Maybe Moses really had horns

[cloudyday2]

I actually have an itty bitty horn in my upper forehead, doesn't show in my avatar because of the lighting (which is why I don't take my pictures with the light over my head). It's under the skin but its proportions are similar to that of a calf or a cow and also found in the same place as you would in a calf.

None in our family has similar feature. So I won't discount the possibility yet that Moses had a horn and look! I turned out to be a Christian!

Have you thought about getting the horn removed?

EDIT: I'm sure you have probably talked about this with your doctor, but it might get bigger as you age and become painful. Of course the removal also sounds painful. I suppose if it doesn't bother you then it might not be worth removing.

As the horn is composed of keratin, the same material found in fingernails, the horn can usually be removed with a sterile razor.

However, the underlying condition will still need to be treated. Treatments vary, but they can include surgery, radiation therapy, and chemotherapy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutaneous_horn

 

[cloudyday2]

Probably a better translation of "keran" would be "projection" or "radial"?

 

[cloudyday2]

Here is an example of horns used to symbolize godlike character from 2200 BCE (Victory Stele of Naram-Sin). In that era, gods and demigods had horns in art. Later the symbolism seems to have changed from horns to wings.

The king also has numerous accoutrements signifying his status and authority: He is wearing the horned helmet showing his god-like status and is carrying numerous weapons including spears and a bow.

https://www.historians.org/teaching...storiographic-tool/victory-stele-of-naram-sin

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In ancient Near Eastern religions, the bull was important. The earliest cities had bull-head idols. Baal was often depicted as a calf. In artwork the gods and demigods were depicted with horns.

Now we come to Moses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)

IMO, Moses was meant to have horns - just like a Near Eastern demigod. The Hebrew word "keren" literally means "horn", and we know that horns were a symbol of divinity in that region. Receiving the Law is equivalent to eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Learning the Law was a step towards becoming Godlike, so it would make sense that Moses acquired horns after receiving the Law.

Any thoughts?

Reminds me of when Moses was told by God "I will make you a god to pharaoh"

In the OT horn was a symbol of power, it is commonly said that his face was glowing, and they covered his face up because the "glory" faded.

 

[LaSorcia]

Well, later on it says that Moses veiled his face due to the radiance/brightness. It doesn't say he tented his head to cover the horns lol.

 

[cloudyday2]

Reminds me of when Moses was told by God "I will make you a god to pharaoh"

In the OT horn was a symbol of power, it is commonly said that his face was glowing, and they covered his face up because the "glory" faded.

...and what better way to symbolize the godlike character of Moses than to give him horns like many of the helmets worn by Egyptian gods?

 

[cloudyday2]

Well, later on it says that Moses veiled his face due to the radiance/brightness. It doesn't say he tented his head to cover the horns lol.

That is true. Of course the Torah was not written in one sitting. It probably started as oral stories, then stories were recorded individually, then somebody united the stories into the Torah, and then Jewish scholars tinkered with the stories to keep them synchronized to politics and theology.

In other words, the veil could have been a story element introduced after the horns had already transformed into radiance. (Or maybe the veil had pointy pockets for the horns )

 

[LoAmmi]

This seems to be another instance where people claim the Jews changed something and I ask why and there's really no good answer to that question. Why would it have to be changed from horns to radiance? The importance of it wasn't so much what happened, but that when he spoke so closely to HaShem he was changed so that people were afraid of it. The significance being that HaShem was so great that being around him changed something. Why would later Jews fear it being horns so much that they invented a meaning to the word?

I'm sorry, but I can't see it being much more than the age-old attack that Jews changed the text when it suited them.

 

[cloudyday2]

This seems to be another instance where people claim the Jews changed something and I ask why and there's really no good answer to that question. Why would it have to be changed from horns to radiance? The importance of it wasn't so much what happened, but that when he spoke so closely to HaShem he was changed so that people were afraid of it. The significance being that HaShem was so great that being around him changed something. Why would later Jews fear it being horns so much that they invented a meaning to the word?

I'm sorry, but I can't see it being much more than the age-old attack that Jews changed the text when it suited them.

