May I ask some questions?

[Suzannah]

Dear Friends,

First, I want to thank everyone in here, for the few times I came to ask questions. You have all really helped me! I've also read every thread and every page of this forum, and have enjoyed it all.

I guess I am at a stage in life where I am questioning a lot of things about my walk with Jesus. I am not a great scholar, or a theologian. I'm a pretty simple, bottom line person, and I just love Jesus and try very hard to follow Him.
But now, I am starting to think that I have somehow "missed the boat" and for a sailor, that's pretty serious! :o

I cannot seem to get away from the simple beauty of the art of your church. I know that probably sounds silly, and not very "deep" but I can't help it. I even see these beautiful icons in my dreams when I sleep, sometimes, and they are so excrutiatingly beautiful, but when I wake up, I can't remember enough of it to go to a library and see if I am dreaming of something I have actually seen somewhere. I know that's probably not a healthy basis for investigating something but I can't help it!

Here are my questions to start:

1. Does the Orthodox church recognize other schismatics (Protestants, RCC) as "Christians"? I've read a few threads that have posters who say a personal opinion of "yes", and haven't really seen any "no" but I was wondering about the official position of the Church, if there is one?

2. There is one Orthodox church in my area, Greek Orthodox. I would love to go there and just see, but I am afraid of intruding or ??? Is it open to visitors? Should I call first and ask? I'm also afraid that if it's okay for me to go there, that I will do something or say something that is wrong.

3. I can't help but notice that the Unorthodox Theology section is full of mainly Protestants. Is there a position of your Church that deals with some of these issues such as modern day cults, and heretical doctrine? Example: I didn't even know what "preterism" was until I came to CF and it took me awhile to figure it all out from all the posts.....does your Church have an official position on such matters?

Thank you all very much for letting me come here and post!
Love, In Christ,
Suzannah

 

[Philip]

1. Does the Orthodox church recognize other schismatics (Protestants, RCC) as "Christians"? I've read a few threads that have posters who say a personal opinion of "yes", and haven't really seen any "no" but I was wondering about the official position of the Church, if there is one?

There is a classic quotation from the Metropolitan of Moscow: The walls we build on earth do not reach to heaven. We know where the Church is, but we do not know where it is not. (This is from my memory. I am sure that one of my brothers can be more precise).

Roughly speaking, if you accept the Nicene Creed, you are Christian.

2. There is one Orthodox church in my area, Greek Orthodox. I would love to go there and just see, but I am afraid of intruding or ??? Is it open to visitors? Should I call first and ask? I'm also afraid that if it's okay for me to go there, that I will do something or say something that is wrong.

You would be welcome. You might want to call to see if the Liturgy is said in English. Many Greek parishes have both a Greek and an English service. This page will provide some info to make you feel more comfortable.

3. I can't help but notice that the Unorthodox Theology section is full of mainly Protestants. Is there a position of your Church that deals with some of these issues such as modern day cults, and heretical doctrine? Example: I didn't even know what "preterism" was until I came to CF and it took me awhile to figure it all out from all the posts.....does your Church have an official position on such matters?

When confronted by heterodox or heretical doctrines, we look to those Christians who came before us. We look to the Faith that has been practiced always and everywhere by all.

Thank you all very much for letting me come here and post!

Thank you for your interest.

 

[Oblio]

You might also check www.oca.org & www.antiochian.org for parishes. These two jusrisdictions (same Orthodox Church) tend to have more English language services in the US.

 

[Photini]

Suzannah,

I am so happy for you! I felt alot of the same things when I first started looking into the Orthodox Church. You know how it feels to stand at the bottom of a skyscraper, and look up at it...that's often how I've felt. There is so much wisdom and spiritual wealth in Orthodoxy that I was in awe. I am happy and peaceful knowing that now I am inside that skycraper...starting my way up the stairs.

The Iconography and Architecture in Orthodoxy is beautiful, and it is also meaningful. Maybe someone can recommend a good book on Iconography for you. I haven't yet read a book on that subject...maybe it is time.

BTW, what area are you from? Who knows. Maybe one of us is closer than you might think.

 

[Oblio]

Maybe someone can recommend a good book on Iconography for you.

