May we discuss Adam & Eve?

Bevlina said:

I dunno ... it just doesn't sound feasable to have a 90 foot Adam, that means Eve would have been almost 90 foot too. Nope ... can't get my mind around that one.

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For us living in today's era doesn't sound feasable because we haven't seen the people of such height and history doesn't record such height but tell me is it impossible for the Creator to Creator such a height without any flaw?

For us living in today's era doesn't sound feasable because we haven't seen the people of such height and history doesn't record such height but tell me is it impossible for the Creator to Creator such a height without any flaw?

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The height of Adam is not in Quran, and as far as hadiths go they are a good source of information and they have many good things, but it is not an infallible source.

Islam said:

Does anyone agree with the story of Adam & Eve as I have interpreted here? What is the Judaic & Christian points of view. Can anyone add to what I've given. There are common stories between the three monotheistic religions and good to see how they compare.

Please not I have contacted Bevlina's (forum administrator) permission before posting this thread. I hope that no one will be offended by anything written here. Happy to compare notes on the subject matter.

When God creates Adam (peace be upon him) the first homo-sapien man, he asks the angels and Iblis (who resides among the angels and is a Jinn), to bow down to Adam (peace be upon him). The reason for this was to show the angels that man was superior to them by virtue of the knowledge that he was given by God. The angels obey, whilst Iblis is proud and disobeys.

30. Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? - whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."
31. And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."
32. They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
33. He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them, God said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
34. And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:30-4

Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord.
Qur’an - Surah al-Kahf (The Cave) 18:50

God asks Iblis why he did not bow down to Adam. Iblis replies that he is better than man. God banishes Iblis. Before Iblis leaves, he asks God’s permission to tempt Adam (peace be upon him) and his descendants to the wrong path. God gives him this ability, buts also mentions that those people who obey Him and worship Him will not be tempted by him, whilst those people who do not obey and worship Him, will.

Henceforth, Iblis becomes Satan (in Arabic Shaytaan). See also verses 2:30-6 and 2:115-9.

12. (God) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He (Satan) said: "I am better than he (Adam): Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
13. (God) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
14. He said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead).
15. He said: Lo! Thou art of those reprieved.
16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
18. (God) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee, - Hell will I fill with you all.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:12-18 See also 38:74-85, 16:98-100.

God test’s Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) by telling them not to eat the fruit from a particular tree in the Garden of Aden (Eden) in heaven. God also warns them not to listen to the whispers of Satan, as he is an avowed enemy of man.

1. Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
2. The King of mankind,
3. The God of mankind,
4. From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper), -
5. Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
6. Among Jinns and among men.
Qur’an - Surah an-Naas (Mankind) 114:1-6

Thus have We appointed unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and jinn who inspire in one another plausible discourse through guile. If thy Lord willed, they would not do so; so leave them alone with their devising;
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:112

Satan whispers to Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) and tells them that if they eat from the tree they will become like angels (i.e. they will always be able to obey and worship God) and will live forever. These were false promises, which he had no power to fulfil. Only God has the power to do these and other things. Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) disobey God and are tempted by Satan and eat the forbidden fruit. God reprimands Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) for their disobedience. See also Qur’anic verses 2:30-6 and 2:120-23.

19. "O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
20. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."
21. And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
22. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
23. They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."
24. (God) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time."
25. He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
26. O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, - that is the best. Such are among the Signs of God, that they may receive admonition!
27. O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:19-27

Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) ask God for forgiveness which is duly granted.

37. Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
38. We said: “Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there come to you guidance from Me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:37-38

God decides to place Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), on earth separately. They both eventually arrive at the Mountain of Mercy (Jabal ar-Rahma) in the Plains of Arafat, approximately 12 miles from Makkah, in Arabia. Both continue in their act of forgiveness from God for their disobedience in the Garden of Aden.

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The idea of Satan bowing down before Adam is not outside of the realm of Christian thinking. It is Paul who states something to the effect that for a time man is made lower than the angels, but his ultimate destiny is to be higher than the angels.

The actual idea that any created being, angel or otherwise, being commanded to woship any but the Most High, however, does appear to be contradict basic monothiestic belief.
However, given that in Christian belief mankind's ultimate destiny is to become One in Christ, to the extent that Trinity expresses the familial relationship that is God, because mankind's destiny is ultimately to abide in the Divine, as the Divine abides in us, these verse do bring out a truth that many Christians hold dear.

