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Maybe Moses really had horns

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by cloudyday2, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Have you thought about getting the horn removed?

    EDIT: I'm sure you have probably talked about this with your doctor, but it might get bigger as you age and become painful. Of course the removal also sounds painful. I suppose if it doesn't bother you then it might not be worth removing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutaneous_horn
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  2. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Probably a better translation of "keran" would be "projection" or "radial"?
     
  3. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Here is an example of horns used to symbolize godlike character from 2200 BCE (Victory Stele of Naram-Sin). In that era, gods and demigods had horns in art. Later the symbolism seems to have changed from horns to wings.
    https://www.historians.org/teaching...storiographic-tool/victory-stele-of-naram-sin
     
  4. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Reminds me of when Moses was told by God "I will make you a god to pharaoh"

    In the OT horn was a symbol of power, it is commonly said that his face was glowing, and they covered his face up because the "glory" faded.
     
  5. LaSorcia

    LaSorcia Tea Cosy Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Well, later on it says that Moses veiled his face due to the radiance/brightness. It doesn't say he tented his head to cover the horns lol.
     
  6. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    ...and what better way to symbolize the godlike character of Moses than to give him horns like many of the helmets worn by Egyptian gods? :)
     
  7. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    That is true. :) Of course the Torah was not written in one sitting. It probably started as oral stories, then stories were recorded individually, then somebody united the stories into the Torah, and then Jewish scholars tinkered with the stories to keep them synchronized to politics and theology.

    In other words, the veil could have been a story element introduced after the horns had already transformed into radiance. (Or maybe the veil had pointy pockets for the horns ;) )
     
  8. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    This seems to be another instance where people claim the Jews changed something and I ask why and there's really no good answer to that question. Why would it have to be changed from horns to radiance? The importance of it wasn't so much what happened, but that when he spoke so closely to HaShem he was changed so that people were afraid of it. The significance being that HaShem was so great that being around him changed something. Why would later Jews fear it being horns so much that they invented a meaning to the word?

    I'm sorry, but I can't see it being much more than the age-old attack that Jews changed the text when it suited them.
     
  9. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    One reason to change the horns to radiance would be to eliminate vestiges of Canaanite religion from the Torah. The chief god, Baal, was often symbolized as a calf or bull. The holiness of the horns probably derives from the holiness of Baal. I think "Baal" was a title ("Lord") in addition to a personality. So when Judaism was young, they were essentially claiming that their tribal god Yahweh was the highest of all gods in the Canaanite pantheon. Thus they were declaring Yahweh to be Baal/Lord. The horns came with the job title. Later, the Israelites started trying to discourage idol worship, and the Moses horns became a problem... FWIW that is the theory of one non-historian (i.e. me :) )
     
  10. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where would any human being be born with horns?

    This seems to be a crazy theory based of words. Moses is a name. Very odd. A name is not always translated words.
     
  11. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    What do you mean when we started discouraging idol worship? Worshiping the Golden Calf is in the exact same story. So is the concept of HaShem not having a body or form.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    But how much sense does thinking Moses had literal horns make?
     
  13. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Moses (Moshe) comes from the Egyptian drawn from the water. It is actually an Egyptian name originally, though it is now a Jewish name.
     
  14. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now that makes sense, because Moses was born an Israelite and was put in the basket to be found.

    If Moses had horns, it is a MIRACLE of God. No one born with horns since or before. That is +1 for Jesus Christ!
     
  15. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there's this, so -1.
    Personally, I like the deities with antlers.
     
  16. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    To be found by the daughter of the Pharaoh no less. If anybody has ever seen the movie "The Prince of Egypt", I really love the human focus of it because Pharaoh and Moses would have known each other being brothers by adoption. How much more difficult would that had made Moses's task to know he would be facing off against someone he knew that well? And to know the last plague would kill the child he would have seen as his nephew.
     
  17. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't agree. When Paul had a health issue it is mentioned in the Bible. I believe that Moses having any deformity would have been documented +1 Jesus Christ and MIRACLES!
     
  18. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First, Moses was not a diety.

    Second, your theory is so very far fetched and your meaning of the name seems to be off. Egyptians named him, so it would naturally be an Egyptian meaning. ;)

    +1 for Jesus Christ.
     
  19. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Paganism and idolatry was common in Judah and Israel until after Ezra returned from Persia with instructions from Cyrus to build a temple and whip the locals into monotheistic shape. Monotheism was the state religion of Persia, so Cyrus was probably trying to export Zoroastrianism by converting Jewish monolatry into monotheism. That is probably when the current form of the Torah was created from a collection of earlier Jewish religious texts. The Zoroastrian Jews who collected these writings into the current Torah had to remove some of the more obvious traces of Canaanite religion in the process.
     
  20. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Evidence that Jews weren't monotheists prior to the Babylonian Exile?
     
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