Messianic Judaism and the Trinity

GuardianShua said:

There are historical documents for you questions. Mostly Catholic documents. I'm not allowed to teach against Trinitarianism.

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No there isn't. It's all a spin from conspiracy theorists- check them, because they usually misquote out of context. I've read all that same stuff. Read the ECFs for yourself and see.

Interesting....

I often encounter what I call an 'over-emphasis' on the Trinity.

Personally I never refer to G-d by using that term, although I acknowledge the attempt of this historic doctrine to formulate what is apparent within Scripture regarding the nature, character and authority of G-d, and to protect the Word from being corrupted by those full of the spirit of anti-Messiah.

I never try to call Jesus G-d the Son, although I know He is fully G-d, nor do I ever try to call the Holy Spirit G-d the Holy Spirit, although He is G-d.
There is only one G-d, and the way He has chosen to reveal Himself to us is a constant source of wonder, every thought about Him leads to another and another and I am truly awe-struck...like the Psalmist...6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is too high, I cannot attain to it...and in exploring His glory in my mind and with my heart I can do nothing but worship..Holy Holy Holy is He.

God is faithful...

"Or in other words, the Father is the Son, the Son is the Holy Ghost."

So ....... Who did Jesus pray to in Gethsemane?

And ....... Who did Jesus pray to in John 17????

God does not wear three masks and he never spent the vast majority of eternity alone!!! GOD is Love! Always has been and always will be!

Jesus is the SON of His Father's Love

I can hardly wait until we get to His throne and see all three as one.

Zazal said:

I often encounter what I call an 'over-emphasis' on the Trinity.

Personally I never refer to G-d by using that term, although I acknowledge the attempt of this historic doctrine to formulate what is apparent within Scripture regarding the nature, character and authority of G-d, and to protect the Word from being corrupted by those full of the spirit of anti-Messiah.

I never try to call Jesus G-d the Son, although I know He is fully G-d, nor do I ever try to call the Holy Spirit G-d the Holy Spirit, although He is G-d.
There is only one G-d, and the way He has chosen to reveal Himself to us is a constant source of wonder, every thought about Him leads to another and another and I am truly awe-struck...like the Psalmist...6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is too high, I cannot attain to it...and in exploring His glory in my mind and with my heart I can do nothing but worship..Holy Holy Holy is He.

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You try to break it down, you wind up with 1/3s of anything, it just doesn't work. It's one thing to believe/trust/know it is, it's altogether another thing to attempt to explain it.

ContraMundum said:

No there isn't. It's all a spin from conspiracy theorists- check them, because they usually misquote out of context. I've read all that same stuff. Read the ECFs for yourself and see.

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You need to be more articulate. Not sure what you are saying.

Ely'hoenai ben Abraham said:

SAW-ree!! I'm so used to the up-a-cliff struggle to get Christians to understand the innate Jewishness of the faith that I have grown used to that "format". I've grown to not like very much the WASP Republican American Jesus, that when I put Him in His own culture, the goyim fritz out and look at me like I'm talking Klingon. I hate the satan for ousting our Savior's Jewishness from the faith.

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Now wait jus' a dawgone minute there boy! I'ma WAS (used t' b) P! Guess now I'ma WAS'M ... and most Bible Belt Christians are Democrats, by the way. As for the "American Jesus," we adopted Him from the "Eye-tal-yuns." However, the apparent anger aside, I happen to agree with you (and subsequent posters) that we've done a disservice not only to the Jewish community but to ourselves in Anglicizing a very Hebrew Yeshua. We lost a huge part of the meaning of the gospel; and so much was changed and most of us never even questioned. Sometimes, when I contemplate the enormity of what was taken from us, even I get angry (I have "issues" )

Peace, bro.

Dan

I thought you couldn't talk about the trinity on CF?

Torah Lishmah said:

I thought you couldn't talk about the trinity on CF?

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WE can, you can't.

Hey- I don't make the rules!

Torah Lishmah said:

I thought you couldn't talk about the trinity on CF?

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You can not say anything about the trinity outside Nicene Creed....

