Mega space storm

[tansy]

NASA - Severe Space Weather--Social and Economic Impacts


Apparently something like this happened 150 years ago and caused all kinds of problems. Do you think if this happened today that it would mainly affect USA, or would it affect the whole world?

 

[Michael]

NASA - Severe Space Weather--Social and Economic Impacts


Apparently something like this happened 150 years ago and caused all kinds of problems. Do you think if this happened today that it would mainly affect USA, or would it affect the whole world?

It would probably depend on the duration and the timing of the event. In all probability GPS systems would be affected, as well as power systems. Pretty much all industrialized countries are at risk. The good news is that the sun is currently in a quiet phase and not much is happening in the higher energy wavelengths. The SOHO and now STEREO satellite systems could provide an early warning of the event and give us some time to shut things down in advance and thereby minimize the damage.

 

[juvenissun]

NASA - Severe Space Weather--Social and Economic Impacts


Apparently something like this happened 150 years ago and caused all kinds of problems. Do you think if this happened today that it would mainly affect USA, or would it affect the whole world?

It could fulfill the Mayan prediction of event in 2012. The movie 2012 is coming. It is surely dramatized. but the idea is still valid.

 

[Cabal]

NASA - Severe Space Weather--Social and Economic Impacts


Apparently something like this happened 150 years ago and caused all kinds of problems. Do you think if this happened today that it would mainly affect USA, or would it affect the whole world?

Why would it affect just the USA?

 

[Cabal]

It could fulfill the Mayan prediction of event in 2012. The movie 2012 is coming. It is surely dramatized. but the idea is still valid.

Juv, maybe you can answer something for me here.

I've been denounced as some kind of fake Christian for having the temerity to accept a scientific theory such as evolution - and yet here you're insisting that a Mayan religious prophecy (which it is, it's grounded in their religion) is valid. I've seen other Christians elsewhere subscribe to ancient astronaut theories, which are rooted in Sumerian religion. There's a creationist here who believes that the constellations actually give credence to the Bible, even though it just sounds like astrology hijacked and relabeled.

Why is it ok to do this (even though there's that teensy issue of the first and second commandment, but hey, what's a commandment between friends, eh?) and yet people who accept evolution, which I would say does not violate any commands, are vilified?

 

[tansy]

Why would it affect just the USA?

Well, I asked the question because the article and the article it was linked from seemed to mainly be talking about USA...so I just wasn't sure if it was mainly northern areas of the world, or whether it would affect southern areas too (obviously if it affected the north of N. America, it would affect southern areas of America too.....so perhaps if it also affected Scotland, say, that would also have a knock-on effect in England and Wales).
I thought also that perhaps the southern hemisphere may not be affected? Or perhaps, that 'space event' could happen elsewhere too?

(Sorry if I'm not very clear here in what I'm asking)

 

[TheReasoner]

Well, I asked the question because the article and the article it was linked from seemed to mainly be talking about USA...so I just wasn't sure if it was mainly northern areas of the world, or whether it would affect southern areas too (obviously if it affected the north of N. America, it would affect southern areas of America too.....so perhaps if it also affected Scotland, say, that would also have a knock-on effect in England and Wales).
I thought also that perhaps the southern hemisphere may not be affected? Or perhaps, that 'space event' could happen elsewhere too?

(Sorry if I'm not very clear here in what I'm asking)

Isn't it obvious? To quote Dan Quayle; "America is the greatest planet on earth"


For the op: Knock out any one country as large or significant as the US and the world feels it. Anyway, space storms don't really care about borders. It would be a pretty immense fluke for a solar flare to only affect one nation. I don't think it's even possible. Especially not with all the satellites out there.

 

[Michael]

Why is it ok to do this (even though there's that teensy issue of the first and second commandment, but hey, what's a commandment between friends, eh?) and yet people who accept evolution, which I would say does not violate any commands, are vilified?

Well, I would say that it's not "ok" to vilify you for accepting the tenets of evolutionary theory. Many "Christians" (including the whole Catholic faith) accept these ideas.

I suggest you simply accept the fact that not everyone will agree with you on how to "best" interpret the Bible and learn to argue your points based on science and the scientific method. In my experience some folks will vilify you, others will listen and not necessarily agree with you, but more often than not 'young earth creationists' tend to have no valid scientific arguments to support their position. IMO, the vilification process tends to be related to their own personal frustrations at having no valid arguments so they resort to a cheap ploy.

I've given up trying to argue evolution theory with YEC's because it tends to be futile in my experience. Either one embraces the tenets of science, or one does not. You can't force anyone to change their views and most folks do not want to change their viewpoints or listen to a scientific argument. Instead they want to keep insisting that their personal "interpretation" of a single book is the only valid authority, essentially setting themselves up as the ultimate authority on all Biblical ''interpretation".

