• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Meaingless words in the Koran

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Please, if you would.
Could you give me a detailed explanation of every prophecy and line contained within the Book of Revelations?
Oh and I wan't a universal understanding as well, if the meaning of the verse is contested within or outside the Catholic Church, I won't accept it.


If you cannot, then I would like you to admit the New Testament was penned by the author of confusion.


Here are some timelines:

Lets me briefly go over the 1290 days because of your objections. Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." This happened in 583 BC, so lets take the 1290 days and follow the same guidelines Ive been using and convert them into solar years. 1290 x .9857 = 1271.553. If we don't round the number off this takes us to 688.553 and like I said before I'm counting the starting year 583 BC as a year, I have no good reason not to.

Now you may disagree with me about the length of a common ancient Hebrew year but I am using evidence from the Bible to define it as 360 days. The book of Daniel makes it very clear that it would not be understood until the time of the end as brought out clearly in Daniel 12:4 and 12:9. If there wasn't more to it than what Daniel knew regarding a year why couldn't he figure it out after all its pretty simple math. And Daniel was very well versed he knew of the day for a year principle. He was very familiar with the levitical code and of the progression of sevens. Why is it to hard to believe that 69 shavium would be 69 x 7 and then use the principle of a day for a year as used in previous punishments, give me one good reason not to think that is reasonable. A year has always been defined as 12 months, yes some years had intercalary month but that was not a typical year. When these things are to be understood we are looking back and have the exact knowledge of the length of a year why is it so absurd to convert them, especially when you see the result. As far as the 42 months in Revelation when it was written they were under the Julian calender which was 365.25 days. Honestly if you use 365.25 or 365.24 it doesn't make much of a difference at all in the timeline. 42 months is three and a half years as was defined at the time it was written, there is no confusion regarding that.

So 3.5 years times 365.24 = 1278.34.... 1967 AD - 1278.34= 688.66 AD. One more thing you might want to take into consideration is that where the dome of the rock sits is where the court of the gentiles was and it is measured out in Revelation 11:2 where it says " But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."



OK let me give you another timeline from revelation that has no conversion factor at all. In revelation 12:6 it says "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Israel is that woman and up until 688 AD Christians and Jews could worship freely. After 688 when Muslims took control they had to run for their lives and fled into the nations. 688 AD plus 1260 years = 1948 AD when Israel became a nation and were no longer in the wilderness.



And regarding the 70th week I didn't finish what I was talking about because the 70th week is more about what happened in the middle of the week. lets do that one more time a shavua is a jubilee year and 360 days times 7 = 2520. We convert that to solar years and get 2483.964 lets just call it 2484. . From the Decree Of Cyrus in 536 BC to 1948 is 2484 years. Daniel 9:27 says "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Notice how it says for the overspreading of abominations plural. The middle of that week would be 1242 years half of 2484 years. From 536 BC to 706 AD when the Al-Asqa mosque was completed was 1242 years. 1242 years after that in 1948 Israel became a nation.



The 1290 days leads up to the beginning of the construction of the Dome Of The Rock in 688 AD and the middle of the 70th week brings us to the completion of the Al-Asqa mosque 706AD.



The construction of the Dome Of The Rock started in 688 AD, some disagree and put it earlier than that and some put it later but there is more evidence for 688AD than any other date. If you disagree please give me your source.



And Im not catholic!!!!
 
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Please, if you would.
Could you give me a detailed explanation of every prophecy and line contained within the Book of Revelations?
Oh and I wan't a universal understanding as well, if the meaning of the verse is contested within or outside the Catholic Church, I won't accept it.


If you cannot, then I would like you to admit the New Testament was penned by the author of confusion.


Since you contest revelations you probably wont even read the timelines. Keep going with your Islam taught way of discrediting Jesus Christ. You cant even exlpain the Qur'an because you dont have the "majic." Please I wouldnt deny the NT or my Lord and Savior Jesus Chrsit if you were here pointing a gun at my head so nice try:wave:
 
Upvote 0

steve_bakr

Christian
Aug 3, 2011
5,918
240
✟30,033.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Malley said:
Please, if you would.
Could you give me a detailed explanation of every prophecy and line contained within the Book of Revelations?
Oh and I wan't a universal understanding as well, if the meaning of the verse is contested within or outside the Catholic Church, I won't accept it.

If you cannot, then I would like you to admit the New Testament was penned by the author of confusion.

