May I ask some questions?

[Oblio]

We see in Scripture that we are surrounded by the Saints who have gone before us (Heb 11-12) ending with

Hebrews 12:1 RSVA Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,

and that Christians are to pray for each other. We also know that the Saints are alive in Christ and do not experience soul sleep for St. Paul wishes to pass on to be with Christ in the opening of Phillipians:

Philippians 1:22-23 RSVA (22) If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. (23) I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.


Holy Scripture also attest to the prayers of the Saints on our behalf:

2 Maccabees 15:11-14 RSVA (11) He armed each of them not so much with confidence in shields and spears as with the inspiration of brave words, and he cheered them all by relating a dream, a sort of vision, which was worthy of belief. (12) What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. (13) Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. (14) And Onias spoke, saying, "This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God."

 

[Suzannah]

Oblio! Okay! I can go with that!
so all the saints are not "asleep" in Christ, as the rest of us non-Saints, would be "asleep" until the Day of Judgement? Is that right? They are "awake" with God and therefore they hear our prayers?
Yes?

Also, I use the NASB version. In fact, a discussion about that is how I "met" the members of this forum. So, should I obtain an "orthodox" bible in order to more closely study with you? Example: I dont' have "Maccabees" in my version?

 

[Alfred M]

Suzannah,

Hope you do not mind me putting my two cents worth in, but I am a convert with an Episcopal/Baptist background. My family (myself, wife, and two sons) converted in 1998. I too had concerns before my conversion about this very subject. During our inquirer's sessions with our priest, I really came to realize what it means by our God being a God of the living. We are truly surrounded by a cloud of saints and their prayers are mighty before God.

I may not be able to explain it very well but there seems to be a difference when I communicate with a saint in prayer. I feel I am not praying "to" them but am simply asking them to pray to Christ our Lord on my behalf...much the same as I would pray for you and your needs/concerns. Then "we" (myself and those praying for me) are going "to" Christ in prayer. This is how I approach my prayers to the Theotokos, my Patron Saint, or other saint I may ask to intercede on my behalf.

The saints are alive and with us...and although a strange feeling at first, I now find it completely natural to seek their prayers...and that is a wonderful thing!!!

Hope you can understand my ramblings...I usually have a hard time putting my feelings into words.

In the love of our Saviour,

Alfred, a sinner

 

[Philip]

Can you please show me where they are? I don't remember the "cloud of witnesses" verse so I'm a blank page and teachable!

See Oblio's post about the cloud of witnesses.

Consider these passages:

Psalms 103:20-21
Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word!
Bless the LORD, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will! ​

Doesn't this Psalm suggest that the angels in heaven can hear us?

Jeremiah 15:1
Then the LORD said to me, "Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people. Send them out of my sight, and let them go! ​

God points out that in this case, he would not listen to the prayers of Moses and Samuel. To me, this suggests that there are times He does listen to them.

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.​

To me this suggests that the angels will pray to God to protect these little ones.

Matthew 15:34-36
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "E'lo-i, E'lo-i, la'ma sabach-tha'ni?" which means, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
And some of the bystanders hearing it said, "Behold, he is calling Eli'jah."
And one ran and, filling a sponge full of vinegar, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, "Wait, let us see whether Eli'jah will come to take him down." ​

Where did these bystanders get the idea that Christ was calling on Elijah? I submit that it was common practice to seek the help of the Prophets.

 

[Oblio]

No, we all (by the Grace of God's mercy) fall asleep in Him. This is NOT the same as soul sleep which states that at death our soal enters into a inactive sleep. The term fall asleep is (IIRC) used to distinguish from death, for the soul passes from this life to live an eternal life with Christ. So rather than speak of death, we say that we have falled asleep.

You can pick up a nice set of free Bible Study software at www.e-sword.net. Once you get the basic download, Philip or I can email you the RSVA, Revised Standard Version with the complete Scriptures that will load into it.

 

[Philip]

Also, I use the NASB version. In fact, a discussion about that is how I "met" the members of this forum. So, should I obtain an "orthodox" bible in order to more closely study with you? Example: I dont' have "Maccabees" in my version?

Do you have E-Sword? If not, download it. (It's free). I can provide you with a file with the Deuterocanons.

 

[Reader Nilus]

I have read God's Revelation to the Human Heart by Seraphim Rose. It is a talk he gave at UC Santa Cruz in 1981. Santa Cruz at the time was a hub of new age thinkers and occult type of activity. An amazing book.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Suzannah]

Dear Alfred, I do not mind at all! I'm a Baptist, ("First Emmanuel" , American Baptists of the USA to be exact). I appreciate very much your Christian love and willingness to share your personal "worry" with me. I understand now much better thanks to your letter.

Dear Philip:
Thank you for sharing the Scripture! Yes, I would agree with you on all counts!


Next question: How does one decide who their "patron" saint is? I'm a former sailor and I care very deeply about those upon the sea, and another person suggested St. Nicholas, but a "sailor" is not all that I am. How does this translate to a person's experience? Is it the totality of your life that you "choose" a patron?