One reason to change the horns to radiance would be to eliminate vestiges of Canaanite religion from the Torah. The chief god, Baal, was often symbolized as a calf or bull. The holiness of the horns probably derives from the holiness of Baal. I think "Baal" was a title ("Lord") in addition to a personality. So when Judaism was young, they were essentially claiming that their tribal god Yahweh was the highest of all gods in the Canaanite pantheon. Thus they were declaring Yahweh to be Baal/Lord. The horns came with the job title. Later, the Israelites started trying to discourage idol worship, and the Moses horns became a problem... FWIW that is the theory of one non-historian (i.e. me )

 

[ToBeLoved]

Where would any human being be born with horns?

This seems to be a crazy theory based of words. Moses is a name. Very odd. A name is not always translated words.

 

[LoAmmi]

One reason to change the horns to radiance would be to eliminate vestiges of Canaanite religion from the Torah. The chief god, Baal, was often symbolized as a calf or bull. The holiness of the horns probably derives from the holiness of Baal. I think "Baal" was a title ("Lord") in addition to a personality. So when Judaism was young, they were essentially claiming that their tribal god Yahweh was the highest of all gods in the Canaanite pantheon. Thus they were declaring Yahweh to be Baal/Lord. The horns came with the job title. Later, the Israelites started trying to discourage idol worship, and the Moses horns became a problem... FWIW that is the theory of one non-historian (i.e. me )

What do you mean when we started discouraging idol worship? Worshiping the Golden Calf is in the exact same story. So is the concept of HaShem not having a body or form.

 

[Albion]

The problem with dismissing the idea that Moses really had horns is that we must take the word of the Rabbis. This is like asking Al Capone what the coded entries in his ledgers mean.

But how much sense does thinking Moses had literal horns make?

 

[LoAmmi]

Where would any human being be born with horns?

This seems to be a crazy theory based of words. Moses is a name. Very odd. A name is not always translated words.

Moses (Moshe) comes from the Egyptian drawn from the water. It is actually an Egyptian name originally, though it is now a Jewish name.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Moses (Moshe) comes from the Egyptian drawn from the water. It is actually an Egyptian name originally, though it is now a Jewish name.

Now that makes sense, because Moses was born an Israelite and was put in the basket to be found.

If Moses had horns, it is a MIRACLE of God. No one born with horns since or before. That is +1 for Jesus Christ!

 

[awitch]

If Moses had horns, it is a MIRACLE of God. No one born with horns since or before. That is +1 for Jesus Christ!

Actually, there's this, so -1.
Personally, I like the deities with antlers.

 

[LoAmmi]

Now that makes sense, because Moses was born an Israelite and was put in the basket to be found.

To be found by the daughter of the Pharaoh no less. If anybody has ever seen the movie "The Prince of Egypt", I really love the human focus of it because Pharaoh and Moses would have known each other being brothers by adoption. How much more difficult would that had made Moses's task to know he would be facing off against someone he knew that well? And to know the last plague would kill the child he would have seen as his nephew.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, there's this, so -1.
Personally, I like the deities with antlers.

Don't agree. When Paul had a health issue it is mentioned in the Bible. I believe that Moses having any deformity would have been documented +1 Jesus Christ and MIRACLES!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, there's this, so -1.
Personally, I like the deities with antlers.

First, Moses was not a diety.

Second, your theory is so very far fetched and your meaning of the name seems to be off. Egyptians named him, so it would naturally be an Egyptian meaning.

+1 for Jesus Christ.

 

[cloudyday2]

What do you mean when we started discouraging idol worship? Worshiping the Golden Calf is in the exact same story. So is the concept of HaShem not having a body or form.

Paganism and idolatry was common in Judah and Israel until after Ezra returned from Persia with instructions from Cyrus to build a temple and whip the locals into monotheistic shape. Monotheism was the state religion of Persia, so Cyrus was probably trying to export Zoroastrianism by converting Jewish monolatry into monotheism. That is probably when the current form of the Torah was created from a collection of earlier Jewish religious texts. The Zoroastrian Jews who collected these writings into the current Torah had to remove some of the more obvious traces of Canaanite religion in the process.

 

[LoAmmi]

Paganism and idolatry was common in Judah and Israel until after Ezra returned from Persia with instructions from Cyrus to build a temple and whip the locals into monotheistic shape. Monotheism was the state religion of Persia, so Cyrus was probably trying to export Zoroastrianism by converting Jewish monolatry into monotheism. That is probably when the current form of the Torah was created from a collection of earlier Jewish religious texts. The Zoroastrian Jews who collected these writings into the current Torah had to remove some of the more obvious traces of Canaanite religion in the process.

Evidence that Jews weren't monotheists prior to the Babylonian Exile?