The Meaning of Icons - Ouspensky, Lossky

 

[Philip]

The Iconography and Architecture in Orthodoxy is beautiful, and it is also meaningful. Maybe someone can recommend a good book on Iconography for you. I haven't yet read a book on that subject...maybe it is time.

Praying with Icons

 

[Suzannah]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies! Philip, I appreciated your notes!
Oblio: I checked out the links and there is so much information there....it will take me awhile to absorp all of it. Thank you so much for sharing that with me!
I truly am seeking and questioning and I just don't know where to start.

Photini, I deeply appreciate you saying that you can "relate". It helps to know that other people feel the same emotions and have the same thoughts. Icons seem to me to contain so much mystery and I want to know what it is! When I was a sailor, I was fortunate enough to go to Cypress and also to Greece. Even then, those years ago, I remember wanting so much to go to an Orthodox church service and to see and understand. But I wasn't brave enough! I regret it now.

I did go to this church in Piraeus on a Thursday and I was amazed that it was open to the public. I got a very nice tour of the church from the priest and he was very kind to me. But I was too young and too shy to ask my questions and I was embarrassed that I didn't know things that I felt I should know if I'm a Christian. Now that I am older, I see how foolish I was and I kick myself! I was THERE and I still did not "see". I do remember feeling awe, that I was in a place very close to the time of the Apostles, and probably their first descendents!!! That feeling was almost overwhelming and that was when I began questioning. Over the years, I got distracted by family and all that...but here I am now.

Am I making sense???

 

[Philip]

Am I making sense???

Plenty.

You might also try Orthodox Info. It was plenty on information, including a section dedicated to answering questions from inquirers. We will be happy to answer any questions you have as well.

 

[Oblio]

Another very good site is by Bishop Alexander of the Russian Orthodox Church.

2. There is one Orthodox church in my area, Greek Orthodox. I would love to go there and just see, but I am afraid of intruding or ??? Is it open to visitors? Should I call first and ask? I'm also afraid that if it's okay for me to go there, that I will do something or say something that is wrong.

Orthodox love to share their faith and welcome visitors, we take seriously the Great Commision. Because of unfortunate events of the last century, Orthodoxy is quite hidden in this country and often in many places the only parish (if there is one) will be a more ethnic one and this can be intimidating to inquirers.

The main thing that you should not do is receive Communion. If someone asks you if you are Orthodox, it is not because they are nosy or that we are a secret club but because the Priest needs to be informed of who you are prior you receiving Communion. Also, unlike most Protestant churches you cannot enter the Altar area (usually separated by an icon screen) and should not walk on the raised area in front.

I cannot seem to get away from the simple beauty of the art of your church. I know that probably sounds silly, and not very "deep" but I can't help it. I even see these beautiful icons in my dreams when I sleep, sometimes, and they are so excrutiatingly beautiful, but when I wake up, I can't remember enough of it to go to a library and see if I am dreaming of something I have actually seen somewhere. I know that's probably not a healthy basis for investigating something but I can't help it!

Actually it is not silly at all. I recall after my first visit that I kept seeing the same icon in my dreams and hearing the hymns that were sung that day. In Orthodoxy, the Icons, Hymnography, even the church architecture are (like Holy Scripture) part of the word of God. In reality, you are being drawn to it for the same reason that you are drawn to Scripture.

 

[Oblio]

I did go to this church in Piraeus on a Thursday and I was amazed that it was open to the public. I got a very nice tour of the church from the priest and he was very kind to me. But I was too young and too shy to ask my questions and I was embarrassed that I didn't know things that I felt I should know if I'm a Christian. Now that I am older, I see how foolish I was and I kick myself! I was THERE and I still did not "see". I do remember feeling awe, that I was in a place very close to the time of the Apostles, and probably their first descendents!!! That feeling was almost overwhelming and that was when I began questioning. Over the years, I got distracted by family and all that...but here I am now.

Am I making sense???

Perfect sense. My wife and I were on a cruise/tour a few years ago (while we were Baptists) and got to visit the Monastery of Osios Loukas near Delphi. We were both struck with awe and wonder and literally felt the presence of the Holy Spirit while we were there. We really didn't understand much of it, or have time to take it all in but a seed was planted in both of our hearts. Quite some time later, back in the States, through events that I am sure were guided by the hand of God, those seeds were given a chance to grow and sprouted into the faith we embrace today.

