Men, do you feel comfortable in the role of leader?

MehGuy · Jul 14, 2018

blackribbon said:
Well, I hope the same man has a plan to protect his family from danger...since we no longer run family businesses, yes, it requires more effort to keep a family connected.

As for who women are attracted to...I think that since all men don't fall in the same category, chances are who women are attracted to doesn't fit in the same category. You seem hyperfocused on certain kind of man that you think all women are attracted to. This isn't true anymore than that men only like super thin ditsy model types....

I think women enjoy the gentle aspect of men too, but if you want to talk raw primitive attraction power I think it often gets quite dark. But hey.. I spend most of my time in the bdsm dating scene, and that's what women claim to like deep down. Maybe I'm just hanging around that far end of the spectrum.

Doesn't help that I grew up with the Lifetime Channel playing most of the hours. With films centering around toxic men and women being victims, all seemingly played in an enjoyable indulging light. Then as I got older I was met with feminists dominating the media talking about "toxic masculinity" pouring down every aspect of our society. With an hysteria that seems similar to anti-Semitic people and their obsessions with Jews causing every ill. It's hard for me not to think they are just airing their fantasies around and that many women are facing a psychological crisis where their men don't feel masculine enough and they don't feel feminine enough.

blackribbon · Jul 15, 2018

MehGuy said:
I think women enjoy the gentle aspect of men too, but if you want to talk raw primitive attraction power I think it often gets quite dark. But hey.. I spend most of my time in the bdsm dating scene, and that's what women claim to like deep down. Maybe I'm just hanging around that far end of the spectrum.

Doesn't help that I grew up with the Lifetime Channel playing most of the hours. With films centering around toxic men and women being victims, all seemingly played in an enjoyable indulging light. Then as I got older I was met with feminists dominating the media talking about "toxic masculinity" pouring down every aspect of our society. With an hysteria that seems similar to anti-Semitic people and their obsessions with Jews causing every ill. It's hard for me not to think they are just airing their fantasies around and that many women are facing a psychological crisis where their men don't feel masculine enough and they don't feel feminine enough.

Let me reassure you that most women do not have those fantasies. That is a select and small group. There is a reason why it isn't mainstream.

exitstageright · Jul 15, 2018

blackribbon said:
I said HAPPY marriages. Most men aren't happy in marriages if they never feel heard.

Now there are marriages where the man does appear to every thing his wife wants because he actually wants to do those things....and they aren't seeing the things she is doing because he requests that he do them. In a happy marriage, a couple does want to use their off work time to actually see each other so the turn down friends more often. Unfortunately, it is the friends that try to damage the relationship by calling a guy things like "hen pecked" or worse and calling the woman to stop being controlled by a man.

(And if I remember correctly, you said money and her battle with a mental illness were the primary reason that you divorced your second wife, not that you felt emasculated by her need to lead the marriage.)

Actually,my second wife divorced me,after she received papers that I was going to divorce her.After that,she told the people at our church that she had to divorce me. Now, people at my church tell me," S….I am still against a non-biblical divorce. But, now I understand why you wanted to leave C....."They had some bad experiences with me ex lately. I told them, "Now, you know what I had to put up with for six years."

exitstageright · Jul 15, 2018

blackribbon said:
Let me reassure you that most women do not have those fantasies. That is a select and small group. There is a reason why it isn't mainstream.

I have heard a female therapist say just the opposite. One therapist,who is female,told me."When you act nice to a woman,you are turing off the "Faucet of her arousal"That is one of the reasons why women like "Bad Boys". Because,Bad Boys always have their "Faucets" turned on "full". When a woman really knows a man,and wants a man.She would not mind when he pulls her hair and gets rough with her. Many women fantasize about their men(whom they know well) pushing them up against the wall,and pressing hard up against them before making love to them. Now, men, please do not do this on the first date!"
Now, I am not lying.That is exactly what she told us men. She also said,'Stop being so d..... nice! If you do not stop being too nice,you will always get "Friend Zoned".

timewerx · Jul 15, 2018

exitstageright said:
I have heard a female therapist say just the opposite. One therapist,who is female,told me."When you act nice to a woman,you are turing off the "Faucet of her arousal"That is one of the reasons why women like "Bad Boys". Because,Bad Boys always have their "Faucets" turned on "full". When a woman really knows a man,and wants a man.She would not mind when he pulls her hair and gets rough with her. Many women fantasize about their men(whom they know well) pushing them up against the wall,and pressing hard up against them before making love to them. Now, men, please do not do this on the first date!"
Now, I am not lying.That is exactly what she told us men. She also said,'Stop being so d..... nice! If you do not stop being too nice,you will always get "Friend Zoned".

