

[unbound]

No one wants to feel as if they have a thumb on top of them. And the Word should not be used as a tool of strife. It should be offered as hope, and if it then causes offence, then there is no need to worry.

 

[RufustheRed]

Sven1967,

In looking through my post again as you quoted me, I want to apologize to you. I was too blunt and could've presented myself better.

Well, thank you, Tom. Your apology is fully accepted and I'm not even sure that you needed to. I have felt no offense(s) from your post(s). As I posted sometime earlier, I enjoy "talking" with you.

Sorry for this as I was rushing through these threads trying to get a response in to everyone who responded to me.

Not a problem as the samething happens to all of us.

As far as the rascism comments in this thread, true it does fit into the subject matter, but I didn't want to get 30 different subjects going at the same time.
I believe what initiated this subject was speculation about the why in the priesthood ban. I was watching this thread go further away from the initial OP, but I guess at this point its too late.

Probably and I am probably supersensitive about the rascism topic. I have bi-racial grandchildren, some of my best friends in the Army were African-American, why, even my Pastor and his wife are African-American.

I wanted to make one more comment regarding something you've said:

If I were to accept this logic that it seems you're implying to my church it would also disqualify many other churches as well since they also have rascist history within their church as well.
To say that if their were problems within a church, whatever it may be, that this would automatically disqualify that church as God's church is not logical, since ALL church have "skeletons" in their closet.

The problem, as I see it, is that the American church today is STILL the most segregated institution of our culture. One of the primary reasons for that are those "sleketons" you refer to. For example, how many African-Americans are in your quorum of twelve or Quorum of Seventy, or even closer to home: How many black Americans are in your stake presidenticies or bishoprics?
One doesn't have to restrict their observations to the LDS, either. The Southern Baptists are still primarily a "white" church, albeit, the Afro-Americans now probably perfer NOT to worship with those who's ancestors held slaves in shackels.
Honestly, it comes down to the LDS prophets basically mimicking the rest of the country. The primary difference? Most and let me emphasize MOST, American churches had eliminated their racial posture several years before the LDS Prophet stated that he received a revelation regarding the blacks and the priesthood.

We don't have to make excuses, but we do need to understand things in context rather than be quick to condemn.

We need to condemn sinful practices. Timelines are irrelevant. I actually believe that the ban on blacks holdng your priesthood was a good thing. It was a shield of protection from being lead astray.

Did that make sense?
Tom

Of course it did. I said that I understood where you were coming from, I just happen to disagree with your anology. Some people still use churches to promote their bigotry in allowing, and even encouraging, theology of the Identity Movement, the KKK, British Israelism, ect. Ironically, most of them attempt to identify with the "Ten Lost Tribes" misnomer.

Have a nice day, Tom. You're a nice guy

Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

No one wants to feel as if they have a thumb on top of them. And the Word should not be used as a tool of strife. It should be offered as hope, and if it then causes offence, then there is no need to worry.

Good point, unbound. That is exactly how I felt when I was a member of the LDS church. It was the Word at caused me to have hope and eventually became a tool to surgically remove me away from that thumb.

Very good point.

Thanks,
Sven

 

[Rescued One]

Anyone, and I repeat, anyone who claimed or claims that God denies blessings or opportunities based on skin color is a liar. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and be found a liar. Culture is no excuse to add your own prejudices to the word of God! All believers are a royal priesthood.

Rev. 21:8 "....all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

 

[Rescued One]

Telestial Kingdom isn't much better than hell:
These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie." These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81-86, 103-6.)

 

[rnmomof7]

Good point, unbound. That is exactly how I felt when I was a member of the LDS church. It was the Word at caused me to have hope and eventually became a tool to surgically remove me away from that thumb.

Very good point.

Thanks,
Sven

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[MagusAlbertus]

Telestial Kingdom isn't much better than hell:

Actually they admit that everything but being a mini-God is hell... as we Christians call it... they just say it's not that bad... actually they say we'll be 'pleasantly surprised'

 

[elderbell]

We'll be in our own durrest because we will have died in our sins, and have been judged accordingly. While our placement may be unexplainably maginificent, we will also have knowledge of our inability to reach a higher kingdom, save it be you reach the Celestial Kingdom. That is what damnation means...the inability to progress. Not in the "depths of hell" sense that so many people have conformed to.

 

[Rescued One]

We'll be in our own durrest because we will have died in our sins, and have been judged accordingly. While our placement may be unexplainably maginificent, we will also have knowledge of our inability to reach a higher kingdom, save it be you reach the Celestial Kingdom. That is what damnation means...the inability to progress. Not in the "depths of hell" sense that so many people have conformed to.

But your church said whoremongers go to hell for awhile. Then when they get out, they go the Telestial Kingdom. Please tell me what you believe is the purpose of the Holy Spirit visiting these prisoners(They are prisoners because they can't work their way out of the kingdom to which they've been assigned).

