Messiah and the Covenant

[ananda]

If you have the nature of Jesus, you will have no desire to sin, not because you "keep" the law, but because you have a Divine Nature whose desire is for righteousness!

What is your definition of sin? My definition of sin is disobedience to the law:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1Jn 3:4 (cf Num 15:31, 1Sa 15:24, 2Ch 24:20, etc)

 

[JLB777]

What is your definition of sin? My definition of sin is disobedience to the law:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1Jn 3:4 (cf Num 15:31, 1Sa 15:24, 2Ch 24:20, etc)

My definition of sin is disobedience to what God tells you to do.

Here is what The Lord told Adam - "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."


The Law for Adam was - but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat.

The same Lord that spoke to Adam says -

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


The very same Lord spoke to Abraham saying -

"I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

Which is to say Walk in My Presence or Walk with Me!

The very same Lord says -

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

The commandments of The Lord are relationship, not trying to keep rules.


Come to Me.

Abide in Me.

Walk with Me.

Walk before me.

Eat from the tree of Life.

These are His Commandments. To disobey these are sin!

The real question is why do you search the scriptures, ever partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

His commandment is as the scriptures say - abide in Me, for without me you can do nothing.

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Jesus had a living relationship with The Father whereby He saw what The father was doing and heard what The Father was saying, everyday as daily manna.

And so it should be with us.

For it is written - man shall not live by bread alone but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God!


Jesus said - In my name you shall cast out devils.

Do you obey that commandment!


JLB

 

[Clare73]

Then said Yehoshua unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things ... For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak ... Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.- Jn 8:28, Jn 12:49, Jn 14:10

Messiah's commandments are not to be distinguished from the Father's commandments. Messiah was the "mouth" of YHWH. Everything Messiah said, is to be considered the Words of YHWH.

I couldn't have said it better.

The following words of Christ are the Father's commandment, what he should say and what he should speak.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command. . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father." (Jn 14:15, 21).

And what are the commands the Father gave him to speak?

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (Jn 13:34).

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (not if you devote yourselves to written regulations). (Jn 13:35)

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (Jn 15:12)

"This is my command: Love each other." (Jn 15:17)

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." (Lk 6:27-28)

The commands the Father gave Christ to speak are the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), which is love (Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10),
and because the Father gave them to him to speak, they are the law of God (1Co 9:21), of which John speaks.

And the law of Christ, which is the law of God (1Co 9:21), upholds the law of Moses (Ro 13:8-10), minus its curse on transgression of it (Dt 27:26).

There really can't be much more to say here on the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8).

 

[Clare73]

Do I need a written law to understand that I should obey the Sabbath? Did Adam and Eve need a spoken law to understand that they should not eat from the Tree?

The Sabbath has been fulfilled in Christ.
He is our Sabbath, our rest from good works to earn favor with God.

The Sabbath observance of rest was a shadow of Christ, our eternal rest from works to please God.

It is a weakness and defect to cling to the shadow when the reality has come.

 

[ananda]

My definition of sin is disobedience to what God tells you to do ... The commandments of The Lord are relationship, not trying to keep rules ... If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. ... You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jo 2:3-6

 

[ananda]

And what are the commands the Father gave [Messiah] to speak?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you are trying to distinguish between YHWH's commandments, and Messiah's commandments; and that we are only to obey Messiah's commandments.

If so, I would disagree:

• YHWH said ... I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. - Deu 18:18
• Messiah stated: "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." Jn 12:49
• Messiah also stated: "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." - Jn 6:38

There is no distinction between Messiah's commandments, and the Father's commandments. They are one and the same, from the same, single source.

 

[ananda]

The Sabbath has been fulfilled in Christ. He is our Sabbath, our rest from good works to earn favor with God. The Sabbath observance of rest was a shadow of Christ, our eternal rest from works to please God. It is a weakness and defect to cling to the shadow when the reality has come.

The disciples came to Messiah on the mount of Olives, and asked Him "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He answered, "... pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day ..." Mt 24:20

Messiah clearly implied that the Sabbath will continue to be observed by His faithful believers until the end of the world.