IronEagle said:

The height of Adam is not in Quran, and as far as hadiths go they are a good source of information and they have many good things, but it is not an infallible source.

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I understand what you are saying, my next question would be is it an authentic Hadith or a weak Hadith based on the saying of majority of scholars?

Islam said:

Does anyone agree with the story of Adam & Eve as I have interpreted here? .

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The story of Adama and Eve is 100% myth. You would do well to take a razor and razor out Genesis 2:4 - 4:26 out of the text.

That would provide further eveidence to you, due to the smoothness of the transition between Genesis 2:3 and 5:1, that it most certainly was a total scribal addition. 100% MYTH.

Shalom

There are also some traditions that have arisen which say that the reason Iblis could not bow down before man is that his love for God was so great that he could not stand to divert any of his adoration to any but God.

Islam said:

30. Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? - whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

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Is there not a touch of irony in this? God makes man his viceregent, and the angels compare the mischief and shedding of blood that follows with their worship and praises of God's Holy name.

31. And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."
32. They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."

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This compares to the Bible where Adam gives names to the animals. And chief among the beasts was the serpent, who comes across in the Genesis account not as a lowly snake, but before the curse was the most magnificent of the beasts- and yet still a beast nevertheless.

33. He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"

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As a contrast to the Biblical account, this acccount stresses knowledge as what sets man apart.
In Genesis, the contrast is between the most magnificent of the beasts, cunning and something that must be guarded against. Not without guile, knowledge or inteliggence, yet the Serpent operates on the level of instinct.

In contrast, for Adam and Eve, there was yet the choice not to follow what was pleasing to the eye, but to follow God's Word.

Partly as a result of passion for a tempting fruit;
partly due to understandable cowardice when confronted with what could more be described as a dragon, or a lLeviathan than a snake;
partly due to being duped;
and partly due to fear where Adam refrains from speaking out against the serpent in his intimidating temptation of Eve;

Adam makes the unethical choice.

So it is not his greater knowledge and intellgence that is stressed in the Bible. What is stressed is his ability to make the correct ethical choice, to guard the garden, to protect Eve even to the point of laying his life down for her, and his failure to do so.

This the second Adam, Jesus Christ, succeeded in doing. He stood up to Satan's temptation and laid his life down for the second Eve, who Catholic Christians understand to be the Church.

But again, the critical difference for Christians is not knowledge, but faith. It lies in choosing to trust in God even to death, to fear God more than a very frightening Devil and his legion of demons.

34. And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:30-4

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The sin of Satan is indeed pride.
In the temptation of Christ by Satan, the last temptation was when it is Satan that beckons Christ to prostrate himself before Satan.
"Get behind me Satan", Christ replies. this is of course the fitting reply for both man and God.

Fuzzy said:

Oxy2Hydr0 said:

Goliath, was a giant, took almost twenty men to just lift his sword.

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1 Samuel 17:51
"Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith."

David picked up Goliath's sword by himself. Where's the 20?

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Where in the world did you come about to assume I was making reference to the Bible ? Other than you jumping the gun here....lol....I am trying to recollect also were I heard the tradition from. I assume it was an apocrypha I read. Sorry, I am 31 now I am trying to recollect studies from 15 years ago...lol. Maybe someone else can help me out her of what book that in reported in ?

Islam said:

think the idea wasn't for the angels to worship Adam (peace be upon him) but to recognise that he was superior to the angels in knowledge. perhaps some other Muslims on this forum can confirm.

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Allah said for the angels to make Sujood to adam not 'ibadah. Sujood is to acknowledge the superiority of another, and submission of one self.

If you pay attention to the context through out the Quran Iblis ShaytaanirRajeem refuse to make Sujood cause he expressed he felt he was superior to man. He did not make the accusation of Allah commanding him to worship man.

Sujood in the Arabiyyah expressed superiorness to the angless which may also denote the Angels subject to the authority of man.

Islam,

The Christian story of Adam and Eve is a little more detailed than the one that you proposed. We will very briefly go over it; firstly Adam and Eve were created on the fourth day of the creation week about 6000 years ago in the Image of God.

According to Genesis 2:7 we read that God took some dust from the ground and formed a man out of it; He breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and the man began to live. God then placed the man that He had formed into the Garden of Eden that He had planted. In the middle of the Garden God put the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is bad. Man was commanded by God not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, for if he did he would "surely die" (Genesis 2:17). Mankind and the animals were given plants and fruits of all kinds to eat (i.e. they were vegetarians). God then brought the animals and brids to the man "to see what he would name them" (Genesis 2:19).