Ironically, many of my recent friends have been "bad boys" as well. They don't break the law or anything, just having bad attitude too often. But they are not evil, far from it.

They have redeeming quality of being confident being themselves (even if being yourself is a bad thing...). They have absolutely no fear of being different or don't care at all which I find very attractive in a person, either boy or girl.

I think you'll find the same thing with "bad girls". They tend to catch more interest and attention.

MehGuy · Jul 16, 2018

Yeah, I've heard from other men who were former nice guys say the recieved more positive attention when they act more like jerks.

Not to mention women telling me that they dislike nice guys and find them boring and not attractive.

Toro · Jul 16, 2018

MehGuy said:
Yeah, I've heard from other men who were former nice guys say the recieved more positive attention when they act more like jerks.

Not to mention women telling me that they dislike nice guys and find them boring and not attractive.

Its not the "nice guy" that women don't like.... its the "lack of backbone".

Im a nice guy, but I have no problem putting my foot down either.

What they like about the bad boy is he has a backbone, not that he treats her like dirt (although there are those women out there that like to be treated like a door mat) but mostly the attraction to the "bad boy" comes with the attraction to a man that isn't afraid to stand when he needs to stand. The nice guy doesnt usually take a stand on anything, cause he thinks that being "nice" is always about trying to please everyone.

Most women will chase the bad boy because they think it will be easier to tame a bad boy than to teach a nice guy how to stand.

ThisIsMe123 · Jul 16, 2018

Toro said:
Its not the "nice guy" that women don't like.... its the "lack of backbone".

Im a nice guy, but I have no problem putting my foot down either.

What they like about the bad boy is he has a backbone, not that he treats her like dirt (although there are those women out there that like to be treated like a door mat) but mostly the attraction to the "bad boy" comes with the attraction to a man that isn't afraid to stand when he needs to stand. The nice guy doesnt usually take a stand on anything, cause he thinks that being "nice" is always pleasing everyone.

Most women will chase the bad boy because they think it will be easier to tame a bad boy than to teach a nice guy how to stand.

The problem is, people are re-defining the words "nice guy". They are now associating "Nice guy" with something that's bad. That, they are not really "nice", and are just exploitative louts that are trying to get their way.

They also associate with a guy w/o a back bone. Not sure how they tied the two together.

It is no longer the LITERAL definition anymore.

Then there are the women that complain, "Why can I not meet a nice guy?" when she's clearly been passing over offers for dates from them.

Ajoj · Jul 16, 2018

What a great question.
For big part of my life i was passive, last few years im trying to change that.
At home, at work, and when i fail, i just say to myself next time i will do it.
This summer met a great girl, we ended in relationship, but she said she is missing something, few months later, i believe not being leader enough, not taking chances , iniative is what she missed from me, and it sooo bothers me, because as it looks right now i missed my chance with her, but at time i was not in position to realised what i was doing wrong...
So to answer question, me personally still dont feel comfortable in role of the leader, but im much more comfortble in that role than i was 3,4 years ago, and im not stoping until i get to the point when i feel comfortable in thst role...

Toro · Jul 16, 2018

ThisIsMe123 said:
The problem is, people are re-defining the words "nice guy". They are now associating "Nice guy" with something that's bad. That, they are not really "nice", and are just exploitative louts that are trying to get their way.

They also associate with a guy w/o a back bone. Not sure how they tied the two together.

It is no longer the LITERAL definition anymore.

Then there are the women that complain, "Why can I not meet a nice guy?" when she's clearly been passing over offers for dates from them.

Well, that has always been the case..... there will ALWAYS be men out there telling a woman what she wants to hear and pretending to be nice to get what he wants.

Just as there will always be women out there playing the same game on men.

Thats why it takes wisdom and weeding out to sift through the frauds.

IF a woman wants to stick to a belief that all nice guys are weak/players and the only way to go are bad boys. OR IF a man wants to allow past hurts to turn him into a bad boy.... its foolishness but its their free will to do so. Holding on to such foolishness only makes one grow toxic.

Which is why the dating world IS a toxic cesspool. Everyone has been hurt, no one forgives and moves on with life..... so EVERYONE plays the part of the "game" which is a toxin in itself. Even the people that are "real" bring their own level of drama to a new relationship because they REFUSE to let go of the past. New person, new start. Anything less is toxic.