 

[JLB777]

The disciples came to Messiah on the mount of Olives, and asked Him "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He answered, "... pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day ..." Mt 24:20

Messiah clearly implied that the Sabbath will continue to be observed by His faithful believers until the end of the world.

What that is implying is there will be Jewish people in Jerusalem observing Jewish religious customs during the time that the Temple is rebuilt and so also observing Jewish Temple Sacrifices.

Because they are observing Temple sacrifices does that validate the practice?

I think not!

Wake Up!

JLB

 

[ananda]

What that is implying is there will be Jewish people in Jerusalem observing Jewish religious customs during the time that the Temple is rebuilt and so also observing Jewish Temple Sacrifices. Because they are observing Temple sacrifices does that validate the practice? I think not! Wake Up! JLB

Thus saith YHWH, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying, YHWH hath utterly separated me from His people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. For thus saith YHWH unto the eunuchs that keep My sabbaths, and choose the things that please Me, and take hold of My covenant; Even unto them will I give in Mine house and within My walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to YHWH, to serve him, and to love the name of YHWH, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant; Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Adonay YHWH which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. Isa 56:1-8

 

[JLB777]

Thus saith YHWH, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying, YHWH hath utterly separated me from His people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. For thus saith YHWH unto the eunuchs that keep My sabbaths, and choose the things that please Me, and take hold of My covenant; Even unto them will I give in Mine house and within My walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to YHWH, to serve him, and to love the name of YHWH, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant; Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Adonay YHWH which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. Isa 56:1-8

Yes, we know all the old testament scriptures that speak of The Sabbath.

Please don't try and change the subject at hand, which is Jews who are keeping the Sabbath, in Jerusalem, during Daniel's 70th week, while there are re-instituted Temple Sacrifices taking place.

I have no doubt the Jewish people will be keeping the Sabbath.

Now please answer my question -

Just because animal sacrifices are taking place in Jerusalem in the Temple that is about to be rebuilt, DOES THAT VALIDATE ANIMAL SACRIFICES AS BEING A LEGITIMATE SACRIFICE FOR SINS?

YES OR NO?


JLB

 

[ananda]

Yes, we know all the old testament scriptures that speak of The Sabbath. Please don't try and change the subject at hand, which is Jews who are keeping the Sabbath, in Jerusalem, during Daniel's 70th week, while there are re-instituted Temple Sacrifices taking place. I have no doubt the Jewish people will be keeping the Sabbath. Now please answer my question

You err, not knowing YHWH & Yehoshua Messiah's Way of Salvation. The Covenant of salvation was made by YHWH exclusively with Israel and Israelites. YHWH also welcomes Gentiles who take hold of that Covenant to sojourn as believers with Israel. Those Gentiles who join themselves to YHWH, He includes them in the same responsibilities and blessings which Israelites have and hold under The Covenant.

Messiah came exclusively to the house of Israel, bringing the same Message of The Covenant instituted by YHWH: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mt 15:24 After Messiah completed His witness and offer to Israel, He then sent His apostles to all the (Gentile) nations to invite those who desire to sojourn as believers with believing Israel, for their salvation: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Jn 10:16 So, for these reasons, it is both true that 1) Yehoshua was only Israel's Messiah, and that 2) Gentiles are also saved by Yehoshua. Messiah's Message was exactly the same as the Message and Way given by YHWH in the so-called "Old" Testament.

Just because animal sacrifices are taking place in Jerusalem in the Temple that is about to be rebuilt, DOES THAT VALIDATE ANIMAL SACRIFICES AS BEING A LEGITIMATE SACRIFICE FOR SINS? YES OR NO?

Again, you err, not knowing the Scriptures. There are other reasons to offer burnt sacrifices to YHWH other than for our sins.

 

[Clare73]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you are trying to distinguish between YHWH's commandments, and Messiah's commandments; and that we are only to obey Messiah's commandments.