 

[emerald Dragon]

(mod hat off..this is a personal observation)

You have said the markings on the temple are your symbols.

All the use of the cross by you proves is your disrespect for the rules and the authority of the forum .

That seems an issue for Mormons (thinking Joseph Smith and Brigham Young here)

What, may I ask, is your reasoning for this post? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. Please clarify it. Thank you.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Rescued One]

That everyone raises his/her hand out of fear for what their peers will think or a scolding from the bishop is of real concern to me. One has to keep his/her temple recommend; should that person say, "I don't agree with this teaching from our prophet of god?"

To explain what it means when we raise our hand to the square in support of something whether its a person being called into a church new position or new doctrine (which hasn't happened in 26 years ). This is a public sign that we will support this person in that calling and more or less show our Christian fellowship.


Some may just go through the motions of raising their hand, but I take it seriously, since I would want the support of others in my calling as well.

Half-heartedness isn't only found in some members of the LDS church its found EVERWHERE, even with those whom you worship with.

I'm guilty of it as well, but as I said I try to make a concious effort to acknowledge what I'm doing and why.

With the entire ward possibly staring at you from behind, who would dare to not raise her hand and be thought of as "on the road to apostacy?" I certainly felt the pressure to conform when I was LDS. I wondered, "Why are we sustaining someone we don't even know?"

"In a world where many false theories and teachings are being promulgated, Latter-day Saint women may walk with the Lord by gaining spiritual strength in following the Lord’s word and learning his gospel found in the standard works of the Church. If she walks with the Lord, she will sustain general and local Church authorities and find spiritual strength." (1971-72 Relief Society Courses of Study, pp.37-38)

 

[funguy]

Anyone, and I repeat, anyone who claimed or claims that God denies blessings or opportunities based on skin color is a liar. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and be found a liar. Culture is no excuse to add your own prejudices to the word of God! All believers are a royal priesthood.

Rev. 21:8 "....all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

excuse me. read your bible again. was the gospel originally taken to everyone?

I believe God loves us all. Our schedule is not necessarily his. Delaying doesn't necessarily equate with denying. I don't think you have to try very hard to understand the dynamics of the situation you are refering to. Besides, being relieved of the responsibility to hold the priesthood could be viewed as a blessing. It's also kind of a moot point. If the LDS priesthood is true, then the policy was appropriate; if it is false, then they were done a favor in keeping them from it.

Where in the bible does it say that all believers are a royal priesthood?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Gwit said

Anyone, and I repeat, anyone who claimed or claims that God denies blessings or opportunities based on skin color is a liar. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and be found a liar. Culture is no excuse to add your own prejudices to the word of God! All believers are a royal priesthood.

Rev. 21:8 "....all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

excuse me. read your bible again. was the gospel originally taken to everyone?

I believe God loves us all. Our schedule is not necessarily his. Delaying doesn't necessarily equate with denying. I don't think you have to try very hard to understand the dynamics of the situation you are refering to. Besides, being relieved of the responsibility to hold the priesthood could be viewed as a blessing. It's also kind of a moot point. If the LDS priesthood is true, then the policy was appropriate; if it is false, then they were done a favor in keeping them from it.

Where in the bible does it say that all believers are a royal priesthood?

funguy can you show us where the Bible says that God denied or denies people blessings or opportunities based on skin color? This was Gwit's argument and you told her to "read her bible again".....are you going to show us where the Bible says that God does this based on skin color?

Grace

 

[funguy]

Gwit said

funguy can you show us where the Bible says that God denied or denies people blessings or opportunities based on skin color? This was Gwit's argument and you told her to "read her bible again".....are you going to show us where the Bible says that God does this based on skin color?

Grace

Never said that he did or does. Reevaluate the spirit of what the LDS church teaches/taught. Will add again that your schedule is not necessarily God's.

 

[funguy]

due to my experience on another thread which was the last straw, I have decide to leave your company. here is a copy of my final post.

This has degenerated into a complete mass of immaturity. Probably my primary purpose for being here was to disallow free pot shots at the church that arise out of the anti's inconsistencies, innacuracies, imprecision and faulty logic. So I guess when they decide they can't fight you any more by doing things like quoting scriptures from the bible as if we were unaware of them implying they are really applicable, then they can poke fun. The problem is I don't think the normal people who I would be protecting are here at all so all I'm really accomplishing is provideing the antis an opportunity to spew more of their poison. I could be doing a lot more useful and productive things with my time. Hasta la Vista.

funguy

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Never said that he did or does. Reevaluate the spirit of what the LDS church teaches/taught. Will add again that your schedule is not necessarily God's.

True, God is much busier than I am and much better at mult-tasking.

Grace