By this time God realised that out of all the animals, none was a suitable companion to help the man. The LORD God made the man fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, He took out one of the man's ribs and closed up the flesh. He formed a woman out ofthe rib and brought her to him. Then the man said, "At last, here is one of my own kind - bone taken from my bone, and flesh from my flesh. "Woman" is her name because she was taken out of man." That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife, and they become one (Genesis 2:21-24). Notice here we are given what marriage is and why. Genesis 2:25 tells us that they were both naked, but neither were embarrassed.

You should know that at this time, the whole creation was still "very good" with no suffering and no death. It was a perfect place where man had a loving relationship with God and vice versa. Now this picture is almost exactly the opposite to today's world - something must have happened to change this. Guess what? Something did happen. Man rebellion (sinned) or disobeyed God's command not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. You will commonly see the term "the Fall" being used around the forums, the Fall is a reference to the Fall of man through man's disobedience.

Let's continue the story:

Now the serpent was the most cunning animal that the LORD God had made. The serpent asked the woman, "Did God really tell you not to eat fruit from any tree in the garden?"
"We may eat the fruit of any tree in the garden," the woman answered, "except the tree in the middle of it. God told us not to eat the fruit of that tree or even touch it; if we do, we will surely die." (Genesis 3:1-3).

The devil was in the form of the snake at this time. The devil, or Satan, was one of the highest ranking angels in heaven, but he grew hatred toward God and he and many angels started a rebellion in heaven. God kicked them out of heaven and away from His presence to hell and Earth.

The serpent then tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit by telling her that she would not "surely die" and that she will be like God and know what is good and what is bad. The woman thought how wonderful it would be to become wise and she ate it. She also gave some to her husband and he ate it.

As soon as they had eaten it, they were given understanding and realized that they were naked; so they sewed figleaves together and covered themselves. The LORD God then found out what they had done and pronounced His judgment (what Christians call "the Curse").

Death, suffering and decay all started to happen. We started to fall apart and die. Woman started to suffer pains in giving birth, the ground started to produce weeds and thorns and the ground came under a curse. Paul, a great early Christian, tells us that the whole creation is subject to a bondage to decay (2nd law of thermodynamics) and that the whole creation is groaning out in pain because of sin. The Bible also tells us that death is the penalty for disobeying God - enter the selfless sacrfice of our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ who was a perfecet sinless man whom was crucified on a cross - to pay the debt for our sins such that we can come to God with our penalty paid for - but rose three days later to offer etneral life for those who trust in Him.

After God prounces His judgment, He sends Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden to prevent them from getting to the tree of life and living forever.

If you want to read the Genesis creation story, then may I suggest the online Bible version in the New International Version available at: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201-4;&version=31;>.

Now, let's analyze the differences between the Islamic religion and what the Bible has to say about Adam and Eve:

Satan whispers to Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) and tells them that if they eat from the tree they will become like angels (i.e. they will always be able to obey and worship God) and will live forever.

According to the Bible the serpent (Satan) tells Eve that they will be like God and know what is good and what is bad. Initially according to the Christian belief, God created all animals and mankind to live forever - He was sustaining His creation.

God decides to place Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), on earth separately.

So God didn't create Adam and Eve on Earth initially? The Bible says other wise.

Can I ask you a few questions about your religion please?

Why is there suffering and death in the world today? The Bible says that death is the penalty for man's sin.

Also, when were Adam and Eve created?

Why do you say "Peace be upon them"?

And finally, where were they created? If in heaven, when was the universe made? Were the animals also sent to Earth?

Thanks for the answers in advance.

Lastly, in Hebrew Adam means "mankind" and Eve means "mother of all human beings".

With regards to Adam from Islamic religion, that's a huge *****! I've been wondering, let's assume that both Adam and Eve were created at this height (if Eve was normal height it would be impossible for them to have children), how could they get the average range of humans including the so-called Hobbits on the Indonesian islands - not to mention the world's shortest man who comes in a less than a mere metre?

Consider using genetics: the original Islamic Adam and Eve would have to have some gene that is no longer present in the entire human population. Today we have two genes in a simplistic example that determine height: a short gene h and a tall gene H. All children get one gene from their mother and one gene from their father. If, for example, both parents are short and have the hh combinations, then there is absolutely no chance that the child will be tall or even medium sized (hH) because neither parent's have that H gene.