The following, to which you are referring, is the unedited Word of God.

These are the commands God gave him to speak.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command. . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father." (Jn 14:15, 21).

And what are the commands the Father gave him to speak?

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (Jn 13:34).

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (not if you devote yourselves to written regulations). (Jn 13:35)

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (Jn 15:12)

"This is my command: Love each other." (Jn 15:17)

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." (Lk 6:27-28)

What the Word of God shows is that

• Christ gave law with the same authority as the Father gave law,
• and the law of Christ which he gave is the law of God, they are one, they are the same.

The commands the Father gave Christ to speak are the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), which is love (Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10),

and because the Father gave them to him to speak, they are the law of God (1Co 9:21), of which John speaks.

It's all pretty clear, don't you think.

 

[Clare73]

The disciples came to Messiah on the mount of Olives, and asked Him "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" He answered, "... pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day ..." Mt 24:20

Those two verses are 17 verses apart, and where vv.15-22 are a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Messiah clearly implied that the Sabbath will continue to be observed by His faithful believers until the end of the world.

Messiah is not referring to the end of the world here, he is referring to observance of the Sabbath at the end of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

The Word of God states that the Sabbath was a shadow of the reality we now have in Christ (Col 2:16-17), where we rest from all works to earn favor with God.

 

[JLB777]

You err, not knowing YHWH & Yehoshua Messiah's Way of Salvation. The Covenant of salvation was made by YHWH exclusively with Israel and Israelites. YHWH also welcomes Gentiles who take hold of that Covenant to sojourn as believers with Israel. Those Gentiles who join themselves to YHWH, He includes them in the same responsibilities and blessings which Israelites have and hold under The Covenant.

Messiah came exclusively to the house of Israel, bringing the same Message of The Covenant instituted by YHWH: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mt 15:24 After Messiah completed His witness and offer to Israel, He then sent His apostles to all the (Gentile) nations to invite those who desire to sojourn as believers with believing Israel, for their salvation: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Jn 10:16 So, for these reasons, it is both true that 1) Yehoshua was only Israel's Messiah, and that 2) Gentiles are also saved by Yehoshua. Messiah's Message was exactly the same as the Message and Way given by YHWH in the so-called "Old" Testament.

Again, you err, not knowing the Scriptures. There are other reasons to offer burnt sacrifices to YHWH other than for our sins.

Thats what I thought. You used a scripture that blew up in your face and now you won't answer a simple direct straight forward question.


JLB

 

[ananda]

Thats what I thought. You used a scripture that blew up in your face and now you won't answer a simple direct straight forward question. JLB

I stand by my quotation of Isaiah 56, and I answered your question. I do not respond to goading, nor shouting.

 

[ananda]

What the Word of God shows is that Christ gave law with the same authority as the Father gave law, and the law of Christ which he gave is the law of God, they are one, they are the same.

The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.

1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.

All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.

Agreed?

 

[Clare73]

The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.

1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.

All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.

Agreed?

Almost. . .the Law of Messiah is the Law of the Father.

 

[JLB777]

I stand by my quotation of Isaiah 56, and I answered your question. I do not respond to goading, nor shouting.

Your scripture concerning the Sabbath is invalid!

The Sabbath is a shadow, the reality is Christ, who is our rest!

The New Covenant in His blood is for all the nations of the earth.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

When the new Temple is built, will you participate in the sacrifice of animals?

http://www.templeinstitute.org/


JLB

 

[ananda]

Originally Posted by netzarim

The Law of Messiah is the law of the Father; they are one and the same. The Law of Messiah, and the Law of the Father is the law of Love.

1. Love for Elohim, and
2. Love for neighbors.

All commandments, whether Messiah's or the Father's, fall under one or both of those two categories.

Agreed?
​

Almost. . .the Law of Messiah is the Law of the Father.

That's what I wrote above, as I highlighted.

 

[Clare73]

That's what I wrote above, as I highlighted.

If they are one, if they are the same, without the "and," but with the "is," then we are in agreement!