Applekrate · Jul 16, 2018

blackribbon said:
There have been a lot of posts about women submitting to their husbands. My question is how many single men feel comfortable in the role as leader. This means stepping up when there is conflict and taking an active role in finding a fair solution instead of just avoiding conflict. Do you practice leading in your daily life...at your job (within the scope of your role), your family (as in parental & sibling family), and in your church? What kind of things are you doing to increase your experience leading?

Do women see you as a leader who will protect them and their someday children?

To answer- Yes! I am comfortable as a man being a leader ( as the Lord calls me to do ). I was not always that way when younger but, very much that way now. A big part of the change is my faith and understanding of scripture is much deeper and better understood.

You also asked- "Do women see me as a leader'? Yes, very much so.
The Lord gave each gender a role and I know mine. Sadly, I do not see many men that do today and the women 'wear the pants' most of the time. That is not me.

However, there are also places when serving where there is already a leader and we must be followers. I am find doing either one ( while serving ). I can take instructions and be told what to do and simply do it.
I also lead, organize and run different events, some requiring a few dozen people.
Hope I answered your question from the OP. Did not read through the entire thread.

Gnarwhal · Jul 16, 2018

blackribbon said:
I think the one sign of a good leader is the people tend to naturally follow you.

I would add that I think great leaders also know that there are times when the best way to lead is actually to follow.

exitstageright · Jul 16, 2018

Toro said:
Its not the "nice guy" that women don't like.... its the "lack of backbone".

Im a nice guy, but I have no problem putting my foot down either.

What they like about the bad boy is he has a backbone, not that he treats her like dirt (although there are those women out there that like to be treated like a door mat) but mostly the attraction to the "bad boy" comes with the attraction to a man that isn't afraid to stand when he needs to stand. The nice guy doesnt usually take a stand on anything, cause he thinks that being "nice" is always about trying to please everyone.

Most women will chase the bad boy because they think it will be easier to tame a bad boy than to teach a nice guy how to stand.

You do have a point there.

exitstageright · Jul 16, 2018

ThisIsMe123 said:
The problem is, people are re-defining the words "nice guy". They are now associating "Nice guy" with something that's bad. That, they are not really "nice", and are just exploitative louts that are trying to get their way.

They also associate with a guy w/o a back bone. Not sure how they tied the two together.

It is no longer the LITERAL definition anymore.

Then there are the women that complain, "Why can I not meet a nice guy?" when she's clearly been passing over offers for dates from them.

You've got that right!

Chinchilla · Jul 16, 2018

blackribbon said:
There have been a lot of posts about women submitting to their husbands. My question is how many single men feel comfortable in the role as leader. This means stepping up when there is conflict and taking an active role in finding a fair solution instead of just avoiding conflict. Do you practice leading in your daily life...at your job (within the scope of your role), your family (as in parental & sibling family), and in your church? What kind of things are you doing to increase your experience leading?

Do women see you as a leader who will protect them and their someday children?

No I don't can't even lead myself .

timewerx · Jul 16, 2018

MehGuy said:
Yeah, I've heard from other men who were former nice guys say the recieved more positive attention when they act more like jerks.

Not to mention women telling me that they dislike nice guys and find them boring and not attractive.

I don't think women like jerks and a--h either. Nice guys can be jerks too. Women can only like jerks for their money but divorce is not far fetched.

A bad boy attitude is more of a "raw nature" kind of thing. Less talk, more action, less sophistication, more raw attitude. But not all are "bad-bad". Some are actually a nice person deep inside - once you get to know them closely.

blackribbon · Jul 17, 2018

Since we are talking about marriage here, I doubt that any woman is happy when her husband acts like a jerk...and any attention he gets for being that way will likely not be attention he really wants.

There is a huge difference between getting a first date and investing in a good marriage.

MehGuy · Jul 17, 2018

I don't know.. reminds me of this feminist article where she says her man is a selfish jerk.. and she blames society for her liking him that way.

blackribbon · Jul 17, 2018

MehGuy said:
I don't know.. reminds me of this feminist article where she says her man is a selfish jerk.. and she blames society for her liking him that way.

Unless you want to marry a feminist, then don't be looking to feminist articles or opinions to understand how to treat a woman.

And I think this actually backs that even feminists want a man that leads and doesn't follow them instead of a "yes man" who just does whatever they want. They are just starting from a different worldview. The men that do whatever they want are the ones they call "too nice".

blackribbon · Jul 17, 2018

exitstageright said:
I told them, "Now, you know what I had to put up with for six years."

Considering that you picked her, it is sad that you "had to put up" with her for the entire length of your marriage. And if I remember correctly, she has a mental illness which is medical and not just bad behavior.

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