Applying genetics to the discussion about gigantic Adam and Eve:

Assume that they had the really tall genes MM (Massive height) then all of their descendants can only have these MM genes because there is no "short" gene (h) or tall gene (H) in the combination of either parent. Therefore, it is impossible for these ginormous people to produce the wide range of heights that we see in today's population. I realise that this is simplistic, of course, but even people who have HH genes are no taller than three metres...

Delta One said:

Some Differences Between Adam and Eve In Both Books..

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Fasten your seat belts this is going to be a bumpy ride...

Delta One said:

Now, let's analyze the differences between the Islamic religion and what the Bible has to say about Adam and Eve:

Satan whispers to Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) and tells them that if they eat from the tree they will become like angels (i.e. they will always be able to obey and worship God) and will live forever.

According to the Bible the serpent (Satan) tells Eve that they will be like God and know what is good and what is bad. Initially according to the Christian belief, God created all animals and mankind to live forever - He was sustaining His creation.

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How could he (Satan) can or would tell Eve that they will be like God? When the fact is he (Satan) never saw God?

Delta One said:

God decides to place Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), on earth separately.

So God didn't create Adam and Eve on Earth initially? The Bible says other wise.

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Give the verse names so we can investigate what you are talking about, to me it seems like you are mixing to different topics "Creation of Adam and Eve" and "Descent of Adam and Eve"

Delta One said:

Can I ask you a few questions about your religion please?

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Sure if you're asking me?

Bookofknowledge,

How could he (Satan) can or would tell Eve that they will be like God? When the fact is he (Satan) never saw God?

As I said before in my last post that Satan was one of the highest ranking angels and very close to God before He rebelled against God and was sent out of His presence. I also said that he told Eve that she would be like God in that she would know what is good and what is bad. The woman thought how wonderful it would be to become wise and she ate the forbidden fruit.

I hope I cleared up that misunderstanding.

Give the verse names so we can investigate what you are talking about, to me it seems like you are mixing to different topics "Creation of Adam and Eve" and "Descent of Adam and Eve"

Um, the verses in the opening post that had the statement God decides to place Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), on earth separately written under it.

Just wait a minute...

....

24. (God) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time."
25. He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

...from the opening post.

My understanding of the above two verses is that your god created them not in Earth then placed them both on Earth as a "punishment" for their rebellion and hence why we are here. Is that correct?

Sure if you're asking me?

Yeah, okay sure. I'm just curious on what your holy book says about those few questions (I have others, but those are the basic ones). IMO, Islam is probably the closest out of all the other religions to Christianity in it's truth so I'm interested in what it has to say about some things.

Fasten your seat belts this is going to be a bumpy ride...

lol, no I was just pointing out some differences between what the two religions say about Adam and Eve - not debating.

These links contain a pretty good discussion from the Jewish perspective:
http://jewishworldreview.com/0105/fohrman12.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/0105/fohrman11.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1204/fohrman10.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1204/fohrman9.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1204/fohrman8.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1104/fohrman7.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1104/fohrman6.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1104/fohrman5.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1104/fohrman4.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1004/fohrman3.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1004/fohrman2.php3
http://jewishworldreview.com/1004/fohrman1.php3

I used to beleive in Adam and Eve whole heartedly. I was told the story when I was little and beleived in it with a childs innocence. But I've come to the realization in life through experience, illness, spirituality, growth that it is merely a parable or story to explain something that is larger than any human can put there finger too. We are the children and if God gave it to us that easy that this is existance the beginning this is how everything is we would be distraught. It's nothing more than a paralytic story of covering the truth. There are many flaws in the story as well in my opinion. I feel more close to God now that i've let go of MY obbessive beleifs of what my parents told. I question things now.

Delta One said:

How could he (Satan) can or would tell Eve that they will be like God? When the fact is he (Satan) never saw God?

As I said before in my last post that Satan was one of the highest ranking angels and very close to God before He rebelled against God and was sent out of His presence. I also said that he told Eve that she would be like God in that she would know what is good and what is bad. The woman thought how wonderful it would be to become wise and she ate the forbidden fruit.

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Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Satan is not an angel kind though he was one among the high ranking. Angels and Jinns are created differently and my understanding is that Satan is among the Jinn kind.

Though he once had a high position but don't forget he was created by God and was obediant to God untill he choose to disobey God by not prostrating to Adam when God commanded everyone to prostrate.