Here's what I think, after I spoke to a trinitarian and a modalist fighting with each other on a forum and after hearing Michael Brown
A Jewish Christian Explains the Holy Trinity - YouTube
and reading a Messianic site which said God is Spirit (Holy Spirit), soul (Father, His will be done) and body (Son, Jesus is the Representation of the Father), but they said He was not three Persons and the texts that He would be called Immanuel: God with us (not only the Son with us) and Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). The Son is nowhere in the New Testament called everlasting Father, only in Isaiah.
And I read this in the One New Man Bible:
1:26. Then God said, “We will make mankind in our image, after our likeness and have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, over the cattle, over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” 27. So God created mankind in His own image; He created him in the image of God. He created them male and female.
mankind (plural) in Their (plural) Image and also mankind (plural) in His (single) Image.
So I figured out the Father is one Person in three Persons, like He will be all in all, one Person in billions of people who died to themselves (what Paul wanted to attain), like Jesus died to His own will, His soul died, the soul of the flesh is in the blood (that's translated from Dutch). His Spirit never could have died, otherwise God died and He's eternal.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily
That's why He was called everlasting Father.
Jesus is the perfect example of God being three Persons in one Body, you see and hear only one Person (made up of three):

John 14:
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

I believe verse 9a is the Father speaking and then Jesus speaks.

But the trinitarian told me this couldn't be, because he is thinking of three divided persons like we see now on earth.
We all will be the One New Man (one person) in Christ and still we are more persons, but our soul will be sanctified and we will completely die to self (the one old man) and be in unity like Jesus is with the Father.

Messy said:

Here's what I think, after I spoke to a trinitarian and a modalist fighting with each other on a forum and after hearing Michael Brown
A Jewish Christian Explains the Holy Trinity - YouTube
.

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Good explanation by Dr. Brown on the Trinity aspect

"Jesus is the SON of His Father's Love"

Paul had a wonderful understanding of Who Jesus IS!

Always in the ever present! "Before Abraham was I AM!!!"

I am also a female, mother, believer... yet just one person...
I also have a mind, body and soul... but still just one

Shema

and to be partakers of His Divine Nature - for further: 2 Peter 1 : 4

and to predestine us to conform to His image - Romans 8 : 29

Christ our Life!!! Colossians 3 : 4

and by Whom all things consist - Colossians 1 : 17

ContraMundum said:

I think most people know and accept that Jesus was a Jew. I don't think there are any "shock revelations" about that ready to hit the Churches.

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Is a Jew - Rev 5 : 5

Son of Israel said:

As a monotheistic Jew who accepted Christ, I rejoice in Jesus my Messiah. He was the Son of God of course, but He "ascended" to Father. He is the Bridegroom, we are His Bride. That is most certainly not a barren relationship. He has Children by her.
When He died on the Cross as that O.T. Husband to Israel, Israel was "widowed". Not being associated with any denomination or theological positions, simply led by the Holy Spirit of Christ in receiving His Wisdom out of scripture, I haven't had to contend with the issues that trinitarians seem to always bring forth in "dividing up" God into three persons. That is very confusing to a devout Bible believing Jew. One doesn't need to go into any other language to understand the simplicity in Christ.
Since it is scripturaly and experientially clear to me that Jesus is the Husband to Israel now in the New Covenant, I know Him as my Father. In my relationship with my Christian brothers and sisters, we all together are as His Wife. As such, we become pregnant with "Christ in us" in our relationship to our husband Jesus. We have become "one" in Him.
By His Glorious Holy Spirit of His very own self, He "sows His incorruptibles Seed" into us, His Wife, thereby we contain and bring forth in our lives that "man child", the Son of God. Christ in us
To be baptised into the "Name" of the Lord Jesus Christ means the same thing to us as being baptised into the "Name" of the Father Son Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps
Blessings in Christ!

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It's very confusing to many of us who aren't Jews, too. I must admit I've never understood the "Trinity" or where the concept came from to begin with.
The Bible says to me that there is God the father and Yeshua the son (who I see as a sort of co-regent to whom this planet was given as a gift from the Father) and there is the Holy Spirit whom Yeshua called the comforter.
Where does the idea of a Trinity/three in one God even come from?

yedida said:

I've asked others who post more than once here, so here goes:
Could you PLEASE just type out whatever words you'd like to use? The large majority of folks here really can read properly transliterated words, many can even read the Hebo-rew with vowels and some can read Hebrew without the vowel markings.
If you truly think you're audience does not know the words - THEN DON'T use them. (It doesn't make you more spiritual, it just makes for silliness.)
Th-ose lo-o-ng wri-ten out TRANS-lit-er-A-she-ons are VE-ry DIF-i-cult to reed.
Todah rabbah!!

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Amen!