Measles

[RestoreTheJoy]

It's not misleading. Lack of vaccinated individuals allow the disease to spread. And anti-vax movements are to blame for lack of vaccinations.

Not so. Someone has to have it. Here is a case among vaccinated kids transmitting it.

Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.

And the outcome is exactly the same in the larger population.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

....homeschool their kids. Those kids don't just sit at home, though, they go out, contaminate others.

Well, only if they have the disease. They can't contaminate anyone if they aren't sick.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

What is the point of the distinction you are trying to make? No, anti-vaxxers don't cause disease. All they do is cause disease to spread that wouldn't otherwise spread, and cause lots of people to get sick who wouldn't otherwise get sick, and some of them to die.

People get sick in vaccinated populations too.

 

[pitabread]

Not so. Someone has to have it. Here is a case among vaccinated kids transmitting it.

Sure, it's possible for someone who has been vaccinated to get measles. The point of the vaccine is that it greatly reduces the chance of getting it, which in turn reduces the transmission in populations and therefore the chance of an outbreak.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[sfs]

People get sick in vaccinated populations too.

Yeah -- just a lot less of them. Again, what is your point?

 

[A Realist]

Not so. Someone has to have it. Here is a case among vaccinated kids transmitting it.

Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.

And the outcome is exactly the same in the larger population.

You need to read the entire paper. This does not provide support to an anti-vaxxer stance.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You need to read the entire paper. This does not provide support to an anti-vaxxer stance.

I read it and I know what it says. I'm taking no stance, except that of objecting to the constantly repeated inaccuracies. I think everyone should do as he sees fit, using his best judgment.

 

[A Realist]

I'm taking no stance, except that of objecting to the constantly repeated inaccuracies.

What inaccuracies?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

What inaccuracies?

Read post 92.

 

[pitabread]

Read post 92.

Nobody thinks anti-vaxxers cause measles. Rather, they enable outbreaks by reducing the percentage of vaccinated individuals in a population. That's the issue.

 

[Albion]

People get sick in vaccinated populations too.

How many...as compared to populations in which very few people are vaccinated?

 

[A Realist]

Read post 92.

I see no inaccuracies in the quote from that post. Your words in that post also did not document any sources of the "inaccuracies" you are referring to.

Show us where anyone is stating that anti-vaxxers are CAUSING a disease.

 

[Go Braves]

Well, only if they have the disease. They can't contaminate anyone if they aren't sick.

They're much more likely to get the disease on account of not being vaccinated. They are contagious before they are showing symptoms, so they're out there contaminating folks. It's just head up the rear end up dumb to not vaccinate if you've got access to vaccines & there's not a medical reason a pediatrician has given specifically for that child not to. But there's a lot of folks mighty content to do head up the rear end dumb stuff.

 

[Go Braves]

Not so. Someone has to have it. Here is a case among vaccinated kids transmitting it.

Measles outbreak in a vaccinated school population: epidemiology, chains of transmission and the role of vaccine failures.

And the outcome is exactly the same in the larger population.

1987? You posted a study from 1987?! Gracious. Are you on anti-vaxxer sites or something? Asking on account of how it's puzzling as heck as to why on earth anybody would just pull out a 1987 study like that. Now, did you read that whole study for yourself? I have to wonder if somebody else just told you what the study said. Asking on account of how I've seen that happen a bunch around here, where folks post a study all sure it holds up their argument, but then that study shoots down their claim. My guess is they don't read it themselves, they're trusting whatever anti-vaxxer site it was presented on, when it's been misrepresented. Not please note I'm not saying that you're lazy but there's definitely a lot of laziness like that with anti-vaxxers in their "research."

Your 1987 study says

Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age.

It acknowledges that there were vaccine failures, meaning students who got the vaccines back in the 1960s / 1970s when they were babies but still contracted the measles in the 1980s during an outbreak.
The study talks about how the school having a nice high vaccination rate helped.

It demonstrates that when measles is introduced in a highly vaccinated population, vaccine failures may play some role in transmission but that such transmission is not usually sustained.

So the folks having been responsible back then in getting their kids vaccinated right helped to slow down the transmission.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

1987? You posted a study from 1987?! Gracious. Are you on anti-vaxxer sites or something? Asking on account of how it's puzzling as heck as to why on earth anybody would just pull out a 1987 study like that. Now, did you read that whole study for yourself? I have to wonder if somebody else just told you what the study said. Asking on account of how I've seen that happen a bunch around here, where folks post a study all sure it holds up their argument, but then that study shoots down their claim. My guess is they don't read it themselves, they're trusting whatever anti-vaxxer site it was presented on, when it's been misrepresented. Not please note I'm not saying that you're lazy but there's definitely a lot of laziness like that with anti-vaxxers in their "research."

