Messianic History

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Absolutely you do if you are God! He is before time and outside of time. God has no mother because he has no creation. However, Yeshua was born, so He would have a mother, and being both God and Man (I know you do not believe this), Mary was the "God Bearer", because she bore God in her womb (that is what Theotokos means). Also, Yeshua being both God and Man, being born of Mary, she would be His mother. Yes there are no other gods besides the One True God, and Yeshua is part of that Echad with His Father.

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Ok, and I guess that means you will not answer my two specific questions, clearly and one by one?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yes there are no other gods besides the One True God, and Yeshua is part of that Echad with His Father.

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Why then does God not say "there is no God besides us", instead of saying there is "no God besides me"?

So if Jesus God talks to Father God it is really more of a ventriloquist act, since they are one God, but still talk to each other?

Alex Tennent said:

Why then does God not say "there is no God besides us", instead of saying there is "no God besides me"?

So if Jesus God talks to Father God it is really more of a ventriloquist act, since they are one God, but still talk to each other?

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He does in Genesis...let US make man in OUR image. Echad. Do you not speak with your Father, who you share the same essence with? Same thing. So in Isaiah 44:6, who is speaking? Because Yeshua said the same about Himself...

Alex Tennent said:

And why then does "Jesus God" specifically tell us that his Father is the only true God, if Jesus God is also a true God?

NAS John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.

Ok, those are two very clear straightforward questions, please answer them directly and clearly, and then I will answer two questions from you.

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Answered #1 in the other post.

#2. He also said a few verses later "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." If he was with the Father and they shared Glory BEFORE THE WORLD WAS...you figure it out!

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

He does in Genesis...let US make man in OUR image. Echad. Do you not speak with your Father, who you share the same essence with? Same thing. So in Isaiah 44:6, who is speaking? Because Yeshua said the same about Himself...

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So HaDerekh do you believe all the great prophets like Moses and David were wrong? They all believed and taught that there was one God. Moses spoke with God face to face, but he never taught that God was really three in one (a "Trinity"). King David was a man after God's own heart, but he never believed in a three in one God, otherwise he would have told us. Same with Isaiah, when God spoke through him and he penned those scriptures that there was one God, and no other, was he wrong, and that there are three who are each God, but who somehow make up the one "three in one" God? So all these great men of God were wrong, but Roman Emperor Constantine brought us the truth of the Nicean Creed, that each of the three are Gods, that make up the one God?

Alex Tennent said:

So HaDerekh do you believe all the great prophets like Moses and David were wrong? They all believed and taught that there was one God. Moses spoke with God face to face, but he never taught that God was really three in one (a "Trinity"). King David was a man after God's own heart, but he never believed in a three in one God, otherwise he would have told us. Same with Isaiah, when God spoke through him and he penned those scriptures that there was one God, and no other, was he wrong, and that there are three who are each God, but who somehow make up the one "three in one" God? So all these great men of God were wrong, but Roman Emperor Constantine brought us the truth of the Nicean Creed, that each of the three are Gods, that make up the one God?

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We can only believe in what has been revealed! It could have been Yeshua who spoke to Moses. Yeshua Himself said "Before Abraham was I AM". He also said Abraham was glad to see His day.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

We can only believe in what has been revealed! It could have been Yeshua who spoke to Moses. Yeshua Himself said "Before Abraham was I AM". He also said Abraham was glad to see His day.

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All of the scriptures you bring have to be interpreted within the existing Jewish idioms that they were spoken in. They are all very easy to explain within the Jewish understanding that there was one god, and "none beside" Him (not "none besides them"). The verses you bring such as "let us make man in our image" (Gen 1:26) are all explained in Chapter 8 of my book if you are interested to check that out. Here is the link:
http://themessianicfeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TMF_Course_8.pdf

Alex Tennent said:

All of the scriptures you bring have to be interpreted within the existing Jewish idioms that they were spoken in. They are all very easy to explain within the Jewish understanding that there was one god, and "none beside" Him (not "none besides them"). The verses you bring such as "let us make man in our image" (Gen 1:26) are all explained in Chapter 8 of my book if you are interested to check that out. Here is the link:
http://themessianicfeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TMF_Course_8.pdf

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Yeah, I know, 1000s of theologians for the last 2000 yrs are wrong and your book is correct.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeah, I know, 1000s of theologians for the last 2000 yrs are wrong and your book is correct.