 

[Reader Nilus]

The only complete Bible that Orthodox use is the 1973 edition of the New Oxford Annotated Revised Standard Version. The complete Bible is also in the NRSV which is prohibited in liturgical usage in the Orthodox Church in America.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Philip]

Next question: How does one decide who their "patron" saint is? I'm a former sailor and I care very deeply about those upon the sea, and another person suggested St. Nicholas, but a "sailor" is not all that I am. How does this translate to a person's experience? Is it the totality of your life that you "choose" a patron?

I chose mine with the help of my spiritual father. We discussed it while I was a catechumen (someone preparing to formally enter the Church). Often, your patron is selected for you by a sponser, parent, etc.

I should point out that most Orthodox have several "favorite" Saints whose intercessions they seek.

 

[Reader Nilus]

St Brendan the Navigator is the sailor among the Saints!

A Hymn to St Brendan the Navigator

Let the brothers and sisters now sing
Of the holy life of Brendan;
In an old melody
Let it be kept in song.

Loving the jewel of chastity,
He was the father of monastics.
He shunned the choir of the world;
Now he sings among the angels.

Let him pray that we may be saved
As we sail upon this sea.
Let him quickly aid the fallen
Oppressed with burdensome sin.

God the Father; Most High King
Breast-fed by a virgin mother;
Holy Spirit: when They will it,
Let Them feed us divine honey.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Photini]

Next question: How does one decide who their "patron" saint is? I'm a former sailor and I care very deeply about those upon the sea, and another person suggested St. Nicholas, but a "sailor" is not all that I am. How does this translate to a person's experience? Is it the totality of your life that you "choose" a patron?

LoL, my patron Saint (Photini) kind of chose me. A few weeks before my Baptism, stories about her, her name, etc., just kept coming up. And I saw an Icon of her, and someone told me that I look like her. I just accepted that this is my patron. And I feel very blessed by her. (BTW, St. Photini is the Samaritan woman by the well that Christ revealed Himself as the Messiah to. She was later martyred by being beaten and cast into a well.)

 

[Orthosdoxa]

My priest picked St. Katherine for me. He said that I'm a lot like her - headstrong, liked to debate, and had to have all my questions answered down to the tiniest letter before I'd believe something!

FWIW, I think your questions are WONDERFUL! I came to Orthodoxy, from a very strong Baptist background, in a similar manner - I found some Orthodox on the web and whipped their tails with questions. (One jokes that the stock in Tylenol doubled after he met me....)... but it's the greatest journey one can ever take. Frightening, wonderful, and sometimes downright painful... but you will never regret it!

I don't get on here too much, but after seeing all this I'm going to pop in here more often. This is great! And everyone is doing a wonderful job of answering your questions. That's one of the things about Orthodoxy that really knocked my socks off. I got so tired of people arguing what this or that passage meant and never coming to a consensus. Then I find the Church and see that while there have been troubling times, there has essentially been agreement for 2000 years! Praise God!

Kat

 

[Suzannah]

properly baptised in the Orthodox Church yet?


I am truly searching for God's will. I am also searching for Jesus' will in my life. I don't pretend that I have done all the "studying" or that I have properly answered all of "life's questions". But I see very clearly, that God is calling me to a deeper faith than that of "orthodox Protestantism" and that I am quite frankly, not His until I have done as He asks.
Please answer truthfully: am I irreverent or disrespectful if I "change" icons on this board, even though I have not been baptised?

 

[MariaRegina]

Suzannah,

I just asked that question to Erwin in our Taverna.

 

[Suzannah]

A thought has just been brought up in the Catholic Forum. A person there said that if I was "baptised int he name of the Trinity" that I was already a member of the "Church". Is this the same view of the Orthodox? I was indeed baptised in the name of the Trinity. The Baptists believe in this doctrine wholeheartedly. What is the position of the Orthodox on this????
(I am astounded by this "revelation". As a protestant, I was always told that the Catholic "world" would see me as apostate. Am I wrong????_)

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, the SCOBA churches recognize a Trinitarian Baptism wherever it is performed.

Antiochian, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Ukranian and Serbian Orthodox all belong to SCOBA.

SCOBA = Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops in America

 

[Suzannah]

Does this mean that my "baptism" although performed in a Protestant Baptist church/tradition, is recognized by the Orthodox church? I'm sorry for asking so many questions. But I am absolutely devastated by the knowledge that I have been "kept" from my "catholic" bretheren! I am very angry that they kept this knowlege from me!

 

[MariaRegina]

Baptism by a Catholic or a Protestant minister is recognized by the Orthodox Church as long as it is not done by the JW or Mormons.

 

[Suzannah]

Elizabeth: please forgive my ignorance: does this mean it has to be "proved" by certificate? I have no certificate because it was done by a military "Baptist" chaplain in a foriegn country in 1978? (Iran).
Please help me understand more fully. I was never baptised by any JW or Mormon chaplain.