McConnell Agrees Trump Screwed Virus Response.

[blackribbon]

Well, in Australia for example, we were able to identify that 80-85% of our infections were due to o’seas travellers, which led to our very strict isolation rules for anyone entering the country, or who had entered in the immediate past. In addition, our state borders have been ‘closed’ in the sense that anyone crossing has to undergo 14 days isolation (mind you, in 5 star hotel rooms...at the government’s expense..!). This has meant we can focus more acutely on those infections that have no apparent o’seas link.

And it’s kinda working...

We can compare when this is over...you are also in the summer season. I hope it has worked for you though.

 

[Allandavid]

Blackribbon, to return somewhat to the focus of this thread...

You seem to be of the opinion that Trump and his minions are controlling this well. If so, why the need to offer the blame-game excuse that they were distracted by the impeachment process? Has the response been timely and effective, or not...?

 

[Allandavid]

We can compare when this is over...you are also in the summer season. I hope it has worked for you though.

Yes, you’re right...winter will be an additional challenge. But, our big advantage is that we already have a pronounced ‘flattening’ taking place, we already have adopted measures for social isolation and work-from- home where possible and we have seen genuine national leadership enacted to deal with the pandemic, including the willingness to run up national debt to care for the financial and physical health of our populace.

Oh...and we have this minor benefit of universal health coverage...

 

[blackribbon]

Define rare.

Anyway, lets revisit this in two weeks to see if your mind has changed.

I am more than happy to revisit this in two weeks...(I actually am living it 4 days a week).

Rare...I have heard of 1 doctor dying in our system of 5,500 doctors. One other associate died and we have 26,000 associates. I don't know what the position of the associate was. I haven't heard of any others but there was shock so it isn't likely a common thing. Another hospital system larger than mine announce a doctor's death and a nurse's death. They made the news so this obviously isn't a common thing to lose healthcare workers. Considering we are surrounded by Covid exposure (residents are basically living at the hospitals) and most of the staff is exhausted and stressed so their immune systems are in shock...that sounds like "rare" to me. Do you disagree?

 

[iluvatar5150]

I guess you either didn't listen to what he said or are depending on what others say he said. He said the media was the hoax...trying to scare people about the virus....and it has worked. Do you remember the last pandemic? 2009 Swine flu...12,000 Americans died and 60.8 million Americans ill? How about the 1968 Hong Kong flu pandemic where 1 million died worldwide and 100,000 Americans died? Or the 1957 Asian flu where 1.1 million people died worldwide and 110,000 Americans died? The difference is only a media that doesn't report fact based news anymore and the internet freaking people out.

Do they not teach math in nursing school? We’ve had 8200 deaths in the last two weeks and our infection rates are still growing. That’s substantially worse than the swine flu.

We are getting close to peaking (the numbers today were exposed two weeks ago)

What’s your idea of “close”? From what I’ve seen, most states aren’t expecting to hit their peak hospital loads until mid-late April or early May.

If this virus is so deadly... why are the deaths so rare and far between (tragic, just the same)?

So rare that NYC is stacking bodies in reefer trucks.

 

[rambot]

If Trump had by now, and on his own, cured everyone of the virus, the Resistance would be complaining that it took him too long.

instead what we have Is a reality where his supporters continue to be unwilling to see how he continues to screw up and more people are dying.

"If"s are cool but why not address reality.

 

[blackribbon]

Yes, you’re right...winter will be an additional challenge. But, our big advantage is that we already have a pronounced ‘flattening’ taking place, we already have adopted measures for social isolation and work-from- home where possible and we have seen genuine national leadership enacted to deal with the pandemic, including the willingness to run up national debt to care for the financial and physical health of our populace.

Oh...and we have this minor benefit of universal health coverage...

That flattening is dependent on enough people actually getting the virus so herd immunity can protect the rest...or a vaccine to do the same. Otherwise, if the majority of the population still has no immunity they are vulnerable and it can still take over if it is primarily a winter virus. You will have the benefit of our studies for effective treatment regimes too instead of having to experiment to see what works.

I have read that some believe that the TB vaccine (BCG) seems to offer some immunity. We do not get that here in the US. I don't know if you all get that as part of your vaccine regiment. If you do, then you may have some level of partial immunity which will also slow the virus down.

 

[blackribbon]

instead what we have Is a reality where his supporters continue to be unwilling to see how he continues to screw up and more people are dying.