With regards to Eve getting into the trap of Satan merly because she would be like God in that she would know what is good and what is bad is quite not right because we have to understand the learning ability of Adam and Eve. Did God didn't taught them what they knew not? Didn't she knew there is none comparable to God or did God didn't taught them there is none equal to God?

Delta One said:

Give the verse names so we can investigate what you are talking about, to me it seems like you are mixing to different topics "Creation of Adam and Eve" and "Descent of Adam and Eve"

Um, the verses in the opening post that had the statement God decides to place Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), on earth separately written under it.

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Can you give me the verse number and then is it a Bible verse or is it from Qur'aan?

Delta One said:

24. (God) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time."
25. He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

...from the opening post.

My understanding of the above two verses is that your god created them not in Earth then placed them both on Earth as a "punishment" for their rebellion and hence why we are here. Is that correct?

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Give me the chapter and verse number please, you have given the verse number but not the chapter number...

God decided and told Adam to get down on Earth, it will be a dwelling place for a specified period of time and ye shall be brought back to account. This life on earth is a test not a punishment because God said at the time of Adam's departure from Paradise "There will come to you a guidance from Me, those who accept and follow it shall have nothing to fear or to regret. If this life on earth was a punishment there wouldn't be a paradise as a reward from God and there wouldn't be a Hell as a punishment because we would have received our punishment by living our life on earth...

Delta One said:

lol, no I was just pointing out some differences between what the two religions say about Adam and Eve - not debating.

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Simply pointing is not enough because you have to prove those points by valid reference...

With regards to Eve getting into the trap of Satan merly because she would be like God in that she would know what is good and what is bad is quite not right because we have to understand the learning ability of Adam and Eve.

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Satan was enticing Eve, could it be that he was lying.

Daughter of His said:

Satan was enticing Eve, could it be that he was lying.

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If Satan was lying, he must have lied about something which they didn't knew and my question is didn't God taught Adam & Eve that there is none comparable to God already?

If Adam & Eve knew that there is none comparable to God then Satan wouldn't have dared to use the trick of "them becoming like God" because they would have caught his lie.

So you tell me didn't Adam & Eve knew that there is none comparable to God?

Ever had someone cause you to doubt what you thought you already knew? I think this may be what was going on there.

Well if Satan had a choice in heaven to disobey god, Who was satan's, satan. If your saying he had free will to disobey like eve then satan had sin in heaven. If angels have a choice to sin then they are created with sin as well, so they get a free ticket to jesus christ? But jesus died for mans sins, not angels. Explain to me how satan can be satan with free will in the kingdom of heaven and have the choice to rebel without being created a sinner like us.

Like I said there are so many flaws in the bible of contradictory and things dont add up. I still beleive in Jesus christ I belive in a truth of God still. BUT the only full unquestionable truth about the bible would be God's act of sending a son.

Sure there is more truth to it but it isn't the exact written word of God in my opinion. Many of the people that accounted and wrote the bible are humans just as we are and holy spirited filled humans as there are today, and they make mistakes in the name of God today as they did thousands of years ago.

In my opinion religiion is what crucified jesus to the cross. Religion is a sin like all the rest. Religion was culture, tranditions, religous laws, SELF GRATIFICATION, Arrogance and misguidance.

The pharisees are very religious so called christians that pointed the finger at other christians.

First of all it doesnt matter whether Adam and Eve is total truth or not or who the story goes or revelation, the rapture. The only 100% truth if you beleive should be Jesus Christ died for your sins.

I'm not perfect and I dont care if i drink if it's responsible. I make my decisions and just as I drink is a sin. Anything harmful to your body is sin because it's unhealthy. Sin is purely unhealthy behavior. When a extremem christian feels angry or jumps to judgemnts on other people because of there beleifs that's a sin as well.

And my sins for doing that while I was very narrow minded far outway my sins for having a few drinks now and then.

God's plan isn't measured in details but in beginning and end. God Provided us with Jesus as the one sustaining act of truth.

God provided the moments of truth in begginning and left the details up to humanity on how we wanted to beleive and record and interpret his truthful events, thats how we learn.

To beleeive every word in the bible is the exact written word of God is dangerous, obviously history has proven that. RELIGION I disliket he word very much has showed that thrugh the times in war. More people have died in the name of religion than anything in this world.

And I know THAT is not Gods plan even if he foresees it.

How I live my life is through a personal relationship, MY personal relationship with Jesus and not the bible. I find the bible too dangerous for myself.

My two cents.