While I am extremely dubious about such timelines and interpretations of Biblical Prophesy that always seem to potray the geo-political viewpoints of the interpreters, I am as offended by your suggestion that the NT was written by the "author of confusion" as much as I object to the poster saying the same about the Quran. Remember that the Quran says it is best to repay a bad deed with a good deed.:)
 
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
While I am extremely dubious about such timelines and interpretations of Biblical Prophesy that always seem to potray the geo-political viewpoints of the interpreters, I am as offended by your suggestion that the NT was written by the "author of confusion" as much as I object to the poster saying the same about the Quran. Remember that the Quran says it is best to repay a bad deed with a good deed.:)


Umm if you are saying that my response if geo-political you are mad. Then you are calling the Bible geo-political. But thanks for the second hand put down, next time try it to my face. And furthermore try just for once studying what I put down with your Bible and see what happens.:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

steve_bakr

Christian
Aug 3, 2011
5,918
240
✟30,033.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Avelina777 said:
Umm if you are saying that my response if geo-political you are mad. Then you are calling the Bible geo-political. But thanks for the second hand put down, next time try it to my face. And furthermore try just for once studying what I put down with your Bible and see what happens.:thumbsup:

Avelina,
I am not putting you down. I have been dubious about such redactive interpretations of the Bible for many years mainly because I've been around long enough to see such interpretations change with the direction of the geopolitical winds.
 
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Avelina,
I am not putting you down. I have been dubious about such redactive interpretations of the Bible for many years mainly because I've been around long enough to see such interpretations change with the direction of the geopolitical winds.


You really are blind, they are in the Bible, they are not mine, try looking at it instead of assuming.
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
Since you contest revelations you probably wont even read the timelines. Keep going with your Islam taught way of discrediting Jesus Christ. You cant even exlpain the Qur'an because you dont have the "majic." Please I wouldnt deny the NT or my Lord and Savior Jesus Chrsit if you were here pointing a gun at my head so nice try:wave:

Im not asking you to deny anything.
Im simply asking if you can fully 100% explain and understand everything in the Bible and if 100% of Christians agree on it.

The fact is you can't.

As Muslims neither can we understand absolutely everything in the Qur'an, the various mystical letters preceding certain Surah's are the prime example of this.
However the message of the Qur'an remains clear, and any person honestly seeking can gain the message.

In the exact same way you would argue, that the message of Love and Salvation through Jesus Christ is clear in the NT(and even the OT!) and that anyone who honestly seeks, can see the message.

Correct?
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
While I am extremely dubious about such timelines and interpretations of Biblical Prophesy that always seem to potray the geo-political viewpoints of the interpreters, I am as offended by your suggestion that the NT was written by the "author of confusion" as much as I object to the poster saying the same about the Quran. Remember that the Quran says it is best to repay a bad deed with a good deed.:)

You are of course correct, and I did not mean to imply that the NT was penned by the "Author of Confusion" merely, slyly pointing out that people cannot apply Different Liteary standards as and when it pleases is them.

I.E if something being mystical in Islams Holy Text is a sign Islam is false.
Then surely something being mystical in Christianity Holy Text, should be a sign Christianity is false?

If you can't apply the same standard of judgement to both sides of the argument, then a comparison indeed a discussion becomes pointless.
 
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Im not asking you to deny anything.
Im simply asking if you can fully 100% explain and understand everything in the Bible and if 100% of Christians agree on it.

The fact is you can't.

As Muslims neither can we understand absolutely everything in the Qur'an, the various mystical letters preceding certain Surah's are the prime example of this.
However the message of the Qur'an remains clear, and any person honestly seeking can gain the message.

In the exact same way you would argue, that the message of Love and Salvation through Jesus Christ is clear in the NT(and even the OT!) and that anyone who honestly seeks, can see the message.

Correct?

So you are ignoring the timelines???
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
So you are ignoring the timelines???

It's very interesting!
A lot of math there, that will take some time to go over!

However, can I ask.

What relevance at all does it have to our discussion, regarding mystic or not-understood text within the Bible/Qur'an.

It seems more like an assault or accusation of some sort aimed at Islam, which is neither productive, nor within the remit of this discussion.
I did not come here to attack Christianity, so I would ask you refrain from attacking Islam in a simmiler manner!

However if that is not your intent, i apologies!
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
Can I also ask....why did you convert the "Days" into Solar Years.

Daniel seemed to be saying a very clear "Day" I just got my Hebrew Bible out and checked, and it's there to "Yom" i.e a 24 hour Day.

What need was there to convert this Literal collection of 24hour cycles into Solar Years?

I know that a handfull of Theologians such as Thieleman van Braght, or Michale Henry to the same thing.
But what is there foundation or justification, other than to make the numbers fit?

Edit: Also where did you get the number 9857 (adjust 360 to 365.24 day years) from?
You seem to have just pulled it out of thin air, as a random number, that has no relation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
Can I also ask....why did you conver the "Days" into Solar Years.

