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Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, is yet to happen. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean we won't receive atonement. Those who walk in His narrow Way will indeed receive atonement. It's just something we're waiting for.
Yes, there is ... it involves repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat, etc. (FYI, I believe we are currently under the "Old" Covenant, which has been renewed by Messiah.)So there is no atonement under the Old Covenant.
The final atonement will happen on a future Yom Kippur ... Messiah is our atonement, and if we continue to walk in trust, repentance, and obedience, we have that guaranteed atonement to look forward to.And there is no atonement yet under the New Covenant. So your sins have separated you from God and there is no remedy? Excuse me but that's a really strange, and depressing, doctrine. In Christ, Pilgrimer
Wedding supper always happen after the wedding.. it will be part of the things that happen during the 1000 year break.The Day of Atonement was the day when the High Priest went into the Holiest with the blood of bulls and goats and made atonement for sin. Are you saying Jesus has not fulfilled this important ministry?
And I disagree, Yeshua is indeed married, and his wife is all those who have been joined with Jesus in spirit.
"What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh? But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit ... what? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price."
The bride price with which we were purchased was the precious blood of Jesus.
The means by which we are joined in spirit with Jesus is by partaking of his body and blood.
That's why it is called the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb."
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
We are the betrothed, or engaged. We are the virgins waiting with our lamps filled and lit for the day and the hour which no one knows (Yom Teruah) for the bridegroom to return, for His final atonement (Yom Kippur) and our marriage and eternal rest (Sukkot).And I disagree, Yeshua is indeed married, and his wife is all those who have been joined with Jesus in spirit.
so there is a confusion regarding atonement I see.. Let's remember that God has appointed a Day of Judgment and it is called the Day of Atonement... There are those by faith with the sacrifice and Priest in the temple and those who just see what is outside in front of the temple... Choose this day whom you will serve.So there is no atonement under the Old Covenant.
And there is no atonement yet under the New Covenant.
So your sins have separated you from God and there is no remedy?
Excuse me but that's a really strange, and depressing, doctrine.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Yes, there is ... it involves repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat, etc. (FYI, I believe we are currently under the "Old" Covenant, which has been renewed by Messiah.)
The final atonement will happen on a future Yom Kippur ... Messiah is our atonement, and if we continue to walk in trust, repentance, and obedience, we have that guaranteed atonement to look forward to.
Passover: We must trust Messiah and enter into His Way, taking His shed blood upon ourselves.
Law of God needs no atonement.. It is perfect as it is.Explain this to me.
You said there is atonement under the Old Covenant through repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat.
But you also said Messiah is (present tense) our atonement.
But you also said there is a future atonement.
So thats three atonements, none of which includes the atonement of the Law, and only one of which includes the atonement of the Gospel.
Where did the other two atonements come from?
And also, you said Messiah is (present tense) our atonement. How exactly did Jesus become our atonement?
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
P.S. The goat for Azazel was only half of the Day of Atonement sacrifice. What about the goat for Jehovah? The one which was actually sacrificed in the Temple and whose blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat?
Understood.
You are among those of Christianity who believe that Paul was a fraud, a hypocrite and a chameleon.
Question: How can someone be a BONDSERVANT of Messiah if they are worried and concerned about what men think of them?
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ. Galatians 1:10
Its kind of ironic that you believe Paul was guilty of the very same thing he rebuked Peter of.
In Galatians 2 Peter was being a hypocrite along with some other believing Jews, separating themselves from the Gentiles when the circumcision party was around, and associating themselves with the Gentiles when they werent.
Paul took Peter aside and rebuked him for behaving like a sinner! Peter was not being straightforward about the gospel. He was being wishy-washy! The exact same thing youre accusing Paul of.
In 1 Corinthians 11:1 Paul tells us to Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Do you believe Paul could truly be a bondservant of Messiah, if he didnt walk in the same manner that Messiah walked?
Im sorry but this is a bogus statement, no offense. Pauls own testimony?
Pauls own testimony was Acts 24:14; I confess that I believe EVERYTHING that agrees with the Law of God.
Pauls own testimony was Acts 20:21; I walk orderly and keep the Law of God
Pauls own testimony was Acts 25:8; I have committed no offense against the Law of the Temple.
Pauls own testimony was Romans 3:31: Do we nullify the Law by our salvation? God forbid, we ESTABLISH the Law.
Pauls own testimony was Romans 7:22: I joyfully concur with the Law of God
Pauls own testimony was Romans 7:12, 14, 25: I serve the spiritual, righteous and good Law of God.
Just five CLEAR confessions from Paul himself, that completely disagree with your statement.
Paul NEVER claimed to be free from the obedience of Gods Instructions. (If you want to talk about your interpretations of phrases such as under the law and works of the law we can Scripturally discuss those)
what a hypocrite.
