Meaingless words in the Koran

[Montalban]

I told you that these letters are Quranic initials, so I don't know why you insist on using the incorrect terminology to describe them.

I cited my sources. Against this I have you repeating your opinion, backed up by you repeating your opinion.

I have already suggested to you the Quranic commentary by Yusuf Ali contained in his Quran: Translation and Commentary.

I've already suggested to you that you suggesting I go look something up (that may not even be there) is not you presenting evidence. That you keep wishing to pursue this makes me even more certain you have none.

Let me know if you have something more substantial to add other than you repeating your position yet again.

 

[steve_bakr]

I cited my sources. Against this I have you repeating your opinion, backed up by you repeating your opinion.

I've already suggested to you that you suggesting I go look something up (that may not even be there) is not you presenting evidence. That you keep wishing to pursue this makes me even more certain you have none.

Let me know if you have something more substantial to add other than you repeating your position yet again.

Are you really suggesting that I am citing non-existent evidence? Your assertion that you won't look into the source I have given you because "it may not be there" ought to be beneath you.

BTW, the potentially non-existent evidence is on page 17, footnote commentary #25 in The Quran: Text, Translation and Commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., New York: 2001)

 

[Montalban]

Are you really suggesting that I am citing non-existent evidence? Your assertion that you won't look into the source I have given you because "it may not be there" ought to be beneath you.

No, it's just you repeating your claim that it is somewhere else. In discussion I always provide evidence.

Is it your belief that the more posts you don't put forward evidence the more believable your assertion becomes?

It's almost like

Really?
Yes!
Really?
Yes!
Really?
YES!
Oh, okay it must be true.

The whole point of this is if you actually offered evidence then others (not just my good self) could look at it and examine it. You could be right. The only problem is that people have only you saying you are to judge your assertions!

BTW, the potentially non-existent evidence is on page 17, footnote commentary #25 in The Quran: Text, Translation and Commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., New York: 2001)

What's it say?

 

[steve_bakr]

No, it's just you repeating your claim that it is somewhere else. In discussion I always provide evidence.

Is it your belief that the more posts you don't put forward evidence the more believable your assertion becomes?

It's almost like

Really?
Yes!
Really?
Yes!
Really?
YES!
Oh, okay it must be true.

The whole point of this is if you actually offered evidence then others (not just my good self) could look at it and examine it. You could be right. The only problem is that people have only you saying you are to judge your assertions!

What's it say?

I already tried to encapsulate it in my previous post.

 

[Montalban]

I already tried to encapsulate it in my previous post.

Do you not understand that you saying something repeated over and over is not what I consider evidence?

I think this is very clear.

Give me a quote.

I notice the book is on Google Books, if that would help you.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Alif lam mim? That was the best bit!!!

 

[Montalban]

Alif lam mim? That was the best bit!!!

I cited this Islamic site earlier

"Initial, disjoined letters introduce 29 chapters of the Qur'ân. Different chapters begin with different letters: Alîf Lâm Mîm... Kâf Hâ Yâ... `Ayn Sâd... Tâ Sîn Mîm... among other combinations. People often wonder about their meaning. In truth, we cannot ascribe any particular meaning to these letters. Any particular meaning that these letters might have is known only to Allah. Ibn Kathîr, in his Tafsîr, informs us that Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali and Ibn Mas`ud all said that "the disjoined letters in the beginning of some chapters are among those things about which Allah has reserved knowledge to Himself."

However, this does not imply that these letters are meaningless or that they do not serve a clear and discernable function for those who read and listen to the Qur'ân. There is a general meaning that can be understood from all of the letters. These letters serve to highlight the literary nature of the Qur'ân.

Ibn Jarîr al-Tabarî, in his Tafsîr, gives us a survey of what early scholars of the Arabic language have explained about this stylistic device.

Some language scholars state that these are letters of the alphabet and that Allah suffices with them for the entire alphabet of twenty-eight letters...

Others say that the chapters begin this way in order to draw the attention of the polytheists – who had called each other to ignore the Qur'ân – so that when their attention was gotten, they would listen to what was understandable.

Others say these letters are a means of introducing the chapters. Allah begins his discourse by using them."
Alif Lam Mim- The Letters that Begin the Chapters of the Qur'an | IslamToday - English


Their best argument is that there are many explanations as to what they mean, but only they don't know which one.

I've read where it's a literary device, in much the same way as we end singing "Hey Jude" with na-na-na-na-na - that is; a filler.

However even this doesn't help, because there's still no consensus as to their purpose, only that they have some purpose!

Shaikh Abdullah Faisal says that there's 30 different explanations
AUTHENTIC TAUHEED: Notes: Alif Lam Mim- Shaikh Faisal

Against this there has been a surprising argument that they do have a definite meaning - based on alleged evidence on some site, or in some book.

It'd be a bit like me saying "I know this is true, if you don't believe me, go look in the library".

 

[steve_bakr]

I cited this Islamic site earlier

"Initial, disjoined letters introduce 29 chapters of the Qur'ân. Different chapters begin with different letters: Alîf Lâm Mîm... Kâf Hâ Yâ... `Ayn Sâd... Tâ Sîn Mîm... among other combinations. People often wonder about their meaning. In truth, we cannot ascribe any particular meaning to these letters. Any particular meaning that these letters might have is known only to Allah. Ibn Kathîr, in his Tafsîr, informs us that Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali and Ibn Mas`ud all said that "the disjoined letters in the beginning of some chapters are among those things about which Allah has reserved knowledge to Himself."

However, this does not imply that these letters are meaningless or that they do not serve a clear and discernable function for those who read and listen to the Qur'ân. There is a general meaning that can be understood from all of the letters. These letters serve to highlight the literary nature of the Qur'ân.

Ibn Jarîr al-Tabarî, in his Tafsîr, gives us a survey of what early scholars of the Arabic language have explained about this stylistic device.

Some language scholars state that these are letters of the alphabet and that Allah suffices with them for the entire alphabet of twenty-eight letters...

Others say that the chapters begin this way in order to draw the attention of the polytheists - who had called each other to ignore the Qur'ân - so that when their attention was gotten, they would listen to what was understandable.

Others say these letters are a means of introducing the chapters. Allah begins his discourse by using them."
Alif Lam Mim- The Letters that Begin the Chapters of the Qur'an | IslamToday - English

Their best argument is that there are many explanations as to what they mean, but only they don't know which one.

I've read where it's a literary device, in much the same way as we end singing "Hey Jude" with na-na-na-na-na - that is; a filler.

However even this doesn't help, because there's still no consensus as to their purpose, only that they have some purpose!

Shaikh Abdullah Faisal says that there's 30 different explanations
AUTHENTIC TAUHEED: Notes: Alif Lam Mim- Shaikh Faisal

Against this there has been a surprising argument that they do have a definite meaning - based on alleged evidence on some site, or in some book.

It'd be a bit like me saying "I know this is true, if you don't believe me, go look in the library".

This is an interesting and informative post. The romantic mystic in me prefers the explanation that these initials have a mystical meaning known only to Allah but that it is possible for the seeker to receive the meaning when the eye of his heart is opened up through ascetic purification.