Your 1987 study says



It acknowledges that there were vaccine failures, meaning students who got the vaccines back in the 1960s / 1970s when they were babies but still contracted the measles in the 1980s during an outbreak.
The study talks about how the school having a nice high vaccination rate helped.



So the folks having been responsible back then in getting their kids vaccinated right helped to slow down the transmission.

I know what it says, though I hadn't noticed the date. it just came up first. I'm sure there are more recent cases as well.

But here's another CDC situation of outbreak in vaccinated population from 2018: Measles Outbreak in a Highly Vaccinated Population...

I'm sure there are others, but I'm not taking any time on that today.

No, I'm actually in favor of doing what makes sense, and most people do. And also of not being an alarmist. I think the rate is about 97-98 percent, last I checked. Not to mention almost every kid in the 60s got the measles. I don't know any who escaped it, though some may have. They likely have the immunity though, because of the exposure.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Nobody thinks anti-vaxxers cause measles.

Media outlets say it all the time.

Stories begetting stories: How pop culture reinforces abortion stigma—and can help end it - Free Speech TVanti-vaxxers-cause-measles-outbreak/

https://www.newsweek.com/washington-measles-outbreak-shows-anti-vaxxers-are-literally-making-us-sick-1308837

Arizona Is Currently Home To The Largest Measles Outbreak In America
Anti-Vaxxers May Have Caused The Largest Measles Outbreak This Year; Health Officials To Declare State Of Emergency

ThinkProgressits-official-anti-vaxxers-caused-the-disneyland-measles-outbreak-95211fb390cc/

 

[pitabread]

Media outlets say it all the time.

They're talking about outbreaks, not the disease itself.

 

[Go Braves]

I know what it says, though I hadn't noticed the date. it just came up first. I'm sure there are more recent cases as well.

But here's another CDC situation of outbreak in vaccinated population from 2018: Measles Outbreak in a Highly Vaccinated Population...

I'm sure there are others, but I'm not taking any time on that today.

Well if you had read the whole study & read it carefully it's odd you missed out on the date. That's the very 1st thing I saw.

Your other study does a terrific job showing the importance of vaccination & the effectiveness of it. Did you read it? A tiny percentage of folks who got the measles even though they'd been vaccinated had such mild symptoms on account of having been vaccinated that there was confusion over whether they even had it, a delay in diagnosis. The patient who started the outbreak had been to the Ukraine where there was a big outbreak on account of anti-vaxxer idiocy. He contracted a mild case of it. The soldiers were in prime condition for communicable diseases. All living in real close quarters. Recipe for disaster. One was averted on account of guess what? Vaccines. On account of how the military made dang sure that their personnel did have their heads stuck up where the sun doesn't shine & that they got boosters, there wasn't an outbreak. It talks about how it's really rare to have outbreaks of the measles in Israel except in areas where vaccination rates are low.

No, I'm actually in favor of doing what makes sense, and most people do. And also of not being an alarmist. I think the rate is about 97-98 percent, last I checked. Not to mention almost every kid in the 60s got the measles. I don't know any who escaped it, though some may have. They likely have the immunity though, because of the exposure.

Great! Then you are all in favor of vaccination. It does not make one lick of sense, not one, for someone who has got the access to vaccines to not get them, when a pediatrician hasn't given a specific reason for why that child shouldn't get it.

 

[Go Braves]

Media outlets say it all the time.

Stories begetting stories: How pop culture reinforces abortion stigma—and can help end it - Free Speech TVanti-vaxxers-cause-measles-outbreak/

https://www.newsweek.com/washington-measles-outbreak-shows-anti-vaxxers-are-literally-making-us-sick-1308837

Arizona Is Currently Home To The Largest Measles Outbreak In America
Anti-Vaxxers May Have Caused The Largest Measles Outbreak This Year; Health Officials To Declare State Of Emergency

ThinkProgressits-official-anti-vaxxers-caused-the-disneyland-measles-outbreak-95211fb390cc/

Anti-vaxxers ought to be stigmatized. The shame of it is that the kids of anti-vaxxers are the ones who suffer, they're not at fault. Lots of the parents got vaccinated themselves, as little kids, on account of their own parents being more sensible.
Eta: the top link is an odd one to throw in there. Are you saying you think it's wrong that abortion is stigmatized? That's what the article is saying. Well, anti-vaxxer is definitely not pro-life so I can see the connection I suppose.

 

[Strathos]

Out of all of the anti-science conspiracies, anti-vaxxers are the worst.

Young earth creationism? Okay, you're wrong, but I get it.
Flat earth? You're ridiculously wrong and I don't get it, but at least you're not actively killing people

But anti-vaxxers are responsible for literally millions of deaths.