Oh and under the law does NOT mean obedient to the Law of God. Those who are saved are NOT under the law. Think about that for a second.
To get into the physical/spiritual aspects of the Law would be way to lengthy and frankly off topic
There is a context behind most of Pauls writing.
Not sure if you knew this from your studies, but Paul was dealing with a Gentile crowd that was forced or coerced into misusing the Law and its commandments. He was constantly having to teach them the deeper meaning of the commandments, because many were outwardly circumcising without even understanding the commandment of circumcision, let alone the spiritual meanings behind each commandment.
according to your interpretation of that passage.
If I remember correctly, the Spirit leads us in ALL Truth.
Psalm 119:142 and 151 tells us that Gods Law and His Commandments ARE TRUTH.
Do you mean to tell me that once you are saved, the Spirit leads you in a truth OTHER than His Instructions?
We might be led by different spirits, if thats the case.
Question:
If I open up an Trigonometry book and try teaching 9th grade trig
Then Im followed by the greatest mathematician who has ever lived teaches the same 9th grade trig
Will or will not the entire class be blown away by the depth, breadth and substance that the mathematician will bring to the class, as opposed to my methods and teaching?
Same thing with Messiah. He IS the PERFECT TORAH TEACHER. He didnt preach from a different Torah in the sermon on the mount. He CORRECTLY taught the Torah of His Father!
Do you honestly believe that God didnt have lusting in mind when He gave the adultery and coveting and envying commandments? Are you kidding me?
Messiah simply brought out the COMPLETE meaning to the Torah of God. This is what true fulfilling the Law means. Its correctly interpreting and teaching the Torah!
Oh brother, are you seriously bringing up a mans tradition?
Both Mark 7 and Matthew 15 make it crystal clear that this was mans tradition!
Nowhere in the Torah does God command this command.
Next.
WOW! Talk about twisting Scripture.
Nowhere in Matthew 5:20 does God mention a righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the law.
Its kinda scary the means that you are using to come to your teaching. Deuteronomy 13:1-6 keeps coming up in my mind with each word you say on here.
Netzarim already addressed this mistake you made so I wont repeat it.
Stop adding to Gods Word to try and prove your point. Its kind of blasphemous. (Deut 4:2)
Read Mark 7:8 and the entire chapter of Matthew 23 while youre at it. You are in for a shocking!
Im simply skimming now because as this post goes on Its error upon error.
This new covenant you speak of, will have the SAME LAW of God written on the hearts and minds of the partakers. GO figure.
Read Ezekiel 36:25-28 and tell me what the Spirit of God will cause us to walk in
Law of God needs no atonement.. It is perfect as it is.
Atonement is the moment of reconciliation between man and God. The services give the picture of the time when it will all go down.. What happens in the heavenly temple is what goes on in the Most Holy. What happens on earth is what is seen by the congregation while this all goes on... Check out Rev 11. You will notice in verse 1 and 2... two different groups... and it all happens because of their theology at the time.Mankind needs atonement. That is the topic of discussion.
Please answer the question, if you can?
JLB
Law of God needs no atonement.. It is perfect as it is.
Yes, there is ... it involves repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat, etc. (FYI, I believe we are currently under the "Old" Covenant, which has been renewed by Messiah.)
The final atonement will happen on a future Yom Kippur ... Messiah is our atonement, and if we continue to walk in trust, repentance, and obedience, we have that guaranteed atonement to look forward to.
As long as I "believe in Jesus," it's ok for me to break the 10 commandments, correct?
Law of God needs no atonement.. It is perfect as it is.
Brilliant question.
Now on to the answers!
Atonement is the moment of reconciliation between man and God.
The services give the picture of the time when it will all go down.. What happens in the heavenly temple is what goes on in the Most Holy.
You said there is atonement under the Old Covenant through repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat. But you also said Messiah is (present tense) our atonement. But you also said there is a future atonement. So thats three atonements, none of which includes the atonement of the Law, and only one of which includes the atonement of the Gospel. Where did the other two atonements come from? And also, you said Messiah is (present tense) our atonement. How exactly did Jesus become our atonement?
But you stated that atonement is available under a renewed Old Covenant through repentance, fasting, prayer, abstaining from work, and a scapegoat. So why exactly do we need to take the shed blood of Jesus upon ourselves? In Christ, Pilgrimer
Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the main prophecy regarding the coming of the New Covenant. In verse 34, we see that the conditions described there have not been fulfilled yet: we are still teaching one another, and not everyone knows YHWH. We are not in the period of the New Covenant.It sounds like some of these guys are trying to straddle a fence between the Old Way and the New Way. We must each make a decision, are you going to put your faith in reconciliation with God through the Old Covenant, or the New ... in atonement by the blood of bulls and goats, or atonement by the blood of Jesus? It's a simple choice, however much men try to add on burdensome doctrines that make void the Gospel. In Christ, Pilgrimer
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