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haha, I do appreciate your sense of humor!

Well I guess we do not see eye to eye on these things. But to summarize, your main points from our discussions are as follows:

1. The day Friday, is also the "first day since" Friday.

2. There is only one God, but Jesus God, Holy Spirit God and Father God are each God by them selves, and they somehow talk to each other, but there are not three Gods (because more than one God is wrong), but these three Gods make up the one God, so there is only one God.

Would you agree that is your position?

Alex Tennent said:

haha, I do appreciate your sense of humor!

Well I guess we do not see eye to eye on these things. But to summarize, your main points from our discussions are as follows:

1. The day Friday, is also the "first day since" Friday.

2. There is only one God, but Jesus God, Holy Spirit God and Father God are each God by them selves, and they somehow talk to each other, but there are not three Gods (because more than one God is wrong), but these three Gods make up the one God, so there is only one God.

Would you agree that is your position?

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No, those are YOUR interpretations of my positions. I see you have a sense of humor too

I got saved and Spirit filled in a Pentecostal Holiness church. I thought that if I gave my heart and soul to this church that I would be in revival until the rapture came. Well... The rapture never got here and the revivals went away. I knew I could not rely on the wisdom of others for help so I took to the Virginia Tech library. I could see distinct changes in the times and the seasons. I have come to believe that these churches came about as seven...

Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Messianics.
Smyrna - Martyr - The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Foxes has the persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

(The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20)

It seems that the Messianic flock was scattered with the Roman persecutions. I find many old timers in these Virginia mountains who talk about the 'old time religion' as if everyone got off Noah's ark John Wesley Methodist. I just smile and let them speak. But deep down I know the history and plight of the people who have first dibs at the old time religion, the Messianic Jews. I also grieve inside knowing the mistreatment's that have occurred through history.

I think though that the future of the Messianic Jews looks great. I would imagine growth in the Messianic church and would look for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38, maybe even to the point of reestablishing Jewish borders from the Euphrates to the Nile River.

I believe that we are in Laodicean times in which the focus on doctrinal issues does not seem to matter as in times past. Students at Virginia Tech will go to church for need of fellowship and not pay a whole lot of attention to the shingle outside the building.

It is interesting that the text uses the phrase "simply complete Jews" for those early believers, and dismisses them from being believers even for using the old testament, and using Hebrew still. Belief in the Messiah who came then is not enough, according to what is said. Those with that perspective apparently drifted further from truth themselves.

visionary said:

Most Christians I think are aware of the Messianic history of the church in the first century.

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? Where did you get this idea ?
Sorry I didn't get past this sentence in the OP.
Very few Christians or anyone else I've met in person or online
are aware of the Messianic history of the ekklesia in the first century,
or
in the second, third, fourth, and so on....

visionary said:

Most of the first century is told in the new testament.

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WONDERFUL AND TRUTH.

but most 'Christians' have denied it for over a thousand years, and have opposed Yeshua, for a long, long time,
and
few (compared to the many on the wide road to destruction) know or read the Bible.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeah, I know, 1000s of theologians for the last 2000 yrs are wrong and your book is correct.

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When they all read through a glass of theology, of course thousands
of theologians could all be wrong. They interpret scriptures using
something other than the bible itself.

pat34lee said:

They interpret scriptures using
something other than the bible itself.

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"interpreting" starts in error. How could it ever bear good fruit then!?!?

the ekklesia born again in Yeshua, by the Father's Will from Heaven(not by man's will and NOT by man's interpretation and NOT by demonic interpretation)
are living as one in Him,
living in union in Him. (TODAY). Exactly as Yeshua prayed us to be.
JOHN 17