 

[Michael]

Well, I asked the question because the article and the article it was linked from seemed to mainly be talking about USA...so I just wasn't sure if it was mainly northern areas of the world, or whether it would affect southern areas too (obviously if it affected the north of N. America, it would affect southern areas of America too.....so perhaps if it also affected Scotland, say, that would also have a knock-on effect in England and Wales).
I thought also that perhaps the southern hemisphere may not be affected? Or perhaps, that 'space event' could happen elsewhere too?

(Sorry if I'm not very clear here in what I'm asking)

In theory both the northern and southern hemispheres would/could experience problems related to a powerful CME. The aurora tend to concentrate all energy around the north and south poles so the most northern and southern regions are more vulnerable than areas near the equator. The last major blowout had very little effect outside of the US only because not much technology existed outside of the US and Europe at that time. Any sort of powerful CME would likely have a far greater effect on the whole planet today than it did in the 1800's.

 

[OldManAnon]

The whole 2012 thing fails on two premises:

1) It disregards what a calendar is for and what happens when one stops. When a calendar stops time or the planet does not end, you get another calendar. Otherwise, the world is ending on December 31st of this year.

2) It ignores actual Mayan folklore, and anthropologists who specialize in Mayan study. As this current long count comes to an end (and it's worth noting, this end of a long count has happened before) the Mayans would have gathered, observed the heavens, and created another long count calendar based on mathematics and astronomy. There may also be some mysticism involved.

The only ones that pimp the 2012 thing out as some kind of end of the world are know-nothing Europeans and their descendants who, amongst other things, have tried to communicate in seance with the Mayan Gods in English and Spanish.

 

[Cabal]

Well, I asked the question because the article and the article it was linked from seemed to mainly be talking about USA...so I just wasn't sure if it was mainly northern areas of the world, or whether it would affect southern areas too (obviously if it affected the north of N. America, it would affect southern areas of America too.....so perhaps if it also affected Scotland, say, that would also have a knock-on effect in England and Wales).
I thought also that perhaps the southern hemisphere may not be affected? Or perhaps, that 'space event' could happen elsewhere too?

(Sorry if I'm not very clear here in what I'm asking)

I imagine they're focusing on the USA as NASA is a US organisation.

But in theory, if the solar ejecta hits us with enough frequency and speed, then these kind of effects could pop up anywhere.

The worst affected areas would be those facing into the sun at the time of the worst ejections, so that would depend on time of year and time of day.

 

[juvenissun]

The whole 2012 thing fails on two premises:

1) It disregards what a calendar is for and what happens when one stops. When a calendar stops time or the planet does not end, you get another calendar. Otherwise, the world is ending on December 31st of this year.

2) It ignores actual Mayan folklore, and anthropologists who specialize in Mayan study. As this current long count comes to an end (and it's worth noting, this end of a long count has happened before) the Mayans would have gathered, observed the heavens, and created another long count calendar based on mathematics and astronomy. There may also be some mysticism involved.

The only ones that pimp the 2012 thing out as some kind of end of the world are know-nothing Europeans and their descendants who, amongst other things, have tried to communicate in seance with the Mayan Gods in English and Spanish.

Regardless, there will be some geophysical/astronomical anomalies happen in that year. And, if you consider the funny behavior of the solar cycle 24 ...

Yes, I am sure there will be 2013. The problem is how would the world look at that time.

 

[juvenissun]

Juv, maybe you can answer something for me here.

I've been denounced as some kind of fake Christian for having the temerity to accept a scientific theory such as evolution - and yet here you're insisting that a Mayan religious prophecy (which it is, it's grounded in their religion) is valid. I've seen other Christians elsewhere subscribe to ancient astronaut theories, which are rooted in Sumerian religion. There's a creationist here who believes that the constellations actually give credence to the Bible, even though it just sounds like astrology hijacked and relabeled.

Why is it ok to do this (even though there's that teensy issue of the first and second commandment, but hey, what's a commandment between friends, eh?) and yet people who accept evolution, which I would say does not violate any commands, are vilified?

I accept the theory of evolution too. But I don't believe it is true (based on scientific reasoning). I also consider prophecies made by other religion/culture credible. Satan is a powerful being after all. I am a little bit nervous about 2012 not because several independent prophecies referred to it, but because several geophysical and astronomical features are converging during this period of time.

I think all these considerations are good for Christians.

The only thing irritates me about evolution is that I don't think human evolved from chimp. That violates the Christian faith. I debate a lot on this issue in the Origin forum.

 

[Cabal]

I accept the theory of evolution too. But I don't believe it is true (based on scientific reasoning). I also consider prophecies made by other religion/culture credible. Satan is a powerful being after all. I am a little bit nervous about 2012 not because several independent prophecies referred to it, but because several geophysical and astronomical features are converging during this period of time.

