Men, do you feel comfortable in the role of leader?

[blackribbon]

What is symbolic and ironic about this thread is,on Wednesdays,Thursdays,and Fridays,since I retired,I go ballroom dancing at the Senior Centers. Today, Friday, the thirteenth of July,one lady told me that she liked the way I was leading the Fox Trot. Another lady,whom I was dancing the Waltz with,told me tht she liked the way I was leading her.
There is a saying in our society that goes like this. "The only place,that a man is in charge,is on the Dance Floor." When I was growing up,in a Southern Baptist Church,some men told me,"When you grow up,and get married,in order to have a happy marriage,you will have to say two words.These two words are "Yes,...….Baby!" I have heard,from therapists,that the wife sets the emotional tone of a marriage.I guess that means,that in order to have a happy marriage,the husband has to say,"Yes,Dear" many times. "A happy wife is a happy life"

That implies that happy marriages require a wimpy husband. Is that what you see in society?

 

[exitstageright]

That implies that happy marriages require a wimpy husband. Is that what you see in society?

Yes,I do see that in our society.When I wrote about this to an advice columnist,and she agreed with me.I have observed that in general,women do want a confident man.When he is single,she wants him to be like "Superman".But,after she becomes his wife,she wants him to be like "Clark Kent".(Yes,,,Dear! Yes...Dear!) When I was married,for the second time,my married female co-workers would ask me,"Do you always say,"Yes" to your wife?"My male co-workers,who were married, warned me that I should let my wife run things if I want to remain married. I guess that they were right.

 

[ubicaritas]

Merely being comfortable with leadership and finding it natural doesn't mean one is actually competent at leadership.

 

[Willing-heart]

Like anything else, I think one has to comfortable being uncomfortable. We are called to step outside of our comfort zone knowing full well our confidence and trust is in the Lord leading the way. We are to be utterly dependent on God, and we can't go wrong if we look to Christ - The ultimate role model of effective leadership.

https://femiroyalblog.com/2018/01/08/godly-leadership-the-way-up-is-down/

 

[timewerx]

But,after she becomes his wife,she wants him to be like "Clark Kent".(Yes,,,Dear! Yes...Dear!) When I was married,for the second time,my married female co-workers would ask me,"Do you always say,"Yes" to your wife?"My male co-workers,who were married, warned me that I should let my wife run things if I want to remain married. I guess that they were right.

Ironically, Apostle Paul warned about this, even though, he also preached that wives should submit to their husbands.

Maybe Paul also knows it's inevitable.

Although I don't believe in this time that wives should submit to husbands, I also don't like an arrangement where the wife would be deciding on most things like it's gonna be her way in most decisions. An exception I could tolerate that is that she's actually right (best course of action) and we both agreed on it.

 

[blackribbon]

Yes,I do see that in our society.When I wrote about this to an advice columnist,and she agreed with me.I have observed that in general,women do want a confident man.When he is single,she wants him to be like "Superman".But,after she becomes his wife,she wants him to be like "Clark Kent".(Yes,,,Dear! Yes...Dear!) When I was married,for the second time,my married female co-workers would ask me,"Do you always say,"Yes" to your wife?"My male co-workers,who were married, warned me that I should let my wife run things if I want to remain married. I guess that they were right.

I said HAPPY marriages. Most men aren't happy in marriages if they never feel heard.

Now there are marriages where the man does appear to every thing his wife wants because he actually wants to do those things....and they aren't seeing the things she is doing because he requests that he do them. In a happy marriage, a couple does want to use their off work time to actually see each other so the turn down friends more often. Unfortunately, it is the friends that try to damage the relationship by calling a guy things like "hen pecked" or worse and calling the woman to stop being controlled by a man.

(And if I remember correctly, you said money and her battle with a mental illness were the primary reason that you divorced your second wife, not that you felt emasculated by her need to lead the marriage.)

 

[blackribbon]

Merely being comfortable with leadership and finding it natural doesn't mean one is actually competent at leadership.

I agree. People willingly follow a natural leader. And being a good leader doesn't mean that you are leading them to the right places. Hitler was a good leader. He was not a good man. A Christian husband needs to be both a good and willing leader plus a good Christian and a good human being first.

 

[ubicaritas]

Sometimes good leaders are not people that are naturally comfortable as leaders.