 

[Moros]

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[Mod hat]
Cool it Osel
[/hat]

 

[Suzannah]

so that I don't clutter up your board.

1. I have been reading all the info on all the websites you posted. I also have a book, apparently written by an RCC about the Church fathers. I'm getting confused. A few things don't square with what I read on the web. (Example: Origen ends up revered by the RC Church, but he is apparently a heretic according to Orthodox? Is there a basic book written for people like me, by an Orthodox author, that gives the earliest history of the fathers and the saints ?

2. I understand the issue of the Filioque. Actually, I agree with Orthodoxy. Is this the main cause of the schism? Or was it other things also?
Is there any other part of the Nicene Creed that Orthodox say is wrong? I really need to know this, because I agree with the Nicene Creed entirely, except for the Filioque. If there are other problems with it, then I guess I'd better get it straight, pretty quick!

Thank you all so much for your help and for letting me know I am not crazy. Oblio: I was raised in Baptist missionary churches in Africa and the Middle East so I know exactly where you are coming from in your conversion to Orthodox. I probably have all the same issues.

 

[Moros]

{edited out}

[Mod hat]
Cool it Osel
[/hat]

??

 

[Reader Nilus]

My first visit to an Orthodox Church was to a Russian Church whose service was all in Slovnic. I was very nervous, which I did not need to be. The people came up and made me feel very welcome, and indeed told me I missed some good eats at their bazaar earlier in the day. Greeks are very friendly.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Suzannah]

Thank you Jeffthefinn, for your encouragement! Yes, I am planning to go to the Greek Orthodox service. I called them today and the man was very, very nice! He told me they had a place just for visitors. That makes me feel like they are saving me a seat!

 

[Photini]

Is there a basic book written for people like me, by an Orthodox author, that gives the earliest history of the fathers and the saints ?

I have to admit, I haven't read the whole thing, but I have a book that gives a good history. I've struggled through it, because history isn't my forte so to speak. It is kind of dry unless you have a great interest in history.
It is called Historical Road of Eastern Orthodoxy. I'm sure others will have recommendations too.

2. I understand the issue of the Filioque. Actually, I agree with Orthodoxy. Is this the main cause of the schism? Or was it other things also?

There had already been friction between East and West, perhaps the filioque was the "straw that broke the camel's back."

Is there any other part of the Nicene Creed that Orthodox say is wrong?

Nope. The filioque is not a part of the Nicene Creed.

Thank you all so much for your help and for letting me know I am not crazy.

At least, you're no more crazy than the rest of us....no more, no less.

 

[Suzannah]

It is all correct except for the part where it says: " We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],:"
My opinion: It should say "who proceeds from the Father." not "and the Son". Am I correct?

Is this the only creed that is required in Orthodoxy?

 

[nicodemus]

Suzannah,

It is always encouraging to see someone wanting to experience Christ more deeply. My wife & I are both converts to Orthodoxy (me from Protestantism, my wife from the Indian religion Jainism). I can say with all honesty that it is the best decision both of us have ever made. Also, becoming Orthodox isn't the end of the journey, only the beginning. There is such rich depth, wisdom, reverence in the 2,000 year history of Orthodox Christianity.

May God Bless your journey!

 

[MariaRegina]

It is all correct except for the part where it says: " We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],:"
My opinion: It should say "who proceeds from the Father." not "and the Son". Am I correct?

Is this the only creed that is required in Orthodoxy?

Dear Suzannah:

You are absolutely correct. The original Nicene Creed (381 AD) did not contain the filioque. It was used locally at first only in Spain by a decision of the Council of Toledo (675 AD). It was officially added by the Catholic Church in 1014 when it was mandated by the Roman patriarchate in a unilateral decision which did not include the other four patriarchates. This is why it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

A simple to understand book that goes into Church history is The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware (Bishop Kallistos Ware). It is available through Amazon.com.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140146563/qid=1073785085//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/104-1696445-5490329?v=glance&s=books&n=507846