I think all these considerations are good for Christians.

The only thing irritates me about evolution is that I don't think human evolved from chimp. That violates the Christian faith. I debate a lot on this issue in the Origin forum.

Thanks for responding - I didn't mean to imply by my previous post that you were one of those doing the vilifying, btw. Sorry if that came across.

Which geophysical and astronomical features are converging in 2012? We could discuss those. You mentioned a solar cycle?

However, I'm curious as to why you think the fruits of other religions are credible. To me that violates at least one commandment (whereas, like I said, accepting a scientific theory is not explicitly commanded against). Also, why should an alleged Satanic prophecy be as credible as one from God? The Mayan prophecy is an apocalyptic one - surely the fact that Jesus said no-one knows the day means that it's pretty much wrong by default?

 

[Michael]

Which geophysical and astronomical features are converging in 2012? We could discuss those. You mentioned a solar cycle?

FYI, that cycle maximum happens every 11 years, so that particular "feature" is hardly unique or unusual. Thus far, the new solar cycle has been a complete dud and seems to be one of the quietest cycles in quite some time.

However, I'm curious as to why you think the fruits of other religions are credible. To me that violates at least one commandment (whereas, like I said, accepting a scientific theory is not explicitly commanded against). Also, why should an alleged Satanic prophecy be as credible as one from God? The Mayan prophecy is an apocalyptic one - surely the fact that Jesus said no-one knows the day means that it's pretty much wrong by default?

It may be somewhat misleading IMO to equate the Mayan calendar with *only* their 'religion'. Their calendar (at least the accuracy of that calendar) was in fact more based upon astronomy than upon religion. I'm sure it had religious connotations, and it's possible the "end of the cycle" also had religious connotations, but they did in fact base their calendar on astronomical events, not simply religious ideas. It's probable that the calendar had very mundane and functional components related to figuring out the proper time for planting crops and for predicting the motion of planets. The 2012 date is technically not the end of their calendar, simply an end to a specific cycle within that larger calendar.

Maya calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks for responding - I didn't mean to imply by my previous post that you were one of those doing the vilifying, btw. Sorry if that came across.

Which geophysical and astronomical features are converging in 2012? We could discuss those. You mentioned a solar cycle?

However, I'm curious as to why you think the fruits of other religions are credible. To me that violates at least one commandment (whereas, like I said, accepting a scientific theory is not explicitly commanded against). Also, why should an alleged Satanic prophecy be as credible as one from God? The Mayan prophecy is an apocalyptic one - surely the fact that Jesus said no-one knows the day means that it's pretty much wrong by default?

There are two things to watch: the strength (minimum) of geomagnetism and the abnormal beginning of the solar cycle 24. It is not impossible that these two factors could be combined in the worst way. The third one is the popularly known galactic alignment. I do not have a good idea on its effect. But the word alignment sound bad in reference to the two mentioned factors.

The solar cycle matter is not on whether it would be a strong cycle or a weak cycle. Even in the weakest cycle, if one flare hit the earth head on, it still could make the worst consequence. I guess whether would one hit the earth is a matter of probability. However, could the “alignment” of stars help to focus the storm on earth?

All religions and philosophies developed by human are fruits of human wisdom, which is the direct gift of God. Everything Christian can figure out, non-Christian can do the same. So, all wisdom and knowledge are credible. The key is that we should center all these wisdom and knowledge round the Christian faith. Jesus says that before the end, there will be many signs. I take the Mayan prophecy as one of the signs. As I explained, this time, it is more than just a rootless speculation.

 

[tansy]

Thanks everyone for your replies and clarifications

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks everyone for your replies and clarifications

Thank you for bringing up the question.

 

[Split Rock]

All religions and philosophies developed by human are fruits of human wisdom, which is the direct gift of God. Everything Christian can figure out, non-Christian can do the same. So, all wisdom and knowledge are credible. The key is that we should center all these wisdom and knowledge round the Christian faith. Jesus says that before the end, there will be many signs. I take the Mayan prophecy as one of the signs. As I explained, this time, it is more than just a rootless speculation.

Interesting. Many creationists (including AVET) seem to think that human wisdom, unless it comes from scripture, is evil and ultimately comes from Satan.

 

[juvenissun]

Interesting. Many creationists (including AVET) seem to think that human wisdom, unless it comes from scripture, is evil and ultimately comes from Satan.

Yes. Even scientific knowledge which seems to be neutral, can easily go wrong (toward the evil nature) if not guided by the Scripture. Carl Sagan is an obvious victim of that mistake.

By the way, this concept is Christian, and is not limited to YEC or TE.