 

[blackribbon]

Why do we only picture submission in the view of master and slave? If we go to school, we all submit to the teacher and follow the rules that tell us what we need to do if we want to get a good grade. If we have a job, we submit to the company policies and submit to our direct leadership such as a manager if we want to keep the job. We hopefully have submitted to our parents as children and didn't attempt to be the leader of our childhood home. We submit to our churches by following the norms and even by showing up on time for activities such as church service times. And we all submit on the computers without even thinking about it when we click "I agree and have read all the rules and policies covering the use of this website". We submit to the government every time we stop at a government placed stop sign. And so on. We submit all the time. It shows respect and a willingness to be part of a society or family. It isn't a slave laying at the master's feet who stands over them with a whip.

 

[blackribbon]

Sometimes good leaders are not people that are naturally comfortable as leaders.

I also agree with this. They step up because there is a need or that those around them pressure them to. I would suggest no woman marry a man until he has chosen to step up to being a leader within their relationship and not assume that he will figure things out after you are married and he doesn't have to work to please you anymore.

Also, often a good leader is good at delegating and doesn't always appear to be the obvious leader. But to do that means he is choosing the best person to delegate to and is helping them succeed if they need help. A good husband often delegates decisions like household budget and decisions concerning the children to the wife. He doesn't make the decisions but rather backs her decisions and doesn't micromanage the family.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

What is symbolic and ironic about this thread is,on Wednesdays,Thursdays,and Fridays,since I retired,I go ballroom dancing at the Senior Centers. Today, Friday, the thirteenth of July,one lady told me that she liked the way I was leading the Fox Trot. Another lady,whom I was dancing the Waltz with,told me tht she liked the way I was leading her.
There is a saying in our society that goes like this. "The only place,that a man is in charge,is on the Dance Floor." When I was growing up,in a Southern Baptist Church,some men told me,"When you grow up,and get married,in order to have a happy marriage,you will have to say two words.These two words are "Yes,...….Baby!" I have heard,from therapists,that the wife sets the emotional tone of a marriage.I guess that means,that in order to have a happy marriage,the husband has to say,"Yes,Dear" many times. "A happy wife is a happy life"

LOL....Yeah, I heard a married guy say, "Which would you rather be, right or happy?"

To put it in context, I think it's best to NOT prove the wife wrong, than to live in misery for doing so.

Great, you were right all along, but yet, she's making you sleep in the other room. lol

Yep, hear it all the time. I think those are examples that have kept me single all my life.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

"Do you always say,"Yes" to your wife?"My male co-workers,who were married, warned me that I should let my wife run things if I want to remain married. I guess that they were right.

It's either that, or hope on the MGTOW bandwagon (Men Going Their Own Way).

 

[Noxot]

MGTOW is in my limited experience mostly cancerous though they have some legit concerns. I could see a virtuous guy not looking down on women and still be a part of MGTOW. but MGTOW usually tends to look at women in a negative way though not all of them do.

the lesser submits to the greater because it is in the lessers best interest.

 

[MehGuy]

Curious question.. do you believe leadership is as needed now in a spouse compared to previous centuries? In the past women may have gotten more of a rush and an appreciation for dominate men when times were more violent and harsh. These days dominance and submission seem more like vanity projects.

One strange thing is the lack of bdsm type relationships in recorded history. Even among promiscuous societies like the Roman Empire. It wasn't until the enlightenment and really the late 19th and early 20th centuries where such relationships pick up steam. Perhaps people need to express these needs in more extreme ways to make up for our less turbulent lives?

 

[Miles]

MGTOW is in my limited experience mostly cancerous though they have some legit concerns. I could see a virtuous guy not looking down on women and still be a part of MGTOW. but MGTOW usually tends to look at women in a negative way though not all of them do.

the lesser submits to the greater because it is in the lessers best interest.

They do have some legit concerns, and going your own makes sense. At least until you find a worthy woman.

MGTOW, as a movement, is problematic. Cancerous sounds about right to me. In MGTOW, women are criticized for "riding the c--k carousel", for instance, while men are encouraged to "pump and dump" those very same women. They perpetuate the same behaviors that they claim to be against. Also, they like to talk about how women "hit the wall" at 30, and sometimes even advise against dating women over 25, conveniently forgetting that everybody ages. But the kind of life we lead can make a difference. If you treat a 25 year old right, she'll be a happy (and in many cases fit and attractive) 55 year old 30 years later. Treat her like garbage, however, and you'll wind up with a crabby, worn out, she-beast of a 55 year old. For these reasons and more, the movement doesn't seem very wise or self aware to me. It's tragically flawed, and not something I'd recommend men get involved with. Although there's a lot to be said for going one's own way, when the alternatives are worse, MGTOW isn't the answer.

