Meaingless words in the Koran

[steve_bakr]

I take it then you still don't have any evidence.

Anyway, I put in the link for those who might be interested.

 

[Montalban]

The evidence is in your mouseclick finger. I'm sorry that I cannot duplicate for you the meanings of the some 77,000 words in the Quran contained in some 6,600 verses in the space of a single post.

I don't subscribe to the 'go research this for me' theory

You either can present evidence to support your conjecture, or you can't.

Simple as that.

I'm not after the meanings to 77,000 words, but only those I mentioned as having no meaning. That this would no be your objection for not being able to prove your point smacks of being disingenuous

 

[Montalban]

The contention is that there's meaningless words in the Koran.

I evidenced this from an Islamic site.

Against this is the opinion that they do in fact have meaning. It's suggested that a web-site supports this contention. Only that too is a contention too - so far.

 

[steve_bakr]

The contention is that there's meaningless words in the Koran.

I evidenced this from an Islamic site.

Against this is the opinion that they do in fact have meaning. It's suggested that a web-site supports this contention. Only that too is a contention too - so far.

What you are referring to are not words but Arabic letters. The grammatical term is Quranic Initials (INL).

 

[Montalban]

What you are referring to are not words but Arabic letters. The grammatical term is Quranic Initials (INL).

You said that they had meaning. You offered a 'site' that you claimed showed this.

Now you want to change your position again?

 

[Avelina777]

You said that they had meaning. You offered a 'site' that you claimed showed this.

Now you want to change your position again?

Not shocking.

 

[Malley]

You said that they had meaning. You offered a 'site' that you claimed showed this.

Now you want to change your position again?

They do have meaning.
But damned if we know what that meaning is.
It's a lovely mystery of the faith.

And no, they are no more words than asdhfuefh is a word, placing a series of letters one after the other does not create a word, it creates a series of letters one after another.
A specific or commonly understood meaining, context and use is required for a series of letters or symbols to become a word.

What you describe and have contension with, are a series of letters that prefix certain Surahs of the Qur'an

 

[Malley]

I've also evidenced that Moslems say that they 'can' know what these words mean

Some may.
It could mean something different to every individual, or some may be lieing, or mistaken.
We leave it to God.

That's a poor analogy.

You're saying Moslems not understanding their own faith is like people of no faith not understanding a faith issue.

Your right it is a poor analogy, change the word "Atheist" to "Christian" and my point will stand.

You're allowed to start threads

You can ask here or General Theology

Much Appreciated.
However to save time and confusion, could you answer it here, since it is pertinent to this conversation.

Do you think there are mysterious verses or aspects within the Bible?

 

[Montalban]

Anyway, I put in the link for those who might be interested.

....In searching for evidence for your claims

 

[Montalban]

However to save time and confusion, could you answer it here, since it is pertinent to this conversation.

Do you think there are mysterious verses or aspects within the Bible?

I have no problem with answering your questions. They should be in the right area.

I of course think that there are mysteries in the Bible.

We don't understand how the world was created, but we believe it.

In the Book of Acts is an example of someone saying he didn't understand scripture - he was an Ethiopian. The deacon Philip sat with him and explained it.

 

[Avelina777]

....In searching for evidence for your claims

Me as well!

 

[Montalban]

They do have meaning.
But damned if we know what that meaning is.
It's a lovely mystery of the faith.

That's certainly an argument from semantics.

I thought that it was clear that the meaning is in reference to 'us' (people) early on by saying that the Koran can't be both clear and not understood.

Certainly I didn't state I was relating to apes, cicadas, koalas, etc. I just thought people would understand that meaning meant meaning for us.

 

[steve_bakr]

Jeez, it's only a mouseclick, and I am referring to actual words, not the Arabic letters. My objection is that you are depicting them as words.. As far as their meanings are concerned, Yusuf Ali writes about them in his commentary. He gives them a mystical significance, but he does say it is not necessarily profitable for the average person to get caught up in what they mean.

I am surprised you won't even bother to check out the site I gave you from the Leeds University School of Computing, if you have an interest in the Quran, as you seem to. It has a full grammatical breakdown of every word in the Quran, along with color-coded Arabic script, transliteration, and English meaning. It also contains an Audio section with dozens of major reciters. For those who are interested it is http://corpus.quran.com/

Bump

 

[Avelina777]

Bump

So you contain the majic that certain people in Islam claim to have to understand the Qur'an?

 

[suhail]

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Montalban

If someone does not know the meaning of NATO, this does not render the acronym NATO meaning less.

Similarly we don’t know the meaning of Koranic acronyms. It is known to God only. So don’t conclude that they are meaningless!

This argument is sufficient if you wish to understand.

-

 

[Avelina777]

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Montalban

If someone does not know the meaning of NATO, this does not render the acronym NATO meaning less.

Similarly we don’t know the meaning of Koranic acronyms. It is known to God only. So don’t conclude that they are meaningless!

This argument is sufficient if you wish to understand.

-

okey dokey, authour of confusion

 

[Montalban]

Bump

Where on that site?

 

[Montalban]

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If someone does not know the meaning of NATO, this does not render the acronym NATO meaning less.

Absolutely. I don't have to know a meaning of the word to know that it has meaning.

However, I've asked what are the meanings of these Islamic words and no one can tell me.

 

[Avelina777]

Absolutely. I don't have to know a meaning of the word to know that it has meaning.

However, I've asked what are the meanings of these Islamic words and no one can tell me.

Montalban we dont have the magic formula

 

[Malley]

okey dokey, authour of confusion

Please, if you would.
Could you give me a detailed explanation of every prophecy and line contained within the Book of Revelations?
Oh and I wan't a universal understanding as well, if the meaning of the verse is contested within or outside the Catholic Church, I won't accept it.


If you cannot, then I would like you to admit the New Testament was penned by the author of confusion.