Daniel seemed to be saying a very clear "Day" I just got my Hebrew Bible out and checked, and it's there to "Yom" i.e a 24 hour Day.

What need was there to conver this Literal collection of 24hour cycles into Solar Years?


Well you have the lunar year which is explained and is used in the OT and when the OT is over 1 bc to 0 then when it goes to 0-1AD it changes to the solar calendar which is also explained. Hope this helps any questions I have no problem answering and I will use scripture if you like :)
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
Well you have the lunar year which is explained and is used in the OT and when the OT is over 1 bc to 0 then when it goes to 0-1AD it changes to the solar calendar which is also explained. Hope this helps any questions I have no problem answering and I will use scripture if you like :)

I edited the post, to ask about the 9k number what relevance it has.

You also did not answer why you are converting literal days(yom) into Years, when there is no hint to do as much.
Hebrew has a very clear word for year(Shanah If memory serves me).

Edit: I also have a post at the end of page 17 waiting ^_^
Edit 2: Also Wiki says that the Dome of the Rock's construction began in 689, a Christian Referance site, stating 687 and some estimating as early as 685 or at late as 691.
In fact from a Google, most of the 1st Page results say 691, three years of the mark
Salaam
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
I edited the post, to ask about the 9k number what relevance it has.

You also did not answer why you are converting literal days(yom) into Years, when there is no hint to do as much.
Hebrew has a very clear word for year(Shanah If memory serves me).

Edit: I also have a post at the end of page 17 waiting ^_^

Salaam


I did not see your post apologies. I was proving that the Bible was clear not attacking anyone. Oh and about the year. It is a timeline in Genesis we receive that one day is a year using the flood. I could put that timeline up for you if you would like.
 
Upvote 0

Malley

Wahh!
Dec 24, 2011
32
1
Sunderland England
✟15,157.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Conservative
I did not see your post apologies. I was proving that the Bible was clear not attacking anyone. Oh and about the year. It is a timeline in Genesis we receive that one day is a year using the flood. I could put that timeline up for you if you would like.

I would be grateful if you would.

However, do you transform a "Day into a year" every time a day pops up?
Or just when it is convinient to do so?

Edit: However proving that one Prophecy is vaguely provable, is not the same as proving every verse in the Bible is 100% clear with everyone 100% agreeing on the interpritation.

Because that would be perfect clarity.
 
Upvote 0

Avelina777

Hearer of Faith
Nov 2, 2011
1,741
144
✟18,088.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Engaged
I would be grateful if you would.

However, do you transform a "Day into a year" every time a day pops up?
Or just when it is convinient to do so?

Edit: However proving that one Prophecy is vaguely provable, is not the same as proving every verse in the Bible is 100% clear with everyone 100% agreeing on the interpritation.

Because that would be perfect clarity.


I will provide that timeline please give me some time to write it up from my notes and the scriptures. No I do not use the day = 100 yrs conveniently, I use it where scripture says to. Like I said I only put up some timelines. I have many more. Lets just get through these and believe me I can show you more. It is perfect clarity.
 
Upvote 0

Montalban

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2004
35,424
1,509
57
Sydney, NSW
✟42,787.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Im not asking you to deny anything.
Im simply asking if you can fully 100% explain and understand everything in the Bible and if 100% of Christians agree on it.

The fact is you can't.

Is this why you diverted the thread?
 
Upvote 0

BruceDLimber

Baha'i
Nov 14, 2005
2,820
63
Rockville, Maryland, USA
✟25,839.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
[to a third party] Could you give me a detailed explanation of every prophecy and line contained within the Book of Revelations?

Happy to help out!

I refer you to this site:

http://www.bahai-library.org

where under the "Books" heading you can find Robert Riggs' book Apocalypse Unsealed: An Exegesis, which contains a verse-by-verse interpretation of the entire Book of Revelation.

Enjoy! :)

Bruce
 
Upvote 0

steve_bakr

Christian
Aug 3, 2011
5,918
240
✟30,033.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Montalban said:
Those claiming that these words have meaning will hopefully be able to present some evidence.

I told you that these letters are Quranic initials, so I don't know why you insist on using the incorrect terminology to describe them. There have been several theories proposed, for example, as to the meaning of alif lam mim at the beginning of Surah Al-Baqara.
One is that they have mystical significance that it is best not to speculate about using logical language. Another theory is that they stand for the three names of revelation--Allah, Gabriel, Muhammad. Yet another is that they stand for beginning, middle, and end in the same fashion of the Alpha and Omega of Revelations.

I have already suggested to you the Quranic commentary by Yusuf Ali contained in his Quran: Translation and Commentary.
 
Upvote 0