The way I see it, a good leader leads even when nobody follows, because he's on the right path. He's smart. He knows that being "nice" is superior because he's committed to making the world a better place, and he doesn't back down. He's committed to living a good life, and wants his his future partner to become a happy older woman and not a crabby she-beast. He doesn't waste his time and energy on the ungrateful or the flighty. Instead, he cuts a path toward a better life. To become a better version of himself, and maybe to be a good match for a like-minded woman, however imperfect the two of them may be.

These are the people who hold civilization together, whether they're the bosses or the employees. Whether they appear on the surface to be dominant or submissive, they forge ahead and collectively bend society to their will. Through resolve and strength of character, they put restraints on the leaders to keep them in check, whether or not they find themselves in official leadership roles.

 

[blackribbon]

Curious question.. do you believe leadership is as needed now in a spouse compared to previous centuries? In the past women may have gotten more of a rush and an appreciation for dominate men when times were more violent and harsh. These days dominance and submission seem more like vanity projects.

One strange thing is the lack of bdsm type relationships in recorded history. Even among promiscuous societies like the Roman Empire. It wasn't until the enlightenment and really the late 19th and early 20th centuries where such relationships pick up steam. Perhaps people need to express these needs in more extreme ways to make up for our less turbulent lives?

I actually think more leadership is needed in today's family because life is so busy and family members are going so many different ways. I think leadership is needed to put limits on individual activities so that the family unit stays strong. Those limits shouldn't only be "rules" like one sport at a time but more desirable activities like "family game night" where no one is allowed to schedule activities on that night. Family units are getting very weak because there is no time to really to get to know the members of your own family.

 

[MehGuy]

I actually think more leadership is needed in today's family because life is so busy and family members are going so many different ways. I think leadership is needed to put limits on individual activities so that the family unit stays strong. Those limits shouldn't only be "rules" like one sport at a time but more desirable activities like "family game night" where no one is allowed to schedule activities on that night. Family units are getting very weak because there is no time to really to get to know the members of your own family.

Does that kind of leadership really require men's input? When I think of why women like leaders its because they need someone who's bigger and stronger to protect them and able to take on the burdens of life. While women need to be in a more submissive state because they're the ones who bear children and need more protection. At least on a psychological level for why men and women are attracted to dominate/submissive roles.

The first world white collar man doesn't seem to have many chances to seem manly to other women. While we can't make any polls it wouldn't surprise me if women are much less satisfied with their men than they were in the past. Humankind in general is more babied and safe than ever.

 

[MehGuy]

We went from.. there is a real possibility that a man might have to kill someone in order to defend his family to a man can decide what day of the week family game night is going to be, lol.

Even in the distant past, gladiators were popular among women. They represented core psychological needs/desires from their men. Toxic masculinity indeed, it is no mystery to my why many feminist seem to be obsessed with the topic. The need to paint themselves as hyper damsels in a sea of toxic masculinity. Lol.

 

[blackribbon]

Does that kind of leadership really require men's input? When I think of why women like leaders its because they need someone who's bigger and stronger to protect them and able to take on the burdens of life. While women need to be in a more submissive state because they're the ones who bear children and need more protection. At least on a psychological level for why men and women are attracted to dominate/submissive roles.

The first world white collar man doesn't seem to have many chances to seem manly to other women. While we can't make any polls it wouldn't surprise me if women are much less satisfied with their men than they were in the past. Humankind in general is more babied and safe than ever.

The option is that the woman makes those decisions but then she is also telling the man what to do ... and men are less likely to feel vested in the family activity if they feel like they are made to be there. But you are right, women are capable of making these decisions ... I have for almost 10 years ... but since the woman is often making most of the decisions about what activities the kids are in and playing taxi to these activities, it is a chance for the man to actually be vested in his family more than just financing it. And personally, I liked when I didn't have to bear the weight of making all the decisions related to the kids. I also didn't like it when my husband felt like an additional kid when he tried to get out of doing things with his family and left me in charge of everything.

 

[blackribbon]

We went from.. there is a real possibility that a man might have to kill someone in order to defend his family to a man can decide what day of the week family game night is going to be, lol.

Even in the distant past, gladiators were popular among women. They represented core psychological needs/desires from their men. Toxic masculinity indeed, it is no mystery to my why many feminist seem to be obsessed with the topic. The need to paint themselves as hyper damsels in a sea of toxic masculinity. Lol.

Well, I hope the same man has a plan to protect his family from danger...since we no longer run family businesses, yes, it requires more effort to keep a family connected.

As for who women are attracted to...I think that since all men don't fall in the same category, chances are who women are attracted to doesn't fit in the same category. You seem hyperfocused on certain kind of man that you think all women are attracted to. This isn't true anymore than that men only like super thin ditsy model types....