"If"s are cool but why not address reality.

And then there are the people that think contagious diseases can be controlled by politicians....coming up with rules, laws, and taxed them out of existence....

 

[Allandavid]

That flattening is dependent on enough people actually getting the virus so herd immunity can protect the rest...or a vaccine to do the same.

OR...having protocols put in place to keep people apart until that vaccine is available.

Care to answer my on-topic question? Did Donald have it all “under control” from the outset, or was he “distracted”...?

 

[rambot]

And then there are the people that think contagious diseases can be controlled by politicians....coming up with rules, laws, and taxed them out of existence....

they can institute policies that can help manage the spread yes.

Do you seriously think social distancing is not affecting the transmission of the disease?

How are things going at your hospital black ribbon?

 

[blackribbon]

Do they not teach math in nursing school? We’ve had 8200 deaths in the last two weeks and our infection rates are still growing. That’s substantially worse than the swine flu.



What’s your idea of “close”? From what I’ve seen, most states aren’t expecting to hit their peak hospital loads until mid-late April or early May.




So rare that NYC is stacking bodies in reefer trucks.

I do consider two weeks to be "close" to peaking...especially when what we are looking at is 2 weeks after the exposure....which is mid to late April. And 8,000 is less than 12,000 ... I don't know what math you are using that has that greater than 12,000. I never said this will be worse than the 2009 Swine flu pandemic...only that most of us don't even remember it and the country didn't close down.

The morgue trucks in NYC are probably related to the 1000 deaths there of the 8100 in the nation there...meaning 12% of all the nations deaths in one city. That would be overwhelming but isn't the norm.

 

[blackribbon]

OR...having protocols put in place to keep people apart until that vaccine is available.

Care to answer my on-topic question? Did Donald have it all “under control” from the outset, or was he “distracted”...?

I believe he has handled it well and better than most. He tried to keep it out of the country. I don't think he is distracted easily...but the media is out to make him look that way. The media is horrible. Journalists think that editorials are news...and don't understand unbiased reporting. They are trying to persuade and not report. They don't have to agree but don't tell me how to think.

Now the other party had to tack all their special interest bills to a bill intended to simply address the economics of the country. They wouldn't pass it without funding a museum and a bunch of other pandering items that had nothing to do with Covid issues. Who is screwing around and making this virus political?

 

[blackribbon]

they can institute policies that can help manage the spread yes.

Do you seriously think social distancing is not affecting the transmission of the disease?

How are things going at your hospital black ribbon?

I don't think most people social distanced until recently even though it was recommended months ago. I don't think we should need a national law to behave properly. The failure is not the governments but rather people doing the right thing because it is simply the right thing.

Remember, what happens today is from exposure two weeks ago. Most of the laws should be managed on a state level because the situations in each state is different.

On Friday, my little unit had at least 3 patients who had been weened off the vents and were working on building their strength back up. The youngest one was 51.

 

[blackribbon]

Time for bed...two 13 hour shifts in the next two days.

 

[eclipsenow]

You weren't here for the Obama administration?????

As an Australian just looking in from the outside, I may have missed various Obama Administration releases for domestic consumption only. However, Obama spoke like a true Statesman. Trump struggles to speak like an adult! He trips over himself trying to construct a coherent thought without stumbling over how utterly "Marvellous, fabulous, you're going to love it!" he really is.

And his denial of the Covid threat over the last few months has been utterly incomprehensible and reprehensible. If I had been President I would have done everything in my constitutional powers to put America on a war time footing, with companies mass producing PPE and ventilators and converting stadiums and warehouses and convention centers into extra hospitals the very moment the Chinese discovered what the virus was! And I'm not even an infectious diseases expert: but anyone with even half a brain that has watched Outbreak or Contagion or for that matter any Zombie movie understands exponential growth intuitively.

The risks are real, and Donald has to be reminded NOT to promise to open the country up after Easter because it would kill 2.2 million Americans! I mean, seriously, what is wrong with the guy? This is akin to a President just washing his hands of being attacked at Pearl Harbour and saying "Oh those cheeky Japanese, but it will be all right, trust me, it's nothing, and we're winning this" without mobilising a single soldier!

 

[blackribbon]

As an Australian just looking in from the outside, I may have missed various Obama Administration releases for domestic consumption only. However, Obama spoke like a true Statesman. Trump struggles to speak like an adult! He trips over himself trying to construct a coherent thought without stumbling over how utterly "Marvellous, fabulous, you're going to love it!" he really is.

And his denial of the Covid threat over the last few months has been utterly incomprehensible and reprehensible. If I had been President I would have done everything in my constitutional powers to put America on a war time footing, with companies mass producing PPE and ventilators and converting stadiums and warehouses and convention centers into extra hospitals the very moment the Chinese discovered what the virus was! And I'm not even an infectious diseases expert: but anyone with even half a brain that has watched Outbreak or Contagion or for that matter any Zombie movie understands exponential growth intuitively.

The risks are real, and Donald has to be reminded NOT to promise to open the country up after Easter because it would kill 2.2 million Americans! I mean, seriously, what is wrong with the guy? This is akin to a President just washing his hands of being attacked at Pearl Harbour and saying "Oh those cheeky Japanese, but it will be all right, trust me, it's nothing, and we're winning this" without mobilising a single soldier!

Obama memorized speeches written by his speech writers and was a professional politician. Trump speaks for himself and speaks like a business man does.

I am not exactly why you would be so wrapped up in American politics when you are not a citizen of this country. And even though the media doesn't show it, Trump is liked and respected by many Americans. Likely enough to re-elect him for another 4 years.

How about you worry about Australian politics and let us worry about American politics. Foreign policy is fair game if it is with your country. And ban Americans from visiting while we are getting this virus under control...and medical knowledge on how to manage and treat it.

 

[lasthero]

I do consider two weeks to be "close" to peaking...especially when what we are looking at is 2 weeks after the exposure....which is mid to late April. And 8,000 is less than 12,000 ... I don't know what math you are using that has that greater than 12,000.

You’re ignoring the time frame. The vast majority of those deaths happened in just the past two weeks. It will surpass 12,000 by this Friday - that’s not reading a crystal ball, that’s not a random prediction. Short of an actual miracle, that’s guaranteed, and it’s still picking up speed. And it reached that number by infecting far less of the population.

This is worse than the swine flu. There’s just no way around it.

 

[Allandavid]

I believe he has handled it well and better than most. He tried to keep it out of the country.

No, he didn’t. He wasted time, he tried to belittle the problem, went golfing and rallying while he should have been leading and permitted US residents to continue to visit China after he had banned Chinese travelling to the US. He wasted 2 weeks before he would give Azar an ‘audience’ and then only to talk about flavoured vaping...!

I don't think he is distracted easily...but the media is out to make him look that way.

No...! He and McConnell are making it look that way...that’s the point of this thread...! THEY are claiming that he was “distracted”...

The media is horrible. Journalists think that editorials are news...and don't understand unbiased reporting. They are trying to persuade and not report. They don't have to agree but don't tell me how to think.

Sometimes, the truth can be “horrible”...

 

[lasthero]

“ I think [impeachment] diverted the attention of the government, because everything every day was all about impeachment.”

Republicans Say Impeachment Distracted Trump From Preparing for Coronavirus

Of course, McConnell’s and Trump’s intent here is to shift the blame for the shoddy response to their political opponents...nothing new in that from the “I take no responsibility” crowd...

And let’s not focus on the dates not matching their ‘argument’. And let’s not be too concerned that Trump didn’t feel so distracted that he couldn’t take multiple golf trips and host multiple rallies during the period in question.

No, the key point in their blame-shifting attempt is that it recognises that the response was poor...!

What I love about this whole distraction narrative is that it implies Trump is incapable of effectively dealing with more than one important issue at a time.

 

[camille70]

I am more than happy to revisit this in two weeks...(I actually am living it 4 days a week).

Rare...I have heard of 1 doctor dying in our system of 5,500 doctors. One other associate died and we have 26,000 associates. I don't know what the position of the associate was. I haven't heard of any others but there was shock so it isn't likely a common thing. Another hospital system larger than mine announce a doctor's death and a nurse's death. They made the news so this obviously isn't a common thing to lose healthcare workers. Considering we are surrounded by Covid exposure (residents are basically living at the hospitals) and most of the staff is exhausted and stressed so their immune systems are in shock...that sounds like "rare" to me. Do you disagree?

I thought you were speaking of civilians. There have been a few doctors and nurses profiled on tv who have passed. I haven't been keeping track of the numbers. I hear eye/nose/throat specialists are prone to exposure also